All purpose sales and sales rumors/anecdotes thread next gen+

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Sony announced new cheaper PS3 model in Japan. I wonder if we will ever get 28nm Cell/RSX combo...
I'm a little surprised Sony did not take the opportunity to revamped the DualShock 3 to be more like the DualShock 4. Not with all the PS4 gizmos (new gyros and touch pad) but just in form factor, i.e. better sticks and triggers.
 
What some people are failing to see are the emerging sales trends - as opposed to just focusing on the raw numbers (where the XB1 doesn't look so bad).

We are witnessing a huge shift away from the Xbox camp this gen, which should worry MS. The NPD totals to date stand at 3.76 m vs 3.05 m sold a ratio of 1.23 to 1 in favour of Sony. Whereas at the end of 2010 (halfway through the 7th gen lifecycle) US sales standings for the 360 were 25.4 m vs 15.4 m for PS3 - a ratio of 1.65 to 1 in favour of MS.

So in the first 9 months of the gen - despite the fact that these sales are mostly to early adopters and the platform faithful (rather than more price sensitive consumers) - we are already seeing a massive swing away from MS (and in Xbox heartland no less, the situation is far worse for MS overseas).

This would indicate Xbox owners are switching allegiances to the Sony camp en masse (which is certainly borne out by the anecdotal evidence from online fora).

And it's going to be very difficult for MS to reverse this momentum, especially when they have the clearly weaker console, no USP (with the demise of Kinect), a paucity of AAA 1P studios and lingering image problems.
 
The Last of Us survives for third week.

The PS4 edition of the critically acclaimed title has now been No1 for three weeks in succession, equalling the unbroken 3 week runs of both ‘Watch Dogs’ and ‘Titanfall’ and bettering the 2 weeks of previous Sony PS4 exclusive ‘Infamous: Second Son’. ‘Watch Dogs’ (-22%) holds on to No2 for a third week, while ‘Minecraft: Xbox 360 Edition’ (+1%) jumps 2 places to No3 (its joint highest position of the year so far).

1. The Last of Us Remastered (down 40%)
2. Watch Dogs (down 22%)
3. Minecraft: Xbox 360 Edition (up 1%)
4. Call of Duty: Ghosts (up 7%)
5. Minecraft: PS3 Edition (down 1%)
6. The LEGO Movie Videogame (up 6%)
7. FIFA 14 (down 21%)
8. Grand Theft Auto V (down 27%)
9. Battlefield 4 (down 12%)
10. Titanfall (up 6%)
11. Sniper Elite 3
12. Tomodachi Life
13. Assassin’s Creed IV: Black Flag
14. LEGO Marvel Super Heroes
15. Plants vs Zombies: Garden Warfare
16. Forza 5
17. Terraria
18. Wolfenstein: The New Order
19. Skate 3
20. Mario Kart 8
 
And it's going to be very difficult for MS to reverse this momentum, especially when they have the clearly weaker console, no USP (with the demise of Kinect), a paucity of AAA 1P studios and lingering image problems.

There's an interesting alternative explanation - xbox 360 users aren't upgrading as much as PS3 users.

And, if you look at the 3rd party games MS 'invested' in - Plants vs zombies garden warfare, titanfall and return of the tomb raider. They're all cross-generation titles (RTR is a very unusual title for that reason)...

So, is there even an argument that MS is trying to 'stall' the XB1/PS4 battle by trying to lengthen the lifespan of the 360?
 
There's an interesting alternative explanation - xbox 360 users aren't upgrading as much as PS3 users.

Excellent point, I was just going to mention that as well. Although I think the theory is a bit more complex: the 360 has been on the market for longer than the PS3 has - so initial buyers have stuck with a Xbox far longer than initial buyers have with a PS4. So technically, I think both platforms should have a similar share of people looking to upgrade to next-gen consoles. Yet, still, the rate is in PS4s favor.

One factor could be price. A cheaper next gen console makes it easier to upgrade and invest than one that is more expensive. From what I understand though - the Xbox price is now identical in form of the Kinect-less version, so technically, this would have been the reason for sales to increase (which they have not significantly, relative to the PS4 sales).

