AMD: RDNA 3 Speculation, Rumours and Discussion

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Gamers or miners? I suspect the gamers willing to pay these prices are the same small group of people who were willing to pay 1200$ for a 2080ti. I personally think they risk driving people to decide it isn't worth the hassle and just buy a console.
Agreed.
PC offers less advantages than ever over a console this gen. We need more people with GPUs that can noticeably outclass the consoles, not less.
That's true, but it's only the start of this console gen. I don't think this gen is an outlier in this regard (i.e., in terms of offering bang-for-the-buck in CPU/GPU power), I think the *last* gen was an outlier with the middling PS4 and anemic XBO. Over the next few years we'll see PC GPUs begin to show more muscle. Nevertheless, I totally agree that the new consoles are very... mmm'wah!... sweetly specced machines.
 
Agreed.

That's true, but it's only the start of this console gen. I don't think this gen is an outlier in this regard (i.e., in terms of offering bang-for-the-buck in CPU/GPU power), I think the *last* gen was an outlier with the middling PS4 and anemic XBO. Over the next few years we'll see PC GPUs begin to show more muscle. Nevertheless, I totally agree that the new consoles are very... mmm'wah!... sweetly specced machines.
I'm not referring to hardware specification so much as experience. Consoles now have 60 fps pretty much as a standard. Now games not only look very similar but they are no longer stuck with a low framerate.
 
I personally think they risk driving people to decide it isn't worth the hassle and just buy a console. PC offers less advantages than ever over a console this gen.

Quite the opposite, consoles offer less advantages then ever this time. Basically no meaningfull ray tracing and reconstruction tech. The two most exciting ones. A puny 16gb ram, last gen cut and clocked down zen2 cpu, in ps5 case 5700xt performance (2019 mid gen gpu). PS5 lacks some rdna2 features aswell, advanced new features are quite nice to have down the line.
While they also hiked in price, aswell sony deciding to increase their games pricing.

Their also still stuck on 30fps for exclusives with 60fps performance modes for graphically intensive games/exclusives, thought that was going to be a thing of the past but no were at it again (mm, ds, rift apart etc).
We seem to be driving past 60fps aswell.

Anyway, pc gaming has only been growing despite price hiking due to no competion, but if we believe this forum AMD might start to offer just that with rdna3+ gpus.
 
Basically no meaningfull ray tracing and reconstruction tech
Wut.
A puny 16gb ram
Wut.
Are we pretending DRAM scaling is still alive.
last gen cut and clocked down zen2 cpu
That's better than the >90% of PCs, period.
(Also, 3.6 allcore isn't even remotely clocked down).
in ps5 case 5700xt performance (2019 mid gen gpu)
Nnnnnope.
PS5 lacks some rdna2 features aswell
Lol.
This is RDNA3 thread.
AMD bad/consoles bad stuff goes into Nvidia-infested ones you see.
 
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Quite the opposite, consoles offer less advantages then ever this time. Basically no meaningfull ray tracing and reconstruction tech. The two most exciting ones.
So paying twice the money as before, then having acceptable fps only thanks to upscaling, support only for a small percentage of games - is 'the most exciting' for you? You're really an easy target for certain marketing divisions :)
Meanwhile, others play the same games, waiting only seconds to continue last session. Personally i'm not excited about that either, but it makes a noticeable difference without questionable downsides.
 
It's interesting to see, how fast "consoles need upscaling to offer good performace, PC doesn't need such crap, PC rulezzz!" changed to "PC offers better upscaling than consoles, PC rulezzz!" ;-)
Amazing, really.
You can probably reasonably go into PS4 Pro era launch threads and cap entire chains full of "CBR/upscaling bad".
 
How legit were the RDNA2 rumors? Infinity cache was the real deal but everything else didn’t really live up to the hype.

What hype? I followed and read every article and forum about big navi since the name was invented.


