Silent_Buddha
Legend
Probably the most surprising thing of this generation considering how many RPGs were available for PS1/2.
Regards,
SB
Almost 3 Years And PS3's First Party Still Does Not Have A Killer App?
- Thread starter TEXAN*
- Start date
Probably the most surprising thing of this generation considering how many RPGs were available for PS1/2.
Regards,
SB
Lucid_Dreamer
Veteran
MORE selection isn't a very solid argument anymore? That doesn't seem logical. I guess having twice the amount of cars on the track isn't a solid argument either. This is definitely interesting. 50% more resolution wouldn't make that list either? I guess not.
Lucid_Dreamer
Veteran
I guess he forgot Folklore.
MORE selection isn't a very solid argument anymore? That doesn't seem logical. I guess having twice the amount of cars on the track isn't a solid argument either. This is definitely interesting. 50% more resolution wouldn't make that list either? I guess not.
Let's compare features when both products hit the shelf...
I guess others beat me to it, but part of Sony's past strategy was to leverage titles which were very closely associated with the Sony brand (either via exclusivity of some sort or by time exclusiveness) and many of these titles sold very, very well.
Which made Sony's comments about GTA, for example, all that more shocking and why the trickle of franchises that were putting their "prime" releases (e.g. a main RE franchise release, not just a remake or spin off) as multiplatform out of the gate pretty indicative of the issues Sony was facing.
It has the install base to support "killer app" sales and it also has multiplatform titles, like CoD4, that clearly show the platform has the potential. In terms of titles resonating with consumers and marketing it seems the exclusives are just failing to hit those heights.
But looking at the industry as a whole, there are few titles that "make the industry go." For every Halo, GTA, FF, and GT there is a Resistance, Saint's Row, Lost Odessey, and Forza Motorsport. Some of these franchises, given time, polish, and pushing the franchise to reward gamers with what they want may ascend to such heights but it is a tough crowd to break. You see a franchise like CoD make that ascent--and most others do not. It takes a lot of innovating, re-inventing, and avoiding land mines (like poor controls) -- and some dumb luck (a competitor slides a release or has a poor product, you get to be an exclusive launch title, the first to release a major new gameplay mechanic, etc.
Using these sort of criteria derived by other titles that "made it" and others that "didn't quite make it" it is pretty clear that the PS3 has the potential for a killer app (even has a couple multiplatform ones which is a negative due to platform cost) but by the general definition of titles that generate significant sales (e.g. platform, industry, etc), sway market momentum, invent a new "must have genre" etc the only exclusive title to be close is MGS4.
CoD4 is a huge seller on the PS3. It could even be argued it should have set the table and wet the appetite.
I don't think your theory is true, but if it is then what are PS3 gamers buying if they aren't buying FPS? On the verse, seeing as FPS are a huge genre with mega sales, why isn't Sony able to tap this market?
I think having an absolute hit is a balance of title quality, timing, market impact, and effective outreach to consumers pre/post release. A game like KZ2, for example, had the quality but had a couple misses there (controls and coop), was very much delayed (which hurt market impact versus a 2007 release for example), and market reach before release did not generate "killer app" sales and post release it hasn't been "viral."
What it has done is set the table though for KZ3. There was a lot of unknowns going into KZ2 based on KZ1. The franchise is a real player now and could one day, if handled correctly, ascend to rare air. But this will only happen if the developers don't buy the fan koolaid that the game is as good as the competition and take a long look on what separates them apart. Everything from story/setting/art to features (are they willing to trade pixels for 4 player coop and a map editor?)
It is the same reason a technically awesome game like Far Cry 2 just doesn't "hit." A couple bad marks and lack of features and polish in areas take down a title that in many way is much better than a CoD4 or Halo 3. What is interesting though is seeing how titles like Far Cry 2 and KZ2 have certain foci on "bleeding edge" traditional tech whereas you see CoD4 winning out with perks, 60fps, and a memoriable story and Halo 3 with theater, forge, MP options galore, and 4 player coop. How we are defining quality and what "makes" a title I think it a bit different to the mass market than it is at Beyond3D.
Added.
Not that it matters WRT to point I was trying to make, but I wouldn't want anyone to think I was intentionally sandbagging the PS3 titles.
Added.
Not that it matters WRT to point I was trying to make, but I wouldn't want anyone to think I was intentionally sandbagging the PS3 titles.
Yeah, I don't think anyone cares whether Genji is there or not.
What are you basing the lost of selling power on? It's not GT5
See, this is what I am talking about.
