AMD Navi Product Reviews and Previews: (5500, 5600 XT, 5700, 5700 XT)

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by snc, Jul 4, 2019.

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  1. JoeJ

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    Process twice expensive, but smaller chips. Adding HBM2 is more expensive than GDDR6(?), the difference might be not that big.

    It's just - looking at price, performance and features, Navi isn't the leap i hoped to happen for next gen, leaving me a bit disappointed.
    But rumors about RDNA2 sound good. I'll wait for that. :)
     
  2. Kaotik

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    Smaller chips, yes, but the density hasn't doubled while the price (pretty much) has. Producing exact same chip is more expensive on 7nm.
     
  3. no-X

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    No. The graph is related to 250mm² dies. It's not possible to say, that 500mm² 14nm die is less expensive than 250mm² 7nm die (based on the graph), because yields decrease exponentially with die size (the relation is not linear). We can say that one 250mm² 7nm die almost as expensive as two 250mm² 14nm dies. But we can't say that one 500mm² 14nm die is just as expensive as two 250mm² 14nm dies. Two smaller dies will have higher yield than one big, so the big one will be more expensive.
     
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  4. Kaotik

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    True, didn't think of that part, but considering that on 250mm² dies the price almost doubled, yet you can fit only ~65% more transistors in 1 mm² (based on Vega10/Navi10 comparison), it's still likely the 7nm ends up more expensive, especially since mature 16/14/12nm process probably has better yields compared to relatively fresh 7nm
     
  5. Bondrewd

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    No, N7 is in fact the best yielding node in TSMC history.
    The best ramp ever, too.
     
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  6. Kaotik

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    Fastest ramp, yes for now (according to TSMC 5nm will be faster), but last time I heard they were "expecting to match 12/16nm yields in 2019" but haven't heard actual confirmation if they ever did. Also AMD didn't really use TSMC 12/16nm, they used Samsung/Glofo 14/12 which might have had better yields, too.
    edit: and there would still be some road to go, since the price for mm² nearly doubled but density only grew around 65%
     
  7. ToTTenTranz

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    Price for sq-mm doubled is applied to first wafers or lifetime orders?

    Seems odd to me that with TSMC constantly retrofitting their fabs to support newer nodes, theoretically they would just keep doubling their revenue after each transition. This would mean a level of revenue growth that shouldn't really be sustainable for long.
     
  8. Entropy

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    Price per wafer drops over time (as does defect rate). TSMC prices were reported to have dropped below $10000/wafer last autumn in spite of high order pressure. And Samsung is rumoured to have dropped their prices considerably below TSMCs in order to compete and improve their process utilization.
    The effective cost/mm2 depends on a lot of factors, some of them changing over time.
    Any argument based on a single approximate (and dated) figure is nigh on useless, and it doesn’t get better that some of the numbers referred to have some kind of baked in assumtions about design costs and production volume.
    All other things being equal, a final mm2 on TSMC 7nm is obviously more expensive than a mm2 at 16nm. But all things aren’t going to be equal, and again, the ratios will change over time. Trying to draw conclusions without being close to having access to the necessary information is an exercise in futility.
     
  9. pharma

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    RX 5600XT reviews (VideocardZ)

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    #470 pharma, Jan 21, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2020
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  10. DegustatoR

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  11. pharma

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    https://www.anandtech.com/show/15422/the-amd-radeon-rx-5600-xt-review
     
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  12. Kaotik

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    AMD has said all along this is 1080p card rather than 1440p card. Regardless, in our tests RX 5600 XT was faster than RTX 2060 (NVIDIA Founders Edition so factory OCd by default) at both 1080p and 1440p in every test except for Shadow of the Tomb Raider.
    TPU lists 5600 XT slightly faster at both resolutions too, as does ComputerBase
    Haven't crawled through the rest yet
     
    #473 Kaotik, Jan 21, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
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  13. DegustatoR

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    2060 FE spec is reference, there's no OC there. Then again, AMD's new BIOS is for OCed cards, as mentioned by Anandtech:

    I mean, the cards are basically even in performance in current titles but 5600XT trades it's lack of new features for $20 lower price. Seems like a fair trade to me. Wouldn't buy one personally still, don't see $20 as a huge save.
     
  14. Ryan Smith

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    Personal aside: while I get why AMD made the last-minute BIOS changes that they did, I am rather concerned that it's going to make a mess of things in the long run. Not all RX 5600 XT cards are getting the 14Gbps factory overclock on the memory. Those cards perform a lot better, but they are well above what AMD actually guarantees as far as performance and specifications are concerned.

    (The TechSpot graph embedded above is a great example of why this is a potential problem)
     
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  15. pharma

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    One review without the new bios due to time constraints.
    https://www.thefpsreview.com/2020/01/21/xfx-radeon-rx-5600-xt-thicc-ii-pro-review/

    Edit: Bios update on Linux made performance worse.
    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux-rx5600xt-amd&num=2
     
    #476 pharma, Jan 21, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  16. Lightman

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    Well, we finally have a proper price and performance fight in $250 - $300 price segment!
    It's messy with last minute BIOS updates, but it brings decent value into this segment.
    I can see 5600XT going down to under $250 spot in couple of months time. Compared to RX580 it offers very decent uplift (finally) in the same MSRP bracket.

    Now lets wait for 2nd half of 2020 to see the same fight in higher end of market!
     
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  17. OlegSH

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    RTX 2060 FE has reference clocks and unlike heavily factory overclocked 5600 XT cards, perf gains from RTX 2060 overclocking are well higher than 2%
     
  18. pharma

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    True, as can be seen from the GPU Shootout graph depicting RTX 2060 FE and AIB custom 2060's (MSI, Palit and Asus).
    [​IMG]
     
    #479 pharma, Jan 21, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  19. Kaotik

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    Oh? I thought all RTX 20 FE's were factory OCd. Was it just the highend then?
     
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