Almost 3 Years And PS3's First Party Still Does Not Have A Killer App?

[TheChefO]

You think generic space-marines, especially faceless, voiceless ones, are more memorable characters than a well rounded, humourous, convincingly human and well acted Drake?

Yes, it is obviously more memorable. Ask around who the faceless space marine is (either one), vs Drake. Halo inspires and so does Gears.

If they are going to lean on a "typical guy" then they need to make him memorable somehow... not just through incredibly smooth animation in a great looking environment.

I think the hollywood connection has been coming together over the years, but it isn't where it needs to be yet.

Example:

RE5

Capcom put their all into this. They wanted a cinematic experience and they went to hollywood to get it. For the most part, they got what they came for. The camera work was excellent. It was exactly what one would expect to see in a movie, but it wasn't. It was in-game cinematics. The problem they ran into was the actors. They didn't go after top quality writers or actors, and this left the experience, very gamerish. But they took it one step closer. Hopefully next go round they will invest in these aspects and bring it up a notch.

Sony needs to get Hollywood on board and tap that resource to build or enhance some IP that can move systems.


Please don't take this to mean that I think Gears and Halo are worlds better in any aspect of what I was talking about. They aren't. But they are entrenched. Sony would need to do something above and beyond to pull attention. Especially with a higher pricetag.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

You think generic space-marines, especially faceless, voiceless ones, are more memorable characters than a well rounded, humourous, convincingly human and well acted Drake?

Well MC has the helmet, so no face, Marcus Fenix has a face and they both speak and not to mention kick ass from start till the end. I remember how they looked an sounded, can't say the same for KZ. In those 360 games The story revolves around them and they are the center in most cutscenese etc. Those characters are more than just your everyday average dude, which is what Drake is, and I think that excites a lot of people. Of course it helps that those games are great on other measurements too.

I think Nariko was a pretty good attempt to create an interesting character, but the game itself lacked a little bit and this is just imo, but I think that male players won't be so excited to play as a female, atleast to a degree that it's harder for a game with female lead to become a mega success.

 

[obonicus]

Yes, it is obviously more memorable. Ask around who the faceless space marine is (either one), vs Drake. Halo inspires and so does Gears.

Ask who? The common man? He doesn't know who any of these characters are. Halo fans? Sony fans? Journalists? Your friends?

The characters have more recognition by merit of having reached more people, but you're arguing chicken and the egg here. Why is Marcus Fenix more recognizable? There's nothing unique about him outside of his ugliness -- he and Kratos practically share a single personality between the two of them. Why is Master Chief recognizable? He looks like the DOOM player model. You have journalists gushing about the character development in Uncharted or liking Drake, so it's clearly not universal.

I still stand by what I said in April or May, that these games because popular in spite of interesting characters. The Mad World trailer and amazing next-gen graphics did far more for Gears of War than Marcus Fenix ever could.

 

[RobertR1]

The "killer app" can be formed using a few different criteria.

Sales: Did the game become a breakthrough success. No, not just "sold a million" but did it just sell 4-5m+ and get people excited?

Critically loved: Did the game break paradigms, pushed boundaries and introduce new styles of play to make itself stand out from the rest?

Presentation: Was the games art direction/sound/graphics done in a way that appealed to the masses and make heads turn?

Gameplay: CoD4 is the perfect example of this. It leap frogged the competition by perfecting the shooting mechanics of a FPS game.

Now a real killer app will likely check off a few of the above. Why not just one? because as we have learned time after time, you need to not only advance greatly in one area but ensure that the rest of the pieces are on par also. It does you no good to have a technical master piece with flawed controls or a great control with poor level design. You don't need to be the best at everything but you need to be the best at something while being very good at everything else also! At the end of the day, these games will have the word of mouth that keep them selling for months on end and peer pressure people into picking up the game and console it's on.

A killer will have a strong blend of the components needed for it become a commercial and critical success.

 

[-tkf-]

What is the point of being rich and having expensive things if you cannot play with them

Kids, they make everything else second choice

 

[Cornsnake]

The "killer app" can be formed using a few different criteria.

Sales: Did the game become a breakthrough success. No, not just "sold a million" but did it just sell 4-5m+ and get people excited?

Critically loved: Did the game break paradigms, pushed boundaries and introduce new styles of play to make itself stand out from the rest?

Presentation: Was the games art direction/sound/graphics done in a way that appealed to the masses and make heads turn?

Gameplay: CoD4 is the perfect example of this. It leap frogged the competition by perfecting the shooting mechanics of a FPS game.

