Anyone think the console forum is too heavily moderated?

[j^aws]

...
I know I remember sonic and jvd promised to give explanations to why they lock a thread not THAT long ago, but they never really committed to that promise. They wouldn't have to write a whole shakespeare theatre play about it, just a couple lines explaining. This locking with no reason given however REALLY has to stop. Not at least because it's frustrating and aggravating for the topic starters when they try to get a nice discussion going and then there's a lock on the thread all of a sudden without any flaming or anything, and no reason given.

I agree.



It makes a mockery of any feedback given to the forum by people who actually give a damn.

Excuses of not enough time for this is not good enough IMO. Especially when mods can happily post away in other threads.

I've been here over a year and in that time the same complaints are made, the same solutions are proposed and we still hear the same complaints.

Sorry but if this was a one-off, people give the benefit of the doubt. When it it is continually repeated, you have to ask questions...

 

[jvd]

Excuses of not enough time for this is not good enough IMO. Especially when mods can happily post away in other threads.

Give a solution to a thread in which a few people constantly flame away and even with a mod deleting the posts constantly they continue to post in that thread .

What would be the solution ?

You seem to be able to complain yet offer no ideas on a solution .

Does taking time to sit down and explain well blah blah blah is trolling and you don't see it all because we've constantly deleted posts by x person but they keep posting and we can't watch the forum every second of the day . And if the posts aren't deleted more people will take them and the thread will spin very out of controll very quickly each time we lock a thread for these reasons ?

Does doing that suddenly stop these trollers from posting ? Does it stop flames and out of controll posts ?

 

[j^aws]

Excuses of not enough time for this is not good enough IMO. Especially when mods can happily post away in other threads.

Give a solution to a thread in which a few people constantly flame away and even with a mod deleting the posts constantly they continue to post in that thread .

What would be the solution ?

You seem to be able to complain yet offer no ideas on a solution .

Solution was provided previously and you agreed to it. Not everyone can see why threads are locked, even if it's immediately obvious to others. When you lock threads, you provide a reason why and name and shame people if required. They can then discuss it in PM if the still have issues.

Does taking time to sit down and explain well blah blah blah is trolling and you don't see it all because we've constantly deleted posts by x person but they keep posting and we can't watch the forum every second of the day . And if the posts aren't deleted more people will take them and the thread will spin very out of controll very quickly each time we lock a thread for these reasons ?

See above. If the time invested in executing the above hasn't happened, then people will not get the message.

Does doing that suddenly stop these trollers from posting ? Does it stop flames and out of controll posts ?

See above.

Also, not being able to ban anyone is being exploited by many trolls. It's so obvious, it makes me cringe.

Would you have a party and leave your front door open to complete strangers without the ability to escort them out when they get drunk and start trashing your house?

 

[jvd]

Solution was provided previously and you agreed to it. Not everyone can see why threads are locked, even if it's immediately obvious to others. When you lock threads, you provide a reason why and name and shame people if required. They can then discuss it in PM if the still have issues.

I have allways said I would try adn post reasons and sometimes I do . Sometimes I don't .

However posting why a thread is locked isn't a solution to stoping the flames . NOne of that works .

See above. If the time invested in executing the above hasn't happened, then people will not get the message.

Once again providing reasons does nothing to prevent the trolling or stoping the trolling . All it does is reduce time spent moderating other threads . And yes at night i do spend alot of time here . But during the week day and alot on weekends I'm not around alot during the day and thus when I lock during the day at work or on my way out to do something I don't have time to give a reason which doesn't solve any problems and in using that time for something trival like posting this person trolled. I could be stoping or cleaning up another flame fest .

Also, not being able to ban anyone is being exploited by many trolls. It's so obvious, it makes me cringe.

ANd yet the only option is to lock the thread . So in the end the thread is locked and with or with out a reason doesn't change the fact that its closed and if I waited till i had time to locked the thread with reason it could have spun out of control and into a 20 page flame fest

Would you have a party and leave your front door open to complete strangers without the ability to escort them out when they get drunk and start trashing your house?