Forza clearly has NOT ascended to killer app status yet, but MS is making slow steps. Will FM3 get there? Who knows, probably not. Will GT5 sell about 10M like it did on the PS2? Probably not.
What is interesting from a market perspective is GT5 has a valid competitor on the other side of the fence and a HUGE difference: FM2 is 2 years old. Hardcore sim racers playing on consoles have had access to a sim with hundreds of cars for 2 years already. It wasn't a killer app, but it surely blunts the impact of being the ONLY market in town for a sim. This makes it really hard to have killer apps when the other consoles have strong titles that have already attracted consumers.
Lets put it this way: GT5 could have 16 cars, 50% higher resolution, 100% more cars, better FF support, prettier cars, weather, and other features BUT it won't make me buy a PS3. Why? Because a) I didn't buy a console ONLY to have the BEST racer as my ONLY criteria--and I don't many do and b) I have already had the BEST sim on the console market for 2 years. So I may "give up" the features you just mentioned but I get 3rd generation online play with a hundres of options, liveries and customer paint jobs, get to use my current FF wheel, get cars that take damage and can be rolled, and so forth. Would I like 12-16 cars? YES. Even better graphics? OF COURSE! More *unique* cars? YES. Test Drive track and the like... yes, yes, yes.
But are these things going to make a "killer app"? Will they push hardware sales? Will it resonate better? Will GT5 sell another 10m or has there been a shift in marketshare and title competitivity that things have changed?
This isn't about what is the best title, that doesn't define a killer apps. Take Halo 3, a lot of people have taken many a shot at the franchise and think it sub-par and overrated. Yet even if true it was a killer app.
All to say that Mintmaster's point was dead on:
Your response is the defensive tit for tat "my game is better" which TOTALLY fails to address the issue: GT5 is late, there are competitive sims on the other platform for years now, and the market dynamic makes it MUCH more difficult to GT5 to ascend to KILLER APP status. GT1 and GT2 made me get my own PS1 because the N64 had nothing to compare. This gen the 360 has a slew of racers (many more than the PS3) and a couple sims. Even last gen FM1 came out in Spring 2005 iirc (??? or 2004...) well after GT3 and Sony had made a claim on that premier sim racing market.
GT5 may end up being the superior game in every way, greater than every GT before it, so great we at B3D collectively inhale its fumes! But it also faces the most difficult market of any GT5 and the PS3 cost, GT5 delays, and market competition make it the most difficult road every for Killer App status. Your post did nothing to address this point by Mintmaster.
The potential positive impact of Sony's strategy to emphasize its own IPs is that future iterations may yield better results and at that time this initial (relative) lack of success in establishing these IPs could be seen as providing the foundation for that future success.
If it turns out that Sony has it in them to become as self-sufficient as Nintendo when it comes to providing content for their platform the strategy could pay off handsomely, If not, they have ceded that a large percentage of this generation of gamers will have experienced what were previously PS franchises on another platform and will associate those franchises with that platform instead.
If it turns out that Sony has it in them to become as self-sufficient as Nintendo when it comes to providing content for their platform the strategy could pay off handsomely, If not, they have ceded that a large percentage of this generation of gamers will have experienced what were previously PS franchises on another platform and will associate those franchises with that platform instead.
I don't think people want to accept that most of PS3 owners are adults with responsibilities, thus don't have as much gaming time as 360 kids.
You see how easy it is.
I don't think people want to accept that most of PS3 owners are adults with responsibilities, thus don't have as much gaming time as 360 kids.
You see how easy it is.
What is the point of being rich and having expensive things if you cannot play with them
I don't think that was ever that much of a factor - even on PS2 there were racing games looking better then GT4, and that did nothing to affect its selling power (and GT on PS1 was hardly a graphical showcase to begin with).Mintmaster said:
I don't think consumer base really matters that much. PGR3 sold very well and that didn't do anything against F2, not to mention PGR4 bombing (MS marketing made those happen).Joshua Luna said:
Yea yea PGR is arcadey yadayada - if you show the two games to a random person they'll see real cars and real cities and that's about the extent of 'differences' they notice - I don't believe for a second that GT sells 14milions on simulation fanatics - I wouldn't be surprised if significant % of GT userbase are the same people that made NFS2:U the best selling title in the series.
I do think that a significant part of the appeal is that GT gets coverage outside the mainstream media. Particularly in auto enthusiast media. It probably wouldn't do that if it wasn't so 'simmish'.
Lucid_Dreamer
Veteran
Actually, the definition of a "killer app" was posted a page back. It didn't state that the game had to sell a certain amount of copies, so you failed to consider the defintion of a "killer app".