When the first RDNA2 benchmark leak appeared, IIRC it showed performance 15~20% above a very overclocked 2080 Ti, which at the time was the fastest GPU. Immediately the results were unanimously thought to be fake. The sentiment was that Big Navi would barely match a 2080 Ti, the current performance king. Buildzoid even made a video demonstrating how a 80CU GPU from AMD would not be possible under 500watts.

After that, Ampere was released with an absurd performance increase. No one ever believed with a straight face, Big Navi would fight with Ampere. This was the "hype" for RDNA2. Anyone saying otherwise is lying.


People only started believing performance would be good very close to release time. Even then, the reviews caught everyone by surprise.
 
Quite the opposite, consoles offer less advantages then ever this time. Basically no meaningfull ray tracing and reconstruction tech. The two most exciting ones. A puny 16gb ram, last gen cut and clocked down zen2 cpu, in ps5 case 5700xt performance (2019 mid gen gpu). PS5 lacks some rdna2 features aswell, advanced new features are quite nice to have down the line.
While they also hiked in price, aswell sony deciding to increase their games pricing.

Their also still stuck on 30fps for exclusives with 60fps performance modes for graphically intensive games/exclusives, thought that was going to be a thing of the past but no were at it again (mm, ds, rift apart etc).
We seem to be driving past 60fps aswell.

Anyway, pc gaming has only been growing despite price hiking due to no competion, but if we believe this forum AMD might start to offer just that with rdna3+ gpus.

One of the most ridiculous post I read in B3D, i'm sorry to say. None of the arguments is true, for the features ones there are no way to prove them and came straight from resetera bro-science.

And even the 30FPS games have 60FPS modes, some with RT.

Please be realistic here.
 
No effing way they're selling that for this few bucks.
Ok, now I'm getting worried.
The good thing about competition was more affordable cards throughout the whole range. If we're going into >$2000 territory, and most of all pushing everything else up as a result, then I think we're going backwards.

Besides, as mentioned by @techuse , I don't think AMD and Nvidia can afford to keep pumping up the "dollar-per-performance" ratio without starting to alienate their customers and driving them into consoles. And they're already coming from an extended period of time where they can't put their cards in the hands of gamers.

Plus, the PC needs a "killer app" to justify all that GPU power over what the 200W consoles can do. Nothing looks like Ratchet&Clank yet.


So the question left is how legit is this information. All awesome and true or in the gddr6x doesn't exist side of the pool?
Bondrewd has been pretty spot-on so far.

How legit were the RDNA2 rumors? Infinity cache was the real deal but everything else didn’t really live up to the hype.
All the rumors about ridiculous clocks, IF, significantly better perf-per-watt and lower RT performance than Nvidia and impressive rasterization performance, lived up to the hype.
What's missing is a supposedly impressive perf-per-watt on the mobile parts, but those are yet to come out (but still coming out before Q1 2021 ends according to AMD).

Many reviewers promptly changed the narrative to focus on DLSS2 and RT performance, but RDNA2 is indeed impressive compared to RDNA1. Of course, that also makes RDNA1 pretty tame though.



Combined with increased competition thanks to Intel coming soon, I don't see how the fears that RDNA3 is going to be totally ridiculous in price can be realized.
We pretty much know what Intel is bringing later this year with DG2. Their highest-end desktop part has 512EU / 4096 ALUs at ~2GHz, so ~16TFLOPs of Xe architecture and 256bit GDDR6.
Unless they have a pretty big surprise like Infinity Cache or similar, the memory bandwidth alone should tell us it's not able to match Navi 21 or GP102, much less a Navi 31 behemoth that is more than doubling Navi 21's performance.

I too had hoped Intel could throw a wrench into the whole GPU market by being able to make as many GPUs as they wanted on their fabs, and use aggressive pricing to gain marketshare.
However, DG2 is also being made at TSMC, so they'll be as limited as everyone else. They'll probably sell all the GPUs they can make (unless they really suck), but it won't make any difference.



New It's interesting to see, how fast "consoles need upscaling to offer good performace, PC doesn't need such crap, PC rulezzz!" changed to "PC offers better upscaling than consoles, PC rulezzz!" ;-)
B-but Cyberpunk with maximum RTX!
 