I would kick them out . HOwever this is not my house . This is a friends house and I do whats in my power . I will tell them to stop and do my best to stop the trouble after they tsstart it . However I don't have the power to expell them .

So really your asking something that isn't in my power to do .

 

[j^aws]

Solution was provided previously and you agreed to it. Not everyone can see why threads are locked, even if it's immediately obvious to others. When you lock threads, you provide a reason why and name and shame people if required. They can then discuss it in PM if the still have issues.

I have allways said I would try adn post reasons and sometimes I do . Sometimes I don't .

However posting why a thread is locked isn't a solution to stoping the flames . NOne of that works .

See above. If the time invested in executing the above hasn't happened, then people will not get the message.

Once again providing reasons does nothing to prevent the trolling or stoping the trolling . All it does is reduce time spent moderating other threads . And yes at night i do spend alot of time here . But during the week day and alot on weekends I'm not around alot during the day and thus when I lock during the day at work or on my way out to do something I don't have time to give a reason which doesn't solve any problems and in using that time for something trival like posting this person trolled. I could be stoping or cleaning up another flame fest .

Also, not being able to ban anyone is being exploited by many trolls. It's so obvious, it makes me cringe.

ANd yet the only option is to lock the thread . So in the end the thread is locked and with or with out a reason doesn't change the fact that its closed and if I waited till i had time to locked the thread with reason it could have spun out of control and into a 20 page flame fest

It's a matter of cause and effect.

The cause,

I have allways said I would try adn post reasons and sometimes I do . Sometimes I don't .

Exactly what Guden and I are saying. The promise hasn't been kept. And the effect is what's being complained about.

Issues of time keep arising, suggesting that mods lack time or there are not enough of them. The solution speaks for itself...

Would you have a party and leave your front door open to complete strangers without the ability to escort them out when they get drunk and start trashing your house?

I would kick them out . HOwever this is not my house . This is a friends house and I do whats in my power . I will tell them to stop and do my best to stop the trouble after they tsstart it . However I don't have the power to expell them .

So really your asking something that isn't in my power to do .

When executing the above fails, as a last resort, you ban. The fact that you can't ban is obvious, so is the solution...

 

[jvd]

Exactly what Guden and I are saying. The promise hasn't been kept. And the effect is what's being complained about.

Issues of time keep arising, suggesting that mods lack time or there are not enough of them. The solution speaks for itself...

THe promise is the try . I have tried and as I've said I can't allways or don't allways have time .

The cause is the constant flaming . Not that we don't allways give reasons why we are locking the threads .

The effect is less threads staying open when they should be locked and less flame wars persisting .

When executing the above fails, as a last resort, you ban. The fact that you can't ban is obvious, so is the solution...

The fact that banning or not banning is not in my power and is a solution that doesn't exist is a problem that you don't seem to understand . Your very good at telling people whats what , the problem is you don't listen when people are telling you that what your saying isn't being done not because we don't realise that it would stop alot of problems . But because we do not have the power to do these things .

There are posters that no longer exist on these forums like deadmeat and chap because I followed each of thier posts and deleted them on site . I have done this with opa opa since he started the raciest posts of his .

This is very time consuming . Yet I do it so there are less flames on the forum . Yet it doesn't seem to matter because all you want is a reason why a thread with trolling in it is locked .

Seems like a waste of time when there are other things that actually make a diffrence on the forum that can be done in the smae time .

 

[j^aws]

Exactly what Guden and I are saying. The promise hasn't been kept. And the effect is what's being complained about.

Issues of time keep arising, suggesting that mods lack time or there are not enough of them. The solution speaks for itself...

THe promise is the try . I have tried and as I've said I can't allways or don't allways have time .

The cause is the constant flaming . Not that we don't allways give reasons why we are locking the threads .

The effect is less threads staying open when they should be locked and less flame wars persisting .

I've bolded as stated earlier, the cause. Because it's not being done, through the lack of time or the lack of mods. It's a start. We've been here before and this was suggested and agreed upon. The complaint is that it's not being executed. I'm not picking on anyone in particular nor this being the only reason. People have complained before and solutions were proposed that are not being executed and is what Guden and I are complaining about.

