How could they "beef" them up? It's a limited and very cheap implementation of hardware raytracing. They have to redesign their whole raytracing implementation.
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How could they "beef" them up? It's a limited and very cheap implementation of hardware raytracing. They have to redesign their whole raytracing implementation.
No, I guess, I thought I made a clear use-case for a more beefier GPU...
Jawed
Legend
Ray tracing requires intersection testing and acceleration structure traversal.
AMD only has accelerated intersection testing. It appears likely that AMD has no plans to add new hardware functionality, to make traversal accelerated.
It appears AMD wants to make dynamic branching less of a disaster for SIMD-based architectures. Amongst other things, that will make acceleration structure traversal faster, because less ALU lanes will be turned off due to incoherent processing of rays.
At the same time way more SIMDs will make ray tracing go faster.
They have dedicated hardware support for raytracing in RDNA2 no matter how you try to twist it.
Edit: @Jawed you can't just arbitrarily decide NVIDIAs spec is the limit for "hardware acceleration" or hardware raytracing. PowerVR accelerated more "stages" before NVIDIA had even their first RT cores out
Apple wont joint the average regulars
Rootax
Veteran
By making the RAs do more stuff ? Or faster ? Maybe you're right and they can't do that without rethinking everything. I don't know.
Nothing to do with twisting, theres hardware and hardware support..... I clearly mean like what NV is doing, we have one here claiming amd wont, but i hope he's wrong and that they will.
If they can do it without 'dedicated' hardware then thats fine, it doesnt matter to us pc gamers (which this thread is about anyway). On PC NV is having the dominance in users, if things balance out abit (like the 9700pro did), prices will aswell, aside from nv getting more heat and thus the thrive for even faster/more advanced etc innovations.
Bondrewd
Veteran
not happening ever again
You're never getting your green toy for less.
The red toys will be more expensive than the green ones, too.
That's not how any of this works.
All that changes is pricing.
Product roadmaps rarely change due to extrenal pressure.
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So in other words you're at the same time saying NVIDIA doesn't have hardware acceleration for raytracing because PowerVR accelerates more "stages"?
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
How come?
Didn't the PC GCN GPUs take advantage of e.g. the async optimizations that were widely adopted on the 2013 consoles and their mid-gens? And eventually of triangle culling through compute shaders (which benefited GCN much more than Nvidia's architectures and even made Vega's own NGG obsolete)?
I'm really looking forward to seeing what a Navi 31 or similarly-performing beast can do in real-time rendering, but throwing more watts and compute resources at Cyberpunk 2077 's wholly mediocre performance/visuals ratio on "Ultra RT" is not even within my top-20 list.
Others are already showing significantly better visuals on weaker hardware.
Bondrewd
Veteran
Yes.
Tbh IMG actual said something similar-ish before.
Jawed
Legend
If you flesh-out your argument then maybe it's worth discussing.
DXR is the API we have. If you can map the functional parts of DXR to candidates for hardware acceleration, that would be a good start.
He obviously knows a lot about AMDs roadmap but I wouldn’t put much stock in his Nvidia info. It’s always Armageddon with this guy.
Bondrewd
Veteran
Uh, that's a story for another day.
Idk chief I've already told you H100 will be doing ~just fine~.
The other parts, yes; welcome your new red overlord.
I hope your wrong
Lets say it this way, i hope AMD will compete with NV in the ray tracing department, however they do it doesnt matter.
Oof, still havent got over it i see. I think its up there with rift apart, technically superior.
I dont mind him, if he provides valueble AMD information in a civil manner (which i think its untill now), its all good.
Adding the mentioned but optional fixed function traversal block from the older TMU patent to the list of speculation.
Or they do nothing special. Not everybody thinks RT is hyper important.
I thought about more applications of monster GPU power. Layered framebuffers? For some transparency, fixing SS hacks, which would offload a lot RT work?
...all that stuff that seemed completely unpractical just some years ago...
Hive mind in the PC gaming space is an obstacle to fair competition.
HD 4000, 5000, and 7000, and RX 200 and 400 GPUs yielded nothing for AMD despite having the better valued products (and often times the performance crown). People were more than happy to buy another respin of G92 or a lower-tier Nvidia option rather than a faster and equally priced AMD product.
So Su is leading AMD to stop being the bargain option. Performance will come at a premium. Consumers want to purchase products which they deem as premium or boutique products. Look at Apple or Microsoft's Surface line of products.
Apple couldn't care less about entering the gaming GPU market.
Bondrewd
Veteran
This, also margins!
48pp already (with high console mix) but still gotta aim higher.
Tbh I'd argue the iPad is a gaming device of sorts.
We get what we deserve
Once understood, i still hope we get this with proper iGPU as reward!
Idea: 1. Beat competition 2. Vaporize it
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