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It's interesting to see, how fast "consoles need upscaling to offer good performace, PC doesn't need such crap, PC rulezzz!" changed to "PC offers better upscaling than consoles, PC rulezzz!"
Putting fanboyism aside, first implementations of checkerboarding in some games were quite shitty, even the first party titles suffered and still continue suffering from this, so it was easy to spot the difference.
As for now, there are quite some robust and good implementations on both PC and consoles, such as the checkerboarding in RE8 for example, where it's hard to distinguish between CB on PS5/XSX and native on PC. I'd certanly go for the CB 4K style of rendering with RT in the game on PC if I had something like RTX 2060 Super (and if the same CB was implemented on PC instead of the shitty interlaced rendering).
 
It's interesting to see, how fast "consoles need upscaling to offer good performace, PC doesn't need such crap, PC rulezzz!" changed to "PC offers better upscaling than consoles, PC rulezzz!" ;-)

Not everyone want more than one monitor and paying 500€ or more for a GPU. Have you seen how good DLSS@Performance looks with a 4K monitor?
 
Ok, now I'm getting worried
We can't just ignore that fact that xtor cost scaling is kinda fucking dead.
Which hurts GPUs like a lot.
We're all so used to dGP duo creaking out >450mm^2 parts like it's no one's business but that time is steadily coming to a close.
Yes. MCP GPUs will make costs sane per tile but the whole idea is throwing moar silicon at the problem thus we're back to square 1.
driving them into consoles
Man if only AMD did not own 2 out of 3 consoles.
Plus, the PC needs a "killer app" to justify all that GPU power over what the 200W consoles can do.
We have Cyberpunk.
lol
first implementations of checkerboarding in some games were quite shitty, even the first party titles suffered and still continue suffering from this, so it was easy to spot the difference.
And DLSS1 was outright aborted by nVidia.
Shit just happens.
The narrative swap is still immense.
However, DG2 is also being made at TSMC, so they'll be as limited as everyone else
No forgetti the allmighty substrates.
They're very much gold now.
 
how's it any different to the narrative with bad micro triangles with tesselation and good ones with compute now?
It seems the difference compute mciro vs. tessellation is much bigger than CB 4K vs. DLSS 4K.
Plus, the PC needs a "killer app" to justify all that GPU power over what the 200W consoles can do. Nothing looks like Ratchet&Clank yet.
Not worth to make killer app for the niche market which can run Minecraft with Marbles graphics.
What i want is a nice cheap SoC for PC, not monster GPUs. Wonder if some contract with console makers prevents AMD from making one. >:/
 
Gamers or miners? I suspect the gamers willing to pay these prices are the same small group of people who were willing to pay 1200$ for a 2080ti. I personally think they risk driving people to decide it isn't worth the hassle and just buy a console. PC offers less advantages than ever over a console this gen. We need more people with GPUs that can noticeably outclass the consoles, not less.

I think AMD learnt the hard way that making Polaris range SKUs only is not good enough to evoke customer interest unless there is a halo SKU never mind the fact that most buyers will anyway buy the lower end SKU
This time they seem geared for handling that, some Halo multi die N5P unobtainium SKU, while the rest are smaller and cheapers SKU fabbed on N6

  1. Different technologies along the price curve

  2. Highest performance technology can afford different elements but cost sensitive products would be less complex

https://seekingalpha.com/article/44...esents-jpmorgan-49th-annual-global-technology
 
What hype? I followed and read every article and forum about big navi since the name was invented.

Yes there was a lot of skepticism over how much AMD could improve on the 5700xt in one go. There was also an immense amount of hype among the YouTube crowd on performance and availability. Particularly after Ampere dropped with less than stellar performance and availability and Infinity Cache was confirmed.

To answer the original question, reality is probably somewhere south of the rosy predictions. It’s been the case for nearly every release. See Ampere and it’s “30 teraflops”.
 
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