When executing the above fails, as a last resort, you ban. The fact that you can't ban is obvious, so is the solution...

The fact that banning or not banning is not in my power and is a solution that doesn't exist is a problem that you don't seem to understand . Your very good at telling people whats what , the problem is you don't listen when people are telling you that what your saying isn't being done not because we don't realise that it would stop alot of problems . But because we do not have the power to do these things .

Yes I like to think I'm good at telling people what's what as I do this for a living. I'm a Project Manager. And yes, when problems are identified, solutions are provided and I make sure they get executed. I've provided solutions, but it's not my job to execute them. I'm merely pointing out that what was agreed to earlier is not being executed.

And you cannot say it's not effective because it was never fully executed after agreeing to do this. If it's a lack of time/resources then it needs escalation to appropriate authority. Who ever has authority needs to do what's required. I'm providing my feedback...and pointing out that we've been here several times before...

There are posters that no longer exist on these forums like deadmeat and chap because I followed each of thier posts and deleted them on site . I have done this with opa opa since he started the raciest posts of his .

This is very time consuming . Yet I do it so there are less flames on the forum . Yet it doesn't seem to matter because all you want is a reason why a thread with trolling in it is locked .

Seems like a waste of time when there are other things that actually make a diffrence on the forum that can be done in the smae time .

I'm not picking on one mod jvd, and I know it's a thankless and time consuming job. And when you guys do it right, it's great. But as I said, it's not a one-off and the complaints get repeated, the same solutions get repeatedly proposed and the same complaints get repeated because the solutions are NOT executed. Which is my point, we keep coming back here because the solutions are never FULLY executed. And no, a half-attempt is not good enough, IMO.

So this is my complaint and whoever has the authority needs to address it or we'll be back here again and again and again. And frankly what's the point of feedback if nothing is achieved through it and we ultimately come full-circle time after time because the problems don't really get addressed? The solutions are plain to see...

Yes the community needs to address some issues as Neeyik has addressed recently...but lack of banning is laughable, and resource issues can be addressed.

 

[jvd]

I've bolded as stated earlier, the cause. Because it's not being done, through the lack of time or the lack of mods. It's a start. We've been here before and this was suggested and agreed upon. The complaint is that it's not being executed. I'm not picking on anyone in particular nor this being the only reason. People have complained before and solutions were proposed that are not being executed and is what Guden and I are complaining about.

THe problem is this is not a problem . Locking threads with problems in them is a good thing . Complaining because the mods have other things to do than to point out mostly obvious problems is pointless .

You still haven't given me a reason why giving a reason of locking a thread will stop flaming .

If its not stoping flaming and it just wasting time that can be use to moderate the forum to me its not a important enough to do when i'm in a rush . What would u rather have . Me lock 3 threads that needs to be locked / deleted a few offensive or trolling posts . Or locking / deleting 1 of these and giving a reason ?

Which is more important ?

Yes I like to think I'm good at telling people what's what as I do this for a living. I'm a Project Manager. And yes, when problems are identified, solutions are provided and I make sure they get executed. I've provided solutions, but it's not my job to execute them. I'm merely pointing out that what was agreed to earlier is not being executed.

You have not given one solution that hasn't been discused and ruled out for other reasons already .

As for this agreement . It was never agreeded opon . THe only thing stated is that we would try . NOt that we will do . Trying and giving a reason in each post is a diffrent thing .

This isn't a job . This is what I do around my job and life . IF you wish to pay me my current salery then you can tell me what to do and I will do it . Till then the only person who tells me what to do is dave esp when it doesn't help stop the reason i'm modding the forum . Which this thing that your complaing about does not do . Its useless .

And you cannot say it's not effective because it was never fully executed after agreeing to do this. If it's a lack of time/resources then it needs escalation to appropriate authority. Who ever has authority needs to do what's required. I'm providing my feedback...and pointing out that we've been here several times before...

What you propose has no impact on the actual problems in the forum .