Now a real killer app will likely check off a few of the above. Why not just one? because as we have learned time after time, you need to not only advance greatly in one area but ensure that the rest of the pieces are on par also. It does you no good to have a technical master piece with flawed controls or a great control with poor level design. You don't need to be the best at everything but you need to be the best at something while being very good at everything else also! At the end of the day, these games will have the word of mouth that keep them selling for months on end and peer pressure people into picking up the game and console it's on.

A killer will have a strong blend of the components needed for it become a commercial and critical success.

I partly disagree. I agree that a killer app should have a fair share strong points, but I also believe they can get away with a few faults and still be a killer app.

Take Cod 4 for example. It has a very short SP, stupid AI, laggy servers, and like every online game plenty bugs. For all it's faults it still became a huge success. And I think if you look at other killer apps you can see the same thing.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

You think generic space-marines, especially faceless, voiceless ones, are more memorable characters than a well rounded, humourous, convincingly human and well acted Drake?

We've been through this with a whole topic, and yes, Master Chief and Marcus are quite memorable characters.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I still stand by what I said in April or May, that these games because popular in spite of interesting characters. The Mad World trailer and amazing next-gen graphics did far more for Gears of War than Marcus Fenix ever could.

Following this Logic, KZ2 should have sold more than Gears and Halo combined. You know, with the super awesome E3'05 trailer and the outstanding nextgen graphics.

Yet somehow it did not happen.

 

[obonicus]

Following this Logic, KZ2 should have sold more than Gears and Halo combined. You know, with the super awesome E3'05 trailer and the outstanding nextgen graphics.

Except these are different things. The 'super awesome E3'05 trailer' was just a trailer, the Mad World thing was the commercial Microsoft used to promote the game. It's where the marketing argument stems from; even if Sony's marketing isn't bad, the company that does marketing for MS is remarkable. Mad World was captivating, despite it having nothing to do with the game it's trying to sell. Their Halo 3 (from the same team) ad had me interested in the game (also for not resembling the game at all), and I don't like Halo. I was onto them for the GeoW2 ad so it wasn't as effective (but I bought the game anyway).

Also, Killzone 2's graphics are impressive, but they're not the generational leap that GeoW1 was in relation to XB1 and PS2.

 

[betan]

Following this Logic, KZ2 should have sold more than Gears and Halo combined. You know, with the super awesome E3'05 trailer and the outstanding nextgen graphics.

Yet somehow it did not happen.

I'm sure KZ2 trailers did much more for the game than Sev character.

 

[dobwal]

Right. Okay. In that case, PS3's killer apps were Resistance and Heavenly Sword etc. No title was enough to justify the huge asking price to multiple millions of shoppers though. Halo was. Gears was. But I don't think anyone can predict those things up front. I suppose if they could, every console would launch with a stellar line-up and sell 10 million units overnight

Neither app really had that much appeal within the PS3's userbase. If your app can't resonate with a large segment of PS3 owners, its hard to imagine that your app can do a good job selling PS3es. You only have to look at the response to R2 to surmise, that R1 success in terms of moving software had more to do with the relatively lack of titles available during the first 8-10 months of the PS3 life than a relatively strong affinity for the game itself.

But you are right. A title's ability to move hardware has alot to do how well the hardware is perceived and readily accepted by the market in and of itself. GTA 3 or GT 3 would have had a hard moving a $600 dollar console especially by themselves. GTA3 and GT3 became huge sellers that help distinguish the PS2 library, thus enhancing console sales because consumers didn't need a lot of convincing to buy a PS2 at the time. Its like how the huge library of iphone apps makes the iphone more appealing in terms of its competitors. But the iphone itself has such a large appeal that generating extra momentum in terms of demand is much easier with each advantage in features.

 

[joker454]

Right. Okay. In that case, PS3's killer apps were Resistance and Heavenly Sword etc. No title was enough to justify the huge asking price to multiple millions of shoppers though.

Then they are not killer apps, because by definition a killer app is something so good that it gets you to buy the hardware to play it. Blu-ray movies on the other hand are a killer app because they have done just that, got many to buy PS3's to play them.

 

[dobwal]

Then they are not killer apps, because by definition a killer app is something so good that it gets you to buy the hardware to play it. Blu-ray movies on the other hand are a killer app because they have done just that, got many to buy PS3's to play them.

