All purpose sales and sales rumors/anecdotes thread next gen+

[Deleted member 11852]

Because NPD data collection is SUPPOSE to be INDEPENDENT of Sony's and Microsoft (re)sources*. Would you only "trust" the actual source info from the same company that's providing it, especially when it pertains to their product. I hope not...

And I hope you realise that knowingly stating false sales information is a violation of SEC Regulations and a Federal crime.

The use of NPD data is nothing to do with any lack of trust in Sony or Microsoft, it's entirely about comparing like with like. Number A and number B, collected exactly the same way from the same retailers. Not two sets of figures representing different collection data.

 

[Shortbread]

And I hope you realise that knowingly stating false sales information is a violation of SEC Regulations and a Federal crime.

Calm down.

When I made that statement, it wasn't stating or impying Sony/MS would lie or fudge their data. But having an independent source as the NPD group is a welcomed source (secondary source) on verifying products/services movement (or the lack of), on the data Sony/MS would have. Having an independent group to verify or acknowledged what the manufacturer has represented (it's data points), goes along way with investors (especially, potentially new ones). I.E. not just relying on one source...

 

[Deleted member 11852]

When I made that statement, it wasn't stating or impying Sony/MS would lie or fudge their data.

You asked if people would trust data from the manufacturer then immediately stated you hoped people wouldn't. How is that not a position of distrust in manufacturer's figures?

Having an independent group to verify or acknowledged what the manufacturer has represented (it's data points), goes along way with investors (especially, potentially new ones). I.E. not just relying on one source...

NPD are not in a position to verify anything, nor is that their role. They are focused in one market (North America) and collect sales information from a segment of that market. None of their information comes from Microsoft or Sony, only select retailers. The useful thing about NPD figures is that are representatively like for like and that is the only useful aspect.

 

[Shortbread]

You asked if people would trust data from the manufacturer then immediately stated you hoped people wouldn't. How is that not a position of distrust in manufacturer's figures?

Would you by a television, a car, a house, or even stock, without doing your homework - of course not. I know I wouldn't. Because a company offers information (now matter how accurate or factually true it is), it is still ones responsibility on researching and verifying what the company is stating with other resources.

NPD are not in a position to verify anything, nor is that their role. They are focused in one market (North America) and collect sales information from a segment of that market. None of their information comes from Microsoft or Sony, only select retailers. The useful thing about NPD figures is that are representatively like for like and that is the only useful aspect.

I never said anything about worldwide sales... so??? And yes, NPD group does verify occasionally it's finding (it's data) with manufacturers.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Would you by a television, a car, a house, or even stock, without doing your homework - of course not.

What does a purchasing decision have to do with trusting manufacturers sales data? Don't try to pull an eastman.

And yes, NPD group does verify occasionally it's finding (it's data) with manufacturers.

[CITATION NEEDED]

 

[Shortbread]

What does a purchasing decision have to do with trusting manufacturers sales data? Don't try to pull an eastman.

You're really blowing this out of proportion and bringing Eastman into this was unnecessary. So I will bowout gracefully on this...

 

[Deleted member 11852]

You're really blowing this out of proportion and bringing Eastman into this was unnecessary. So I will bowout gracefully on this...

If you wanted to be graceful you probably shouldn't have been so easily accepting of Sony claiming to sell 30 million PS4s (source: only Sony) a few thread pages back then decide to post your sentiment that people shouldn't believe manufacturer's sales figures when they are the only source!

But I'll let it slide

 

[Shortbread]

https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/1885162/

Where was Microsoft PR when Sony announced 30.2 million sold-through two weeks ago? Exactly.

I'm trying to figure where in my post I said believe... other than asking where was MS PR afterwards? A rebuttal towards Rangers blurp on PR rebutals. If there is another comment or post, please let me know.

Edit: This is going downhill and I'm partly to blame... so the mods may want to clean this up. Sorry for this...

 

[DJ12]

I think only a few people at GAF feel that the lack of BF win announcement from MS means a BF loss. But it is very possible. If MS had known that they won, they would have, without a doubt, announced it. So they either don't know Sony's numbers, or it was too close to call, or they lost. Same for Sony.

Doubt Sony would mention anything at all until the keynote at PSX given it's so close to the event.

If MS had won, or if even the "xbox family" had won combined sales, we would've heard about it from them. So I am going to stick my neck out and say Sony won and are going to make a statement about it tonight.

 

[DieH@rd]

Few choice quotes from Pachter:

“We should start every console cycle assuming Sony’s going to outsell Microsoft 2 to 1, because they have twice as many people who know what their console is and like.”
“My guess is Microsoft is gonna really try hard to win in the U.S. and they’re probably going to fail. They’re gonna hope to win globally and they’re pretty definitely gonna fail.”