Explain to me how giving a reason why a thread is locked will stop people from flaming and trolling . Explain .

Your feed back is great. Its nothing new and your feedack is not addressing or giving ideas to fix the problem which is trolling .

You have failed to give any reason why leaving a reason for locking a thread will stop flaming .
The reason why you failed is because it wont stop the flaming . It will only waste the mods time .

Yes locking a thread with a reason is not a bad thing and when we have time we do it . However this is not required and I don't see why it should .

I'm not picking on one mod jvd, and I know it's a thankless and time consuming job. And when you guys do it right, it's great. But as I said, it's not a one-off and the complaints get repeated, the same solutions get repeatedly proposed and the same complaints get repeated because the solutions are NOT executed. Which is my point, we keep coming back here because the solutions are never FULLY executed. And no, a half-attempt is not good enough, IMO.

No your not . Your complaing about all mods who try thier best and have real jobs and or go to school . As i've said locking threads stops the flaming . Leaving notes as to why esp when its obvious is not going to fix anything .

Your suloution is not a solution to anything . It was never said it would be fully executed . ALl you complaing is just for the sake of complaing .

Yes the community needs to address some issues as Neeyik has addressed recently...but lack of banning is laughable, and resource issues can be addressed.

Its only a lack of ban rights . If sonic and I had ban rights over the console section of the forum . We can send each other a pm about the people in question . Talk about it , see if we agree that they need to be banned and go ahead with it . In some cases like opa opa he would be banned as soon as he posted the first rascist post .

What your complaining about doesn't

a) stop the trolling

b) save a dead post

c) prevent future threads from being flamed .

So explain to me what is so important about leaving a note about why a thread is locked ?

 

[Gubbi]

All IMO....

Mods are doing a good job in the console forum.

The signal to noise ratio would be (even more) appalling due to the specualtion/rumour/redundant-threads in there were it not for the locking of completely useless threads.

Cheers
Gubbi

 

[Sonic]

Ok, if it will mean that much for us to give a reason why we lock threads then I see no reason why not too. A simple post explaining why is sufficient. The ODA thread was explained to the people who complained to me in pm's.

I'll start to give the reasons why threads are locked as I've done in the past. And just like in the past, if anyone feels it is unjust then pm me with reasons explaining it. This is how it used to be before the influx of E3 when we started seeing trolls enter the console forum in hordes.

Theere are only a few solutions to the problem. Banning the offending posters, or lock the forum again for a few weeks or a month. Either situation may help.

But I will again stress. Threads will probably be locked as often as now if the quality does not retain a level that is acceptable. We will give you those reasons.

 

[digitalwanderer]

So explain to me what is so important about leaving a note about why a thread is locked ?

It's a curteousy to the members who do behave and obey the rules, it's showing them common respect by explaining your actions.

I'm big on that myself, I tend to over-explain the hell out of any modding/banning I do at EB....but that's because whenever I was a member of a site and threads got closed or people got banned and everyone was discouraged from mentioning it/discussing it I didn't like it at all. :?

 

[jvd]

It's a curteousy to the members who do behave and obey the rules, it's showing them common respect by explaining your actions.

which does nothing to help the flames and trolls on the forum .

I don't feel i need to explain myself when i lock a thread. I lock the thread that is what i'm supposed to do .

If you feel on the forum you moderate that you need to do a song and a dance to thriller each time you lock a thread that is your own personal thing .

 

[j^aws]

ALl you complaing is just for the sake of complaing .

I'm complaining because I'm someone who actually gives a damn and sees something fundamentally wrong as we keep coming back here time and time again. This is not a one-off...

What your complaining about doesn't

a) stop the trolling

b) save a dead post

c) prevent future threads from being flamed .

So explain to me what is so important about leaving a note about why a thread is locked ?

See my first post reply to Guden as he hits the nail on the head.

It's been explained many times that locking a thread may be obvious to some but not to others. If people aren't told then they'll continually make the same mistakes. We've been here before and you've agreed to do this. Heck there's threads saying this in this forum and in the console forum. If you don't have time, just lock the thread with a simple message.