So, all in all, I think it's a combination of a few factors:

  • Xbox users converting to PS4 (we had a nice poll prior to launch that highlighted that there are people who are in this group), due to various reasons ranging from better/cheaper hardware or not happy with the direction Microsoft seemed to have taken.
  • Xbox users holding back with a next-gen console purchase - perhaps because they are unsure of the next Xbox due to negative press and worse sales relative to the PS4, so are treating it with a bit extra bit of caution before they upgrade.
  • The PlayStation is the more attractive platform, but people who perhaps purchased a 360 because it was the first next-gen console in 2006 and the PS3 overpriced, now have no reason to because both consoles launched side by side.

All in all, Sony is on a great road so far. They might not be way ahead in the NA market (Xbox's turf), but they are using great world-wide demand and sales to make it seem the PS4 is the "to have console" - followed by success, stronger sales. This momentum is carrying over to markets like NA where people who have no stake into a consoles eco-system may find themselve turning to the more popular console.
 
There's an interesting alternative explanation - xbox 360 users aren't upgrading as much as PS3 users.

You're assuming that people only upgrade to the same manufacturer as their last console. People are much more fickle than that.

I upgraded from my 360 (only console I bought last-gen) to a WiiU and a PS4.
 
You're assuming that people only upgrade to the same manufacturer as their last console. People are much more fickle than that.

Few things are ever absolute, but I would certainly expect an X360 owner to be more likely to upgrade to XB1 than a random consumer. (existing friends on XBL, franchises they are familiar with etc).
 
I don't believe in the notion that less 360 gamers are upgrading than PS3 owners, and I believe the PS4 is just being chosen more often by both 360 and PS3 owners. Sony could really put the hurt on Microsoft if they were to drop the price of the PS4 to $349. Sony has all the momentum, and simply matching the price of the PS4 doesn't offset the fact that the PS4 is the more powerful hardware, and people seem to understand that.
 
I don't believe in the notion that less 360 gamers are upgrading than PS3 owners, and I believe the PS4 is just being chosen more often by both 360 and PS3 owners.

I agree, and I think this is what Interference was suggesting too.

In politics swing scales tend to be used to show how much sway from one party to another occurs. It's not simply enough to say it's 'only' 1.21:1 in PS4's favour as the swing in the USA has been much greater than that. If you were to see one political party taking so much ground from another (in their heartland) it would be seen as historic.
 
Few things are ever absolute, but I would certainly expect an X360 owner to be more likely to upgrade to XB1 than a random consumer. (existing friends on XBL, franchises they are familiar with etc).

But that never happens. Console history has clearly shown consumers don't care that much for platform loyalty, they just go where the games they want to play are.
 
We are witnessing a huge shift away from the Xbox camp this gen, which should worry MS. The NPD totals to date stand at 3.76 m vs 3.05 m sold a ratio of 1.23 to 1 in favour of Sony. Whereas at the end of 2010 (halfway through the 7th gen lifecycle) US sales standings for the 360 were 25.4 m vs 15.4 m for PS3 - a ratio of 1.65 to 1 in favour of MS.

Just to highlight Interference's point again; the change highlighted here is huge.

Anyone fancy creating a political swing scale for this?

Edit: A Google search later, I read a swing of 22% described as "off the Richter scale".
 
Noticed Amazon has more XBO games than PS4 ones in top 100 currently, is that a first?

#4 PS4 Diablo
#10 XBO Destiny
#12 XBO Diablo
#14 PS4 Last of Us Remastered
#15 PS4 Madden 15
#16 Wii U Mario Kart 8
#17 Wii U Hyrule Warriors
#18 PS4 Destiny
#19 XBO Destiny Limited Edition
#22 Wii U Super Smash Bros bundle
#32 XBO Halo MCC
#33 XBO Madden 15 Ultimate Edition
#36 XBO Madden 15
#40 XBO COD AW Zero Day
#42 PS4 Madden 15 Ultimate Edition
#46 XBO COD Ghosts
#47 PS4 Destiny Limited Edition
#52 PS4 Watch Dogs
#61 Super Mario 3D World Wii U
#63 XBO AC IV Black Flag
#65 XBO COD AW Atlas Edition
#77 XBO Battlefield 4
#90 PS4 COD Ghosts
#98 PS4 COD AW Zero Day

I count 11 XBO vs 9 PS4. XBO has been getting a lot more active on the charts lately, also 4 hardware SKU's in the top 100 (Regular, Madden, COD, and Sunset Overdrive)

You usually get both versions of multiplats in the top 100, so nobody will gain an edge on titles in the top 100 there. Where XBO got it's edge was on older titles like ACIV, COD Ghosts, and BF4 that have been discounted to ~$25 for a while the PS4 version is still $39. Nonetheless, interesting regardless of the reasons.