That be more like a "killer feature", wouldn't it? Nevertheless, BluRay was the feature that made it worthwhile in purchasing a PS3 (along with MGS) for myself.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Except these are different things. The 'super awesome E3'05 trailer' was just a trailer, the Mad World thing was the commercial Microsoft used to promote the game. It's where the marketing argument stems from; even if Sony's marketing isn't bad, the company that does marketing for MS is remarkable. Mad World was captivating, despite it having nothing to do with the game it's trying to sell. Their Halo 3 (from the same team) ad had me interested in the game (also for not resembling the game at all), and I don't like Halo. I was onto them for the GeoW2 ad so it wasn't as effective (but I bought the game anyway).

In which case it is indeed the characters that had a great influence on selling these games. The entire Halo3 campaign was about how the Chief is a hero and Mad World worked because of the simpathy for the lonely soldier against impossible odds.

 

[obonicus]

In which case it is indeed the characters that had a great influence on selling these games. The entire Halo3 campaign was about how the Chief is a hero and Mad World worked because of the simpathy for the lonely soldier against impossible odds.

Not in my own little bit of anecdotal evidence, no. I was interested in Halo 3 because I thought I'd see real war on Earth, I'd see the Covenant glass cities, that it'd be more than a chase for the MacGuffin. For Gears of War, it looked better than anything else I had seen and more or less for the same reason -- destroyed beauty was appealing. Of course, destroyed beauty became a tiny footnote in a testosterone-fest. But I liked GeoW1.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

We've been through this with a whole topic, and yes, Master Chief and Marcus are quite memorable characters.

The are memorable ONLY because of the game, and not the other way around however.

Regards,
SB

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Following this Logic, KZ2 should have sold more than Gears and Halo combined. You know, with the super awesome E3'05 trailer and the outstanding nextgen graphics.

Yet somehow it did not happen.

Well, duh... Games sell games. Characters do not sell games. Unless it's a movie tie-in. But then it's the movie selling the game.

I don't know a single person in real life or the internet that bought Halo 3 for Master Chief. What did they buy Halo 3 for? Because Halo has a reputation as being one of the best if not the best (at the time) FPS games on console. And it had a reputation as having THE best multiplayer on console.

Buying it for Master Chief? That's a bit of a joke.

Regards,
SB

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Neither app really had that much appeal within the PS3's userbase. If your app can't resonate with a large segment of PS3 owners, its hard to imagine that your app can do a good job selling PS3es. You only have to look at the response to R2 to surmise, that R1 success in terms of moving software had more to do with the relatively lack of titles available during the first 8-10 months of the PS3 life than a relatively strong affinity for the game itself.

The problem with that reasoning is that the competition has shown that a FPS done right has a HUGE draw on the PS3. COD 4/5 continues to sell well, and currently has the longest legs on the console.

If anything that should point to PS3 users wanting a good FPS, but being overall disappointed by KZ2 and Resistance 2. If I remember correctly Resistance 1 sold rather well for a launch title. And of the current exlusives KZ2 is showing some legs, probably due to the developers listening to the users and adjusting/fixing multiplayer and adding content.

Regards,
SB

 

[paawl]

I think that Sony's killer apps should have been:

God of War
Gran Turismo
Metal Gear Solid
Final Fantasy

From my PS1, the games I remember are FF, MGS, and GT.

From my PS2, the games I remember the most are FF, MGS, GT, and God of War.

If God of War 2 had shipped for the PS3 in 2007, even if it was graphically underwhelming on the PS3, the gameplay is there, Kratos is a memorable character, and gamers like myself would have stood in line to buy PS3s to play the next game in the God of War franchise.

If GT5, or even a complete version of GT4:HD, had been available within a year of the PS3's launch, it would have moved systems.

If FFXIII had been released on the PS3 before this year, and before Square had a chance to take it multi-platform to the Xbox 360, it would have sold PS3s.

With the exception of MGS4, which, as many have noted, did sell systems, the PS3 will have been out for three years by the time any of those other titles ship. It's too late, and I'm tempted to say, at least as far as Sony's internal studios, Polyphony Digital and SCEA Santa Monica, go, it represents grossly incompetent management of those studios and their properties. (Square at least has a reason to delay FFXIII to avoid DQIX, and a reason to release FFXII on the PS2, but what's Sony's excuse for not having God of War 2 on PS3 and for not releasing GT5 within five years of GT4!?!)

 

[TheChefO]

Buying it for Master Chief? That's a bit of a joke.

Regards,
SB

While this is true, it doesn't change the fact that the character and story world are compelling. They draw the gamer in and keep them interested (much more so with Halo 1 but that's another story).

If a gamer doesn't care about the character or the character's world isn't compelling or interesting, they won't stick around.