Rootax
Veteran
Well at least they have a solution to boost framerate now. Probably not as good, but it's out, and it's a big step for AMD I believe.
Well at least they have a solution to boost framerate now. Probably not as good, but it's out, and it's a big step for AMD I believe.
Flappy Pannus
Veteran
The question is "how much better is this solution than other non-DLSS methods" though. If it produces inferior results to TAA upscaling/checkerboarding, then it's debatable how much of a 'big step' it is. Perhaps it's trivial to implement and that will spur its adoption across engines that don't have integrated temporal upscalers like UE4, so yeah - some slight potential improvement I guess?
That video Alex, cant say I wasn't a bit disappointed by it. It felt like you went in with the intent to destroy it as much as possible. I understand nitpicking is what DF does and I dont have any problem with that, but little to no effort was made to say anything good about it on the other hand, which I think there is plenty to say on that front for a genuinely platform and engine agnostic technique like this.
It should be absolutely no surprise that FSR doesn't fare well with lower base resolutions so focusing on FSR Performance mode seemed a little....harsh. I also think you were too quickly dismissive of how 'bad' all modes below Ultra Quality looked, seemingly running with the idea that reconstruction techniques aren't worthwhile unless they essentially match native rendering, ignoring the huge performance gains you get in return(is performance king or not?). Quality definitely looks highly usable to me in all the examples I've seen.
The length of the video also felt a bit insulting. 14 minutes isn't super short, but y'all have spent 20 minutes talking just about the improvement of DLSS from 1.9 to 2.0 in one game before. FSR seems a bit too significant to just brush off so easily and I was definitely expecting something more substantial here.
I'd say overall, FSR is probably more impressive than most thought it was going to be. And could easily be a common inclusion in titles going forward if it's as easy to implement as claimed.
It should be absolutely no surprise that FSR doesn't fare well with lower base resolutions so focusing on FSR Performance mode seemed a little....harsh. I also think you were too quickly dismissive of how 'bad' all modes below Ultra Quality looked, seemingly running with the idea that reconstruction techniques aren't worthwhile unless they essentially match native rendering, ignoring the huge performance gains you get in return(is performance king or not?). Quality definitely looks highly usable to me in all the examples I've seen.
The length of the video also felt a bit insulting. 14 minutes isn't super short, but y'all have spent 20 minutes talking just about the improvement of DLSS from 1.9 to 2.0 in one game before. FSR seems a bit too significant to just brush off so easily and I was definitely expecting something more substantial here.
I'd say overall, FSR is probably more impressive than most thought it was going to be. And could easily be a common inclusion in titles going forward if it's as easy to implement as claimed.
It is only impressive because you have no way to compare it with other techniques. And AMD wont publish the source code till mid of july:
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/...olution-quality-performance-benchmark/10.html
I think you are missing the main point, which explains why they were so dismissive: it gives worse results than TAA, which is also platform agnostic. If FSR would not require engine integration and worked out of the box with almost any game, then yeah it would be impressive for the results it gives. But if it requires integration why would a game or game engine implement it instead of TAA?
DegustatoR
Legend
From GamersNexus video:
Granted that's on a 5700G so it would be interesting to see the cost on proper desktop GPUs.
Watched HUB's video and yeah it's bad again. All they are saying there goes against every other review and image I've seen so far.
Flappy Pannus
Veteran
It wasn't focused on performance mode. The majority of the Godfall comparisons were Ultra Quality, the rest of the video was showing all modes across a variety of resolutions, as you should do when evaluating any reconstruction tech.
14 minutes isn't 'brushing off', if anything I think DF's videos could all stand to be a bit more compact. DLSS 1.9 to 2.0 was a massive upgrade regardless, despite Nvidia just increasing the version number by .1 It basically made DLSS actually worthwhile.
Secondly, DLSS is barely even mentioned in the video, and there's actually no comparison done with it. The comparisons, when they are done, is what it should be compared with - platform-agnostic approaches that already exist in current engines, like TAA reconstruction. While Alex focuses on PC, DF obviously covers all the consoles, and this tech is expected to be used in the PS5/SX where TAA/Checkerboarding reconstruction is already used widely, so to be positive on FSR it would have to at least match those, if not surpass them. Early indications are that no, it doesn't do that.
If Alex's video focused on DLSS as a comparison and didn't show any DLSS artifacts (Hardware Unboxed did this which it should when comparing any reconstruction methods), then this critique would have merit - but he didn't do that. Basically your beef seems to be that he wasn't positive enough, and it was too short - not really much meat in that critique.
