Almost 3 Years And PS3's First Party Still Does Not Have A Killer App?
- Thread starter TEXAN*
- Start date
The link to the GAF thread was the second post, so at least for myself, it is more the surprise not at the duplicate thread, but that the OP is not the same poster on both forums.
In any event, TEXAN*, if you read the first sentence of your co-opted thread and read the titles of the recent threads you've spawned... well, "no trolling or console warz" applies. I'll leave the thread alone because it's not inherently flawed, but please tone down on the spawning of 'Sega the fallen king' and 'Sony the abandoned' threads.
In any event, TEXAN*, if you read the first sentence of your co-opted thread and read the titles of the recent threads you've spawned... well, "no trolling or console warz" applies. I'll leave the thread alone because it's not inherently flawed, but please tone down on the spawning of 'Sega the fallen king' and 'Sony the abandoned' threads.
I totally agree with the OP. I've thought this for a while.
Sony is missing a "Halo", or anything close. Of course, it's not easy to make one of those. But the fact is they've failed.
I think as the generation winds on, and it becomes more apparent the PS3 isn't likely to breakout, this issue can be looked at now. We're almost looking at postmortems.
Not to say MS first party is some smashing success. Hardly. Games like Fable and Forza are nice million sellers, lineup rounders, but they're no Halo either. I'd throw them in with Sony's first party efforts in the "not Halo" pool. Theyre not selling anybody systems.
The games I would put anywhere close to Halo (for the HD twins)
, I'd say COD: MW series, and maybe Gears of War. I may be overrating Gears of War. With COD selling what it does, it has to be up there with Halo. Probably the one true contender. Of course though, it's not an exclusive.
Frankly I dont think anything but a FPS can have this kind of pull with western audiences, either. GT5 will sell a lot, but it just doesnt have that attractive power imo, because it's not an FPS.
I think it's possible that Sony hasn't focused hard enough on developing a top FPS, because of their Japanese management. Certainly they know it's important, they gave it a very top notch try with Killzone 2, which for whatever reason didn't catch fire. But their tries beyond that, I guess Resistance, Resistance 2, MAG, can be faulted for lacking ambition imo.
I look at the exclusive FPS (for some reason I practically consider Gears a FPS, though it's technically a TPS) each holiday season as THE key system selling title of every year, and the matchups have not favored Sony imo. 2006- Gears vs Resistance. 2007 Halo 3 versus...nothing? 2008 Gears 2 versus Resistance 2. 2009, ODST versus, nothing again now that MAG is delayed. Now people may not like ODST on message boards, but it has Halo stamped on it. Which do you think will have more pull with consumers? And that's before MAG got delayed.
Uncharted could be said to have some shooter to it I suppose, especially considering I counted Gears for 360. So in that case you can credit Sony Uncharted 1 in 07, and Uncharted 2 in 09, as entries with at least some shooter in them. But imo clearly Uncharted is less shootery than Gears, and it's not an FPS at all, so you're still left with ODST with an FPS walkover for holiday 09. How can Sony let that happen?
Sony is missing a "Halo", or anything close. Of course, it's not easy to make one of those. But the fact is they've failed.
I think as the generation winds on, and it becomes more apparent the PS3 isn't likely to breakout, this issue can be looked at now. We're almost looking at postmortems.
Not to say MS first party is some smashing success. Hardly. Games like Fable and Forza are nice million sellers, lineup rounders, but they're no Halo either. I'd throw them in with Sony's first party efforts in the "not Halo" pool. Theyre not selling anybody systems.
The games I would put anywhere close to Halo (for the HD twins)
, I'd say COD: MW series, and maybe Gears of War. I may be overrating Gears of War. With COD selling what it does, it has to be up there with Halo. Probably the one true contender. Of course though, it's not an exclusive.
Frankly I dont think anything but a FPS can have this kind of pull with western audiences, either. GT5 will sell a lot, but it just doesnt have that attractive power imo, because it's not an FPS.
I think it's possible that Sony hasn't focused hard enough on developing a top FPS, because of their Japanese management. Certainly they know it's important, they gave it a very top notch try with Killzone 2, which for whatever reason didn't catch fire. But their tries beyond that, I guess Resistance, Resistance 2, MAG, can be faulted for lacking ambition imo.
I look at the exclusive FPS (for some reason I practically consider Gears a FPS, though it's technically a TPS) each holiday season as THE key system selling title of every year, and the matchups have not favored Sony imo. 2006- Gears vs Resistance. 2007 Halo 3 versus...nothing? 2008 Gears 2 versus Resistance 2. 2009, ODST versus, nothing again now that MAG is delayed. Now people may not like ODST on message boards, but it has Halo stamped on it. Which do you think will have more pull with consumers? And that's before MAG got delayed.
Uncharted could be said to have some shooter to it I suppose, especially considering I counted Gears for 360. So in that case you can credit Sony Uncharted 1 in 07, and Uncharted 2 in 09, as entries with at least some shooter in them. But imo clearly Uncharted is less shootery than Gears, and it's not an FPS at all, so you're still left with ODST with an FPS walkover for holiday 09. How can Sony let that happen?
