AMD Navi Product Reviews and Previews: (5500, 5600 XT, 5700, 5700 XT)

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by snc, Jul 4, 2019.

Tags:
  1. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,737
    Likes Received:
    2,582
    Location:
    Finland
    Honestly though, how likely it is that memory chip certified by manufacturer to run at 14 Gbps wouldn't do it when paired with Navi 10? (The chips themselves are 14 Gbps on every board)
     
    CeeGee likes this.
  2. Lightman

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,811
    Likes Received:
    486
    Location:
    Torquay, UK
    If you skimp on PCB or VRM design, then likely ;)
     
  3. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    10,625
    Likes Received:
    5,187
    I thought there were no reference 5600 XT cards?

    If there are no reference cards, then card Y from manufacturer A has N clocks, and card YX from same manufacturer A has N+M clocks.


    For me, the biggest problem with AMD shipping a different BIOS during review period is wasting the reviewers' time and forcing them to repeat a bunch of tests.
    Large-ish clock variations within cards have existed for years, and as long as said clocks are correctly written in the box and marketing material then I don't really see a problem with it.

    Didn't some Pascal cards start shipping with higher clocked memory at some point? Like the GTX 1060 with 9MT/s GDDR5 and GTX 1080 with 11MT/s GDDR5X?
    How is this any different?
     
  4. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,737
    Likes Received:
    2,582
    Location:
    Finland
    There are no reference cards but there is reference spec (and we actually have at least one AIB model apparently running that spec, MSI Mech)
    Yes.
     
    A1xLLcqAgt0qc2RyMz0y likes this.
  5. Davros

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Messages:
    15,484
    Likes Received:
    2,665
    Gamers nexus did a video about it there are 2 memory suppliers for navi cards and the ones that are failing when clocked to 14gbps mostly from the same supplier (sorry forgot the name)

    Are you refering to the chips on the 5600xt ? if so gamers nexus say they are not rated at 14gbps


    ps: this is a really informative video
     
    #545 Davros, Feb 5, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020
  6. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,737
    Likes Received:
    2,582
    Location:
    Finland
    Steve while often on point, is not on this one.
    All the memory chips are 14 Gbps, they're validated to work at 14 Gbps by the memory manufacturer.
    However, AMD sells the memory chips bundled with the GPU and hasn't specifically tested these to work at 14 Gbps even when the memory manufacturer has. This was reason enough for some manufacturers to keep it at 12 Gbps, which AMD has specifically validated for these bundles.
    Here's MSI's guys talking about it (20:34 if it doesn't start at the right spot)
     
    Lightman and BRiT like this.
  7. Davros

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Messages:
    15,484
    Likes Received:
    2,665
    it says "Memory increase is NOT part of AMD's BIOS update since not all cards can do 14Gpbs"
    So designed to do 14 but not tested to do it
     
    #547 Davros, Feb 5, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020
  8. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,737
    Likes Received:
    2,582
    Location:
    Finland
    I know what the slide says, the 14 Gbps memory speed is optional (of course it is, the spec didn't change at all, they just allowed higher overclocks including 14 Gbps memory if the AIB so chooses) and that wasn't my point at all.

    Every single 5600 XT card out there has 14 Gbps memory, sold as 14 Gbps memory by the memory manufacturer.
    When AMD ships their bundles however, they only promised 12 Gbps speed, which is why some manufacturers decided they're not testing their luck (even when the chips themselves are certified to run 14 Gbps by memory manufacturer)
     
    #548 Kaotik, Feb 5, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020
  9. pharma

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    3,334
    Likes Received:
    1,959
    You can't really blame the AIB's. I assume AIB's have to cover warranty costs if issues appear at speeds not promised by AMD, or did AMD agree to cover any warranty costs associated with issues at 14 Gbps?
     
  10. sir doris

    Regular

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    668
    Likes Received:
    118
    Totally, from that GN video you can see that MSI only test the boards at 12Gbps, and they DO have failures which have to be rectified/ reworked. So there will be boards out there that will fail at 14Gbps. That's a cost and logistical problem the AIB's could well do without.
     
    A1xLLcqAgt0qc2RyMz0y likes this.
  11. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,737
    Likes Received:
    2,582
    Location:
    Finland
    Obviously I have no idea on the warranties, but considering these memory chips are the exact same chips as used in 5700-series, what are the chances they wouldn't work at the same 14 Gbps with little lower specced Navi 10 GPU?
     
  12. entity279

    Veteran Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,248
    Likes Received:
    433
    Location:
    Romania
    If they don't re-use the 5700 boards entirely, the chances are higher than 0
     
  13. pharma

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    3,334
    Likes Received:
    1,959
    AMD should then be extremely confident that there would be no warranty issues and would welcome the opportunity to cover AIB warranty problems associated with the "not promised speeds".
    They still have only the promised memory speeds on their product page.
     
  14. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,737
    Likes Received:
    2,582
    Location:
    Finland
    AMD never changed RX 5600 XT spec, they only allowed higher factory overclocks for both GPU & memory, so obviously the specs on the site are same as always.
     
    Lightman likes this.
  15. CarstenS

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    May 31, 2002
    Messages:
    4,875
    Likes Received:
    2,182
    Location:
    Germany
    Not saying that this is the case here, but it's not unheard of, that certain SKUs get lowered voltage for memories to limit their clock potential.
     
    #555 CarstenS, Feb 6, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
    Lightman and pharma like this.
  16. upnorthsox

    Veteran

    Joined:
    May 7, 2008
    Messages:
    2,102
    Likes Received:
    377
    So if they are having failures at 12Gbps then they have failures no matter whether AMD qualifies the memory or not. That's a cost they are well aware of then as an AIB and is assuredly reflected in their discount.
     
  17. Ryan Smith

    Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    623
    Likes Received:
    1,094
    Location:
    PCIe x16_1
    At least for the RX 5600 XT, that's not the case. The memory voltages are the same at 12Gbps and 14Gbps.
     
  18. sir doris

    Regular

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    668
    Likes Received:
    118
    I'm talking about new VBIOSs not bumping memory clocks from 12Gbps to 14Gbps as initially thought despite the memory chips being capable (apparently). If you watch the GN video you will see that as with any production line things fail. As the initial wave of RX5600XTs were only qualified for 12Gbps memory, there will be cards out there that are fine at 12Gbps but not 14Gbps due to manufacturing tolerances, component quality, etc.. The failures at 12Gbps are identified and fixed before the products ship, as part of the testing.

    It's perfectly understandable that OEM's don't want users taking products that they have confirmed work at the stated speeds and then run the components at speeds they have not tested just because AMD say it *should* be fine.
     
    pharma and DavidGraham like this.
  19. DavidGraham

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,186
    Likes Received:
    3,297
    The mess around the 5600XT launch goes deeper and deeper still, previously PowerColor boasted about the ability of their cards to handle 14Gbps memory with the new BIOS, even to the point of attacking MSI's choice not to increase memory speed from 12Gbps to 14Gbps, but apparently PowerColor then forgot to properly design the new BIOS with proper fan curves and speeds, the end result is that the card temps reach 100c, constantly overheats and throttles, and the performance drops like a tank to unplayable levels. The card needed a new "new BIOS" to fix the fan issues.

     
    pharma likes this.
  20. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,737
    Likes Received:
    2,582
    Location:
    Finland
    That has nothing to do with 5600XT and everything to do with PowerColor. Their 5600 XT Red Dragon uses exact same cooler (and PCB minus couple phases ripped out) as 5700 XT Red Dragon which has no similar issues.
     
    no-X and entity279 like this.
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...