I've only had chance to watch a few videos on this (HU, LTT & DF) but the Ultra Quality FSR images from the former looked better to me than the DF images. With HU and LTT I couldn't really notice much difference between native and FSR, but it was much more apparent on the DF video.
I'm watching on a 1440p monitor, so not 4K, but I thought it interesting, anyone else notice this?
I'm watching on a 1440p monitor, so not 4K, but I thought it interesting, anyone else notice this?
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
I think this might have passed unnoticed, but Forspoken is Square Enix's highest profile game in the works with a January 2022 release date and it's part of the games confirmed to be using FSR. That puts the Luminous Engine as another entry that supports FSR.
Here's LTT's video:
And AMD's promo:
I generally agree that FSR is more important to the market in general than what's being considered here, especially concerning the ability for other IHVs to compete against Nvidia and most importantly not ending up having to pay $600 for midrange graphics cards because IHV-locked features became the norm.
However I do acknowledge that DigitalFoundry doesn't need to take this into account, and it's within their right to criticize AMD's claims of "equal to native" and focus on alternatives that are present in proprietary engines.
Gamers Nexus' and Hardware Unboxed videos do provide more insight into all quality modes, and it's always great to have more variety:
Resident Evil Village doesn't support TAA U, and I suspect neither will Far Cry 6's Dunia.
Lastly there are people who really don't like TAA. There's a subreddit dedicated to hating TAA lol.
I was referring to the question you pose at ~12m50s: "Why must a game only have basic upscaling?".
I fully agree that every game (at least every game using a deferred renderer?) should have a TAA U toggle, but the option to disable it should be there for people who notice and are bothered by temporal artifacts too much.
Here's LTT's video:
And AMD's promo:
I generally agree that FSR is more important to the market in general than what's being considered here, especially concerning the ability for other IHVs to compete against Nvidia and most importantly not ending up having to pay $600 for midrange graphics cards because IHV-locked features became the norm.
However I do acknowledge that DigitalFoundry doesn't need to take this into account, and it's within their right to criticize AMD's claims of "equal to native" and focus on alternatives that are present in proprietary engines.
Gamers Nexus' and Hardware Unboxed videos do provide more insight into all quality modes, and it's always great to have more variety:
I think you're mixing up TAA with TAA U (U for upscaling). FSR works fine with TAA, and not all engines support TAA U.
Resident Evil Village doesn't support TAA U, and I suspect neither will Far Cry 6's Dunia.
Lastly there are people who really don't like TAA. There's a subreddit dedicated to hating TAA lol.
But it won't have temporal artefacts in the games that don't use/enable TAA.
I was referring to the question you pose at ~12m50s: "Why must a game only have basic upscaling?".
I fully agree that every game (at least every game using a deferred renderer?) should have a TAA U toggle, but the option to disable it should be there for people who notice and are bothered by temporal artifacts too much.
I think you're missing the point of FSR? You wouldn't use it instead of TAA only. You'd use it to get close to native and increase performance by a lot. If you don't need the extra performance then there's no need to turn it on.
Like Totten noted, I meant TAA U.
DegustatoR
Legend
TAA to TAAU is a pretty trivial change which is likely to be already implemented in all engines which support dynamic resolution scaling and have TAA.
I don't remember where this puts Dunia or Luminous engine though - do they use DRS? If yes then they likely have TAAU already, if only on consoles.
I don't remember where this puts Dunia or Luminous engine though - do they use DRS? If yes then they likely have TAAU already, if only on consoles.
DegustatoR
Legend
FSR likely needs the original frame to be AAed as good as possible.
Doesn't mean that it have to be TAA specifically.
But considering the nature of FSR I'd expect it to look rather bad with something like FXAA used instead as that would lead to lots of temporal instability.
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
I don't know why you put a timestamp on terminator resistance but FSR doesn't need TAA to be even functionable. It works with any kind of AA.
Thanks.From GamersNexus video:
Granted that's on a 5700G so it would be interesting to see the cost on proper desktop GPUs.
Watched HUB's video and yeah it's bad again. All they are saying there goes against every other review and image I've seen so far.
In Terminator FSR inherits every negative aspects of the TAA implementation. FSR needs some form of AA (most games will be using TAA...). So if the AA is not up to state FSR will have trouble to be even useful.