As I've mentioned before in other similar threads, the notion of 'killer app' is often skewed by a few very freak cases. LBP was a killer app in that it sold PS3s. It may not have sold many millions, but it was reason to get a PS3 instead of an XB360. History shows most consoles from the past few generations haven't been bought for one particular title. Halo/Gears and Mario are exceptions. Most PS2 owners didn't buy GT3 nor GOW nor GTA. It's the range of titles that sells a platform, the entire value proposition of the exclusives. PS3 is unlikely to be sold en masse on the strength of KZ2 alone or LBP alone or GT5 alone or GoW3 alone. But it is going to see sales because of people wanting to play several exclusives. Similarly if all XB360 had was it's killer applications of Gears and Halo, it'd have stopped selling by now. Obviously some titles are going to up the entire value proposition considerable for certain niche markets, but it's still part of the whole package deal.
When I was a kid, I can remember there were certain games that every kid wanted to play. For the NES, it was Super Mario 3. For SNES, it was Mario World. For N64 it was Goldeneye. For Playstation it was Tekken. For Genesis it was Sonic. For Xbox it was obviously Halo, and 360 Gears and Halo 3. I have no idea what the big title was on the PS2 at launch, but I didn't follow consoles at all at that point.
GTA and Gran Turismo. Both are in the 12-15 million range, which is insane. Of the top 20 selling games of all time, these are the only 2 franchises not published by Nintendo.
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RenegadeRocks
Legend
Sony just lacks marketing skills of MS. Sony had killer apps in MGS4, KZ2(nill markeitng comapred to Halo3(10 million just for marketing) and Gears 2), LBP(could have been THE TITLE had everyone outside the internet known about it ! No one does !).
MGS4 had a good marketing campaign, and has a loyal fan base, and It moved units. I, for one, have never seens ads for any of those titles outside the Net, except for God Of war which Sony makes sure is seen by everyone. But, by now, God Of War has fan base already.
KZ2 required HUGE marketing near launch, something like HALO3 where thay made everyone "believe" that there is no world beyond this point if u don't play HALO3. Similarly, we need marketing for R2, LBP and Uncharted 2. These titles are Killer apps, but people need to know about them to buy them. They need to be impressed BEFORE they get to play them, coz everyone was inmpressed after playing them, but you need to get people to get to that point of buying it.
Where's the marketing for Infamous?!?!?! I bought it solely because of the demo, otherwise, I thought that it was a generic game with nothing new. There are millions who still think that, they need to know and get impressed before they buy something. Where's the marketing SONY?
I think it is criminal to all the studios who make games exclusively for Sony, they never get the kind of marketing MS gives its exclusives. Sony needs to keep up with the times, or the generation of gamers who still have more faith in Sony's choice of picking games will soon get old and the new generation will only see what is being shown in fron of their eyes, that is , ads of MS titles.
I think it is already happening, that is why all teenagers are on the 360 and older people on the ps3 !
MGS4 had a good marketing campaign, and has a loyal fan base, and It moved units. I, for one, have never seens ads for any of those titles outside the Net, except for God Of war which Sony makes sure is seen by everyone. But, by now, God Of War has fan base already.
KZ2 required HUGE marketing near launch, something like HALO3 where thay made everyone "believe" that there is no world beyond this point if u don't play HALO3. Similarly, we need marketing for R2, LBP and Uncharted 2. These titles are Killer apps, but people need to know about them to buy them. They need to be impressed BEFORE they get to play them, coz everyone was inmpressed after playing them, but you need to get people to get to that point of buying it.
Where's the marketing for Infamous?!?!?! I bought it solely because of the demo, otherwise, I thought that it was a generic game with nothing new. There are millions who still think that, they need to know and get impressed before they buy something. Where's the marketing SONY?
I think it is criminal to all the studios who make games exclusively for Sony, they never get the kind of marketing MS gives its exclusives. Sony needs to keep up with the times, or the generation of gamers who still have more faith in Sony's choice of picking games will soon get old and the new generation will only see what is being shown in fron of their eyes, that is , ads of MS titles.
I think it is already happening, that is why all teenagers are on the 360 and older people on the ps3 !
I've actually seen a lot of commercials for Infamous on tv, more than I see for most games. The same was true for Killzone2. I saw that add at least twice each time I went to the gym. Plus, those games were advertised all over the internet, and internet advertising is huge for games. Killzone 2 had so many "previews" on gaming websites it was nuts.
Lacked ambition? Hmm. I don't quite agree with that analysis - Resistance with 40 players or Resistance 2 with 60 players and online coop was ambitious enough, including dedicated servers. Killzone 2 is definitely ambitious enough. MAG with 256 players online? No doubt about it. Warhawk wasn't bad either, especially so early on. Personally, I think that there are way too many shooters. I buy far too many of them because they are quite excellent, but I'd rather have the energy spent elsewhere.
I think Halo fans bought the 360 en masse. I doubt there are that many new converts among the 360 crowd - those that are new converts tend to come for different games, multiplatform games in combination with price. Halo players are gamers that love to go online, and gladly pay a live gold subscription because especially early on it offered them stuff much unlike anything else, and many were already aware of the benefits of Live through the original Xbox.