The episode of Patchor Factor in which he said this will be released on YouTube next week [it goes up for SIFTD subscribers early].

 

[Deleted member 11852]

“We should start every console cycle assuming Sony’s going to outsell Microsoft 2 to 1, because they have twice as many people who know what their console is and like.”

A statement that beggars belief. We probably should not assume this given PS3 did not outsell 360 by a margin of 2:1. PS3 was tracking surpass 360 towards the end of the last generation but whichever company sold most consoles, it was marginal. Not to mention even if PS3 outsold 360 on hardware it most certainly did not with software. So uhh..

Good to know that Pachter, who's is supposed to be a professional analyst and has paying clients, is just adopting baseless assumptions using the most recent complete generation of consoles as point of reference.

 

[London Geezer]

We could also start every console generation assuming Nintendo will have even more people who owned the Wii on their side? This logic really doesn't work.

We've seen time and time again how new generations have big surprises - save for ps1 to ps2 perhaps. As much as we like to ignore them, Nintendo smashed last generation and this time around nobody cared about them.

Sony smashed two generations ago and they struggled to get going last time around.

MS started from zero, the original Xbox didn't do amazingly but smashed it last generation. And this time around they're struggling.

If anything, history has told us that no one should just rest on their laurels just because the previous gen went their way.

Success is about decisions made right now and not particularly about previous successes.

And of course we can't discount territorial differences, Sony has had an undeniable lead in Europe and Japan in every generation but even that fluctuated a lot during the years.

 

[dobwal]

I think the reason why MS and Sony only use NPD or another marketing firm's data when making reference to each other is because the data is "clean".

I'd bet that the manufacturers have explicit language in their contracts with retailers that stipulate who can have access to their sales data. NPD is probably authorized because it provides an in depth and intimate look at the overall US market, which is useful for pubs, devs and manufacturers. Other third party marketing firms covering the US are usually scrapping data directly from consumers which isn't subject to any contract language that may exist between retailers and pubs/manufacturers. And most of the time that third party data is limited or unreliable.

Relaying others' data to the public in reference to your own before NPD or other third party market reports would belie that you have data you aren't suppose to have, either by getting proprietary information directly from retailers or by inappropriately getting the NPD reports early. Which is why pre-NPD report PR release denoting a difference in sales between competitors are usually avoided or at least rare.

I am leaning towards that the reason why MS or Sony aren't releasing PR on who won BF is because either they don't know or are not suppose to know.

 

[BRiT]

I am leaning that the reason why MS or Sony aren't releasing PR on who won BF is because either they don't know or are not suppose to know.

It's because of Nintendo.

 

[Clukos]

It's because of Nintendo.

Wii U 2:1 Ps4/X1

The funny thing is, that would probably be a bad thing if Wii U started selling really well all of a sudden with Nintendo planning on moving towards NX.

 

[eastmen]

Next generation is going to be so interesting that its hard to say who will take off.

Will VR rule the day and Sony's head start over the others allow them to take the generation

Will MS catch up on vr or will hololense be the future of Video games ?

Will Nintendo come out of no where and steal the show like they did with the wii.

We've had surprises every gen .

 

[Rangers]

Relaying others' data to the public in reference to your own before NPD or other third party market reports would belie that you have data you aren't suppose to have, either by getting proprietary information directly from retailers or by inappropriately getting the NPD reports early. Which is why pre-NPD report PR release denoting a difference in sales between competitors are usually avoided or at least rare.

I am leaning towards that the reason why MS or Sony aren't releasing PR on who won BF is because either they don't know or are not suppose to know.

I've always thought the platform holders can get a decent idea of sales. They likely talk somewhat informally with all the major chains. That's were pre-NPD stuff comes from. Like Black Friday PR.

They use and subscribe to NPD though, as the most thorough, official numbers. And since NPD has had Wal Mart for a while now, they get sales numbers directly from almost the entire market, and are going to be close to 100% correct.

We've had surprises every gen .

Indeed, in fact every generation so far has been like a clean slate. Winning the prior generation buys you almost nothing. Personally, I believe that's because hardware is the most important sales factor, and that obviously changes every generation. But yes, Sony's PS4 success buys it very little going into next gen, every gen is a clean restart.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

We've had surprises every gen .

What was the surprise this gen? From the time the consoles were revealed (8GB GDDR5 was a surprise!), it's been playing out exactly as a lot of us expected. I guess the surprise is Nintendo making a weird duffer machine.

 

[Clukos]

Sony shifting to third/second party support more than first party. MS loosing advertising rights for a Bungie game and COD etc.

 

[Shortbread]

Sony shifting to third/second party support more than first party.

I really don't think that is the case. More like Sony's internal teams development cycles has increased (like most developers). The increase in supporting/securing more third party titles is just part of being on top, being competitive, and making sure there are no lengthy dry-spells (gaps) inbetween game releases.