The definition of killer app, again, is as follows:
used to refer to any computer program that is so necessary or desirable that it proves the core value of some larger technology, such as computer hardware like a gaming console, operating system or other software. A killer app can substantially increase sales of the platform that it runs on.
A killer app CAN substantially increase sales of the platform. It didn't say it WILL or MUST increase sales of the platform. For gamers, it is suppose to be about the BEST games. The BEST games are "so desirable that it proves the core value of some larger technology" to real/core gamers. That's where I believe you went off course. :smile:
Just to refresh your memory, my post asked a question. It was Mintmaster that was suppose to "address" MY post (not the other way around).
In the context of this thread, Killer app as a title (game) that moves hardware.
Gran Turismo 5 is definitely a killer app. It's the first proper next-gen Gran Turismo, and it's bound to sell really well. I think you can probably calculate what percentage of gamers GT3 sold to on the PS2 and apply that same percentage to the PS3 install base to get an estimate of numbers sold. It's one of the very few franchises that is so intertwined with car culture even on the car industry level that every new version brings in new people to the platform who only care about cars, and who only play Gran Turismo on their machine once they get the Playstation just to be able to play it.
Even if GT5 had half the things it has going for it now, it will still sell very very well. Just compare a series like Mario Kart on the Nintendo. It's not necessarily good, it barely changes from one platform to the next, but it still sells like bananas. Gran Turismo is the same. God of War 3 will be a 'killer app' also - i.e. it will bring new owners to the platform, but considering the audience it will also be more sensitive to the price of the PS3. If the PS3 has dropped to below $300 by then it will sell well, but if that doens't happen, then GoW3 won't sell considerably more than Killzone 2 I think. And while Final Fantasy XIII won't be an exclusive it will still bring in new owners.
The best thing about the PS2 I think was that it didn't have a 'real' killer app. It just had great games for everybody. Even GTA sold to a minority of Playstation 2 owners, I think. That the 360 has Halo 3 as its killer app (and Gears, etc.) may as well point out to the console still being an fps-player's console.
Part of the problem for the Playstation 3 is that it has been successful in bringing a wide variety of games to the platform. Franchises like Singstar and Buzz don't register with hardcore people here, but they sell really well. More people in my office have Buzz for instance (at least four) than Killzone 2 (just two). Also I'm starting to think that beyond Final Fantasy XIII RPGs just aren't that important. Nobody here is or has played any ever. Open world games have been far more popular (Assassin's Creed and of course particularly GTA IV were played by most).
There are plenty of killer app games, but the biggest weakness for the PS3 is its price. I know many people who regret buying a Wii and want to get a Playstation 3, but before they can justify this to themselves the PS3 will have to be cheaper.
Even if GT5 had half the things it has going for it now, it will still sell very very well. Just compare a series like Mario Kart on the Nintendo. It's not necessarily good, it barely changes from one platform to the next, but it still sells like bananas. Gran Turismo is the same. God of War 3 will be a 'killer app' also - i.e. it will bring new owners to the platform, but considering the audience it will also be more sensitive to the price of the PS3. If the PS3 has dropped to below $300 by then it will sell well, but if that doens't happen, then GoW3 won't sell considerably more than Killzone 2 I think. And while Final Fantasy XIII won't be an exclusive it will still bring in new owners.
The best thing about the PS2 I think was that it didn't have a 'real' killer app. It just had great games for everybody. Even GTA sold to a minority of Playstation 2 owners, I think. That the 360 has Halo 3 as its killer app (and Gears, etc.) may as well point out to the console still being an fps-player's console.
Part of the problem for the Playstation 3 is that it has been successful in bringing a wide variety of games to the platform. Franchises like Singstar and Buzz don't register with hardcore people here, but they sell really well. More people in my office have Buzz for instance (at least four) than Killzone 2 (just two). Also I'm starting to think that beyond Final Fantasy XIII RPGs just aren't that important. Nobody here is or has played any ever. Open world games have been far more popular (Assassin's Creed and of course particularly GTA IV were played by most).
There are plenty of killer app games, but the biggest weakness for the PS3 is its price. I know many people who regret buying a Wii and want to get a Playstation 3, but before they can justify this to themselves the PS3 will have to be cheaper.
vicissitudes
Newcomer
Hi, it's uhh, the guy who wrote the original post. Not that I care that much, but I don't really appreciate you taking my post from NeoGAF verbatim and posting it on another forum as your own. Isn't 13 pages of discussion on GAF enough for you? Anyway, come up with your own material, dude.