DuckThor Evil
Legend
I think GT 5 will be killer app in every sense of the word. The demo of that game has already sold grazy numbers. Sony could use a "mascot" killer app also though. Uncharted is a great game, but Drake is too ordinary to become a exciting mascot. The main character needs to be something extraordinary and stand on a pedestal 
Maybe with superpowers...
/puts pinkie in front of his mouth
I mean there is something about Masterchief as even I went to the midnight launch event for halo 2 and 3 and I never do that, somehow you just get so hyped.
Maybe with superpowers...
/puts pinkie in front of his mouth
I mean there is something about Masterchief as even I went to the midnight launch event for halo 2 and 3 and I never do that, somehow you just get so hyped.
Most owners of any console don't own the killer app of their consoles. Killer apps are movers of consoles during initial release but their greatest impact is acting as catalysts to future sales. GTA 3 and GT 3 help move alot of PS2 initially but they basically made the PS2 the console to buy. When prospective buyers, years later, was asking which console has the best games, those franchises were a big part of the reason "PS2" was the likely the answer.
Halo 3 and Gears have helped the 360 in that manner so has Wii Fit and Wii Sports for the Wii. The top selling high quality titles act a major influence on how well a console's library will help influence console sales but its the standouts that get denoted killer apps because their individual influences are much larger than other titles. Huge sales of the actual app helps because it allows deep penetration into all segments of the userbase from casual to hardcore. High quality helps because it allows a big segment of the gaming media to extol the merits of the individual app. Those two actions serves as influences to prospective buyers in the present and the future by creating a perception of the console that last well past the intial sales of those killer apps.
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I think that describes myself pretty well. My first Xbox game was Halo. Still have it & every sequel since.
Tommy McClain
The only one's I can think of to add to the list are: Untold legend, R&C Quest for Booty, White Knight Chronicles, and Wipeout. But your right, there isn't as much difference in diversity as I thought there was.
It does show that Sony has released more games (35), then Microsoft (24), with the Xbox 360 being a year longer on the market. Perhaps between Sony's own games and 3rd party games, gamers have too much to choose from as far as good games go. I mean who's going to buy all, or even most, games Sony releases during a holiday season.
Shouldn't we also count DD titles from PSN and XBLA that Sony & Microsoft published?
Tommy McClain
mrcorbo wasn't, though. But we could do it. Doesn't it get more confusing, though? Braid's publisher status is confusing enough.
Also, it's arguable whether anyone will buy a console for PSN/arcade titles.
I must be in the twilight zone ...
da da duuuuuuuuhhhh
Seriously I don't think that is the case. Sure they could have pushed a single title harder, but you can't go around throwing millioms of dollars in ads for every title out there.
MS stuck their neck out there with Gears. It was an unknown commodity and the userbase at the time was very small. Lucky for them, the campaign turned into massive sales and launched a successful IP. Not all games get this treatment though. In fact, I think only two franchises had such star treatment on xb360.
Could sony have pumped more into KZ2 or resistance? Sure, but it may not have helped. I think the key may have already been pointed out by a previous poster in this thread for why Sony titles haven't resonated with gamers:
Character
Who is the main character of Halo?
How about Gears?
Easy ones ... because they are memorable.
How about Resistance?
KZ2?
Drake is memorable, but only as an ordinary man ... he needs more charm, comedy, something else to remember him by if it isn't being a "kick ass dude".
Some might reply with GTA3. It's true the main character was a faceless dude, but the game didn't rely on the main character for it's draw, it was what the character could do that no other character before him could do. The freedom is what drew players in.
With that mold broken, one can't stand on it alone.
Sony needs to develop some characters that will inspire.
I disagree with that LBP has had a fair bit of exposure outside of the internet. The main drawback for LBP is it isn't the game it was going to be. Had the final product been as described during it's development, with constructing constituting a part of gameplay, it would have done much better. As it is, it is, sadly, a difficult platformer with a level editor. The editor is way cool and attracts a lot of attntion, and MM deserve makor kudos, but it sadly could have been so much more
Right. Okay. In that case, PS3's killer apps were Resistance and Heavenly Sword etc. No title was enough to justify the huge asking price to multiple millions of shoppers though. Halo was. Gears was. But I don't think anyone can predict those things up front. I suppose if they could, every console would launch with a stellar line-up and sell 10 million units overnightdobwal said:
TheChefO said:
You think generic space-marines, especially faceless, voiceless ones, are more memorable characters than a well rounded, humourous, convincingly human and well acted Drake? Each to their own, I guess. I'd also point to Sackboy, a vastly more appealing character than pretty much any game out there, but that's not reason to buy a PS3 in itself. I personally don't believe in a Mascot character having much impact. It's good for advertising, but I think it's the game, not the character, that sells units. When PS3 launched, the early adopters who value FPS and were wanting a next-gen shooter had been satisfied with XB360 for a year. Had PS3 launched first, Gears may well have sold but a tiny fraction of what it did. I don't know. Maybe there's just 15 million people out there who are so excited to virtually chainsaw an enemy that XB360 would remain the only console of choice?
