Alternative AA methods and their comparison with traditional MSAA*

[KKRT]

KKRT, I got SGSSAA working on my 560 with the current drivers and I posted instructions in the Skyrim PC Gaming thread. In NV Inspector, use the Enhance Application AA mode, 4X MSAA, 4X SGSSAA and have Skyrim on 4X AA.

Yep, i followed like 3 different Nvidia Inspector setups, but it didnt work. It could be driver issue, but i dont want to install betas, i'll wait for full release and then try again. For now, i'm quite satisfied with OGSSAA, but i'm certain that with many textures mods it could cause vram problems eventually ;p

 

[swaaye]

Yep, i followed like 3 different Nvidia Inspector setups, but it didnt work. It could be driver issue, but i dont want to install betas, i'll wait for full release and then try again. For now, i'm quite satisfied with OGSSAA, but i'm certain that with many textures mods it could cause vram problems eventually ;p

I'm pretty sure I'm on a WHQL driver but maybe I'll check if I remember.

 

[KKRT]

How can it be a driver issue? I'm not using beta drivers myself.

So dunno, but its not working for me and I've tried every option in nv inspector.

 

[swaaye]

So dunno, but its not working for me and I've tried every option in nv inspector.

I know for sure that using the "override App AA" setting breaks SGSSAA.. This had me disappointed until I tried "enhance app AA".

NV Inspector (Skyrim profile)
-Enhance App AA
-4X MSAA
-4X SGSSAA
-everything else default

Skyrim
-4X MSAA

You can probably run 2X or 8X too, but the key is having Enhance App AA and all AA levels identical.

 

[Man from Atlantis]

I know for sure that using the "override App AA" setting breaks SGSSAA.. This had me disappointed until I tried "enhance app AA".

i dont like the sgssaa in skyrim at least the enhanced version.. it blurs too much for my taste.. though there are couple of bits but havent tried them yet..

 

[KKRT]

@swaaye
I tried enhance AA too Seriously, it doesnt work for me at all.
Oh i dont have Skyrim profile, but i used correct values.


@Man from Atlantis
From what i remember, You must decrease lod bias below 0, to decrease blur. [to -1.5 or smth]

 

[swaaye]

i dont like the sgssaa in skyrim at least the enhanced version.. it blurs too much for my taste.. though there are couple of bits but havent tried them yet..

NV's SGSSAA definitely blurs more than AMD's RGSSAA. But I think it's acceptable with Skyrim. With some games it is worse. I suppose this is why NV doesn't officially support its use.

Forcing negative LOD can help but it can also really mess up some games.

 

[Man from Atlantis]

@Man from Atlantis
From what i remember, You must decrease lod bias below 0, to decrease blur. [to -1.5 or smth]

NV's SGSSAA definitely blurs more than AMD's RGSSAA. But I think it's acceptable with Skyrim. With some games it is worse. I suppose this is why NV doesn't officially support its use.

Forcing negative LOD can help but it can also really mess up some games.

:smile: ok i may be noob sometimes but i know that without adjusting the LOD when using sgssaa, the finer details on textures can get lost due to oversampling.. but enhancing has blur problem that you cant avoid it with using - lod..

for example 0x000000C1, 0x000010C1, 0x000012C1 are better and less blurier but there is more performance penalty..

"Enhanced" 8xSGSSAA
http://h6.abload.de/img/enhancedx876r.png
"0x000000C1" 8xSGSSAA
http://h6.abload.de/img/c1aw7bh.png

10C1 left, right no bits enhanced

 

[Andrew Lauritzen]

New FXAA definitely sounds interesting. I'm particularly interested in the removal of the "search" step and replacing it with "filtering"... that seems like the right way to go in the long run, so definitely interested in seeing this in action.

 

[CNCAddict]

Super noob question alert...but do any of these algorithms work on something like a distant power line that is only 1/10 of a pixel wide? Some of the most aggravating artifacts are sub-pixel geometry that constantly pops in and out of existence as opposed to slowing fading in and out of view.

 

[homerdog]

No pure post processing algorithm can fix the problem you describe. Some of these techniques are implementing temporal supersampling, which can help if framerates are high and there isn't much movement (e.g. if the powerline is a long way away).

And then there's good old MSAA, which will handle that situation just fine.

 

[Man from Atlantis]

FXAA 4.0 Update, couple of screenies

http://timothylottes.blogspot.com/2011/12/fxaa-40-stills-and-features.html

FXAA 4.0 Stills and Features Part 2

http://timothylottes.blogspot.com/2011/12/fxaa-40-stills-and-features-part-2.html

 

[willardjuice]

Just once I would like to see an uncompressed video with these techniques. Stills are worthless to me.

 

[boxleitnerb]

:smile: ok i may be noob sometimes but i know that without adjusting the LOD when using sgssaa, the finer details on textures can get lost due to oversampling.. but enhancing has blur problem that you cant avoid it with using - lod..

for example 0x000000C1, 0x000010C1, 0x000012C1 are better and less blurier but there is more performance penalty..

"Enhanced" 8xSGSSAA
http://h6.abload.de/img/enhancedx876r.png
"0x000000C1" 8xSGSSAA
http://h6.abload.de/img/c1aw7bh.png

10C1 left, right no bits enhanced

Hey, you found my screenshots
The bits really incur a heavy performance hit. I think if you disable DOF via the ini file, the blur is gone and you don't really need the bits. However, I found that only when using the bits absolutely everything is antialiased. Without them, there is a bit more aliasing in general, especially on shaders and no antialiasing while reading, doing lockpicking games and with certain fire effects iirc.

 

[Davros]

Has anyone posted this link (I only checked the first 22 pages)

http://www.iryoku.com/smaa/

 

[Man from Atlantis]

Hey, you found my screenshots
The bits really incur a heavy performance hit. I think if you disable DOF via the ini file, the blur is gone and you don't really need the bits. However, I found that only when using the bits absolutely everything is antialiased. Without them, there is a bit more aliasing in general, especially on shaders and no antialiasing while reading, doing lockpicking games and with certain fire effects iirc.

yes, one of them Raff's and others should be yours from 3dcenter.. i should have written the sources.. as i said i didnt bother to use them since they would even decrease my performance which was already at the bare minimum, just put them as an example of what i've heard and seen.. i played 2xsgssaa one day or two -after spent a week with ingame fxaa +2xmsaa- then went back to 2xmsaa+4xtssaa.. it was like i'd have done laser surgery to my eyes it was so damn clear and crystal now i am using 2xmsaa + smaa.. thanks to get rid of tssaa i can use Quality level SSAO now not Performance :smile:

 

[jlippo]

Super noob question alert...but do any of these algorithms work on something like a distant power line that is only 1/10 of a pixel wide?

Analytical methods for powerlines seems to be very good as seen with Need for Speed.

For more complex cases pre-filtered geometry should do the trick.
Perhaps a voxel presentation of these objects with proper mipmaps.

In both cases transparency is a problem, but should work with OIT quite nicely.

 

[sebbbi]

Has anyone posted this 2 link (I only checked the first 22 pages)
http://www.iryoku.com/smaa/

Yes, and Jorge Jimenez has also personally posted to the thread. Interesting read indeed, I recommend browsing pages 45-47 for lots of good information from the man himself.

 

[CeeJay.dk]

Have anyone considered using subpixel rendering?

It works for anti-aliasing fonts (ClearType) so I don't see with it wouldn't work for other types of graphics.

 

[Davros]

Thanks...