Frankly there's lack of authority and respect in the console forum which is why a, b, c continues. If you can't even lock a thread with some authority and with a simple clear message then it doesn't help get the message across.


Sorry but we're going round in circles. Complaints are,

1. Feedback is constantly provided but never fully executed. (Reason for my first post in this thread and reply to Guden).

2. Lack of time and resources keep coming up. (Mods need to spend more time or more mods are needed).

3. When all else fails no one can ban and is laughable frankly, especially when several final warnings are given.

4. Same complaints are continually made and can be attributed to 1, 2 and 3 not being executed.

5. This isn't a one-off so something is fundamentally wrong.

6. And it's directed to whoever has the authority.

EDIT:

This is not to say that you guys are doing a bad job...

 

[jvd]

I'm complaining because I'm someone who actually gives a damn and sees something fundamentally wrong as we keep coming back here time and time again. This is not a one-off...

WRong ? I see nothign wrong . If there were things wrong then posts that should be locked wouldn't be locked .

NOt giving reasons for locking posts is not something that is fundamentally wrong .

Once again you don't list a reason why this stops trolling and flaming . You said its somethign wrong. But it is not .

It's been explained many times that locking a thread may be obvious to some but not to others. If people aren't told then they'll continually make the same mistakes. We've been here before and you've agreed to do this. Heck there's threads saying this in this forum and in the console forum. If you don't have time, just lock the thread with a simple message.

Reasons are sent through pm . That is the way I do it so that the parties in question can responed back. Posting why in a lock thread does not allow this to take place .

All it is , is a waste of time .

Frankly there's lack of authority and respect in the console forum which is why a, b, c continues. If you can't even lock a thread with some authority and with a simple clear message then it doesn't help get the message across.

Frankly the real problem is a group of people who feel one console should get all the good new and posts and the others negative posts . This is what the problem is . The other problem are the people defending these people in thier little groups like it was highschool .

Sorry but we're going round in circles. Complaints are,

1) Feed back can not allways be executed . What you said doesn't mean it has to be done or that is it is a good idea .

2) Is false . Mods only need banning rights over the console forum . Instead of having to delete 18 posts from opa opa i could just ban him thus reducing 20 mins to 30 mins of work to 1 min .

3) Which is nothing that complaining is going to solve . The only one that can change this is dave . This has been brought up many times and hasn't changed and bringing it up ovre and over again is not going to change it .

4) The only complaints that are valid are when posts that should be locked or deleted are allowed to stay .

5) What you proposed (i.e leaving messages at the end of a locked thread ) will do nothing to solve 1-4 . All it will do is waste more and more time .

 

[Sonic]

I agree there could be an extra mod or two added to the console forum. Or we can get rid of those poster who do not contribute in a positive way. Some people can be banned without warning either as they've had multiple warnings in the past so they are already on the list.

The main thing that needs to be done is for the people bringing down the forum to get banned. Intelligent discussion ceases to exist when many of the members of the forum make one sided comments that are off topic.

The number one priority should be on intelligent discussion on a plethora of topics.

 

[ninelven]

Well, I think you guys do a pretty good job anyway. I'm all for more bannings and thread deletions. Those complaining should consider themselves blessed that I'm not a mod.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Mods only need banning rights over the console forum .

Which is totally impossible with the board software you're running.

Mods can't have banning rights, period from my understanding.

 

[jvd]

it will require a mod to the forum i believe . Which dave really doesn't want . However more help wont really do anything . ALl it willbe is 3-4 people locking threads .

 

[Sonic]

There needs to be a solution for this. There has to be something that can be done with the software to allow certain features in the way of banning. Though I do understand they may be tricky to implement.

 

[digitalwanderer]

it will require a mod to the forum i believe .

Not for the current build of phpBB you're running, and the mod runs behind the security updates so you basically get the choice of running the mod and not being secure or keeping your site secure and stick with the system you got.

I've looked into it before for EB jvd, we sort of had the same dilema and it's how/why me and Jollemi got made admins.