The weird thing is as of a couple days ago the Madden Xbox One hardware SKU was nowhere to be found (even though release was just a few days away, and anybody ordering a console would have to wait a few days shipping anyway). So I was wondering if people were going to turn down a free game for absolutely no reason.

It looks like now the Madden SKU may eclipse it as it's shot to 55 vs the regular SKU at 44

Also the XBO version of Destiny has maintained it's lead over the PS4 one for like 3 weeks now. I'm not really sure why...my guess is PS4 people ordered it earlier, and TLOUR defrayed some sales whereas XBO people have no big exclusive nearby. XBO version leads in August #13 vs #18. And also won July #4 vs #5.

Year to date the PS4 Destiny still leads #18 to #23 for XBO version, though.
 
But that never happens. Console history has clearly shown consumers don't care that much for platform loyalty, they just go where the games they want to play are.
That's not entirely true. Customers can be swayed, but there's an automatic favouritism to something known. On 360, you have a friend's list and achievements and potentially media content and games you liked that'll be exclusive all as reasons to stay with Xbox. Moving to PS4 means losing all that, not to mention other differences (controller is significant to some). People that chose 360 last gen are more likely to choose XB1 this gen compared to people who didn't buy 360 last are inclined to get XB1 this gen.

Just to highlight Interference's point again; the change highlighted here is huge.

Anyone fancy creating a political swing scale for this?
Last gen Sony:MS rating at 1:1.65 = 38% market share
This gen Sony:MS rating at 1.23:1 = 55% market share
17% shift.
 
Last gen Sony:MS rating at 1:1.65 = 38% market share
This gen Sony:MS rating at 1.23:1 = 55% market share
17% shift.

Yep, by a political standpoint that's a huge shift.

I guess you could do a year-by-year swing between them to really understand how fickle gamers are. We won't know how massive this is until we can compare to previous years.

Both are selling well, but the swing from one to another is unquestionably large.

This generation is actually going to give us a perfect like-for-like comparison since both were released within a such short space of time.

It also shows quite how brave they both were by releasing at the same time.
 
That's not entirely true.
Just out of curiosity, what do you think the % of true platform fan boys make up the whole of a specific platform brand?

you have a friend's list and achievements and potentially media content and games you liked that'll be exclusive all as reasons to stay with Xbox. Moving to PS4 means losing all that, not to mention other differences (controller is significant to some). People that chose 360 last gen are more likely to choose XB1 this gen compared to people who didn't buy 360 last are inclined to get XB1 this gen.
Switching generations means cutting ties with the past platform. I get what you saying, I am just saying that the % of those people who really care to stick to one platform over generations is relatively small (Lots of things change in 8 years) else Nintendo would have dominated every generation post crash.

Side note: What an advantage platforms like steam have, they never have to worry about generation gaps. With commodity hardware finally winning out its going to be really interesting to see what the set-top console industry looks like in 5-8 years.
 
Just out of curiosity, what do you think the % of true platform fan boys make up the whole of a specific platform brand?
10%? Depending on when you measure. The first 3 million is almost 100% platform fans. ;)

I get what you saying, I am just saying that the % of those people who really care to stick to one platform over generations is relatively small.
I agree, but that's different to what you first said which is that 'it never happens'. Dumbo11 is right in that given two people, one who owned 360 and one who didn't, the odds of the 360 owner getting an XB1 will be higher than the non-360 owner. It might only be 10% higher (or 50%, or 3% :shrug: ), but it's still higher.
 
Excellent interview from Eurogamer on Shuhei Yoshida about this subject:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...itas-no-show-and-the-mystery-of-10m-ps4-sales

The 10m sell through in the first nine months is well beyond what we had hoped for. As you know, we have struggled to keep up with demand of PS4 for so many months. It was hard to find and purchase PS4. Now we are able to supply units so in every territory I believe you can find PS4. So we just managed to catch up with demand.

It's just beyond our imagination. We are so happy. But I for one am a bit nervous because we do not completely understand what's happening. You need to understand why your products are selling well so you can plan for the future, right? It defied the conventional thinking. Lots of people thought the dedicated game hardware might not be needed going forward, but still lots of people are very excited. When you see the new games coming out and being announced this E3 and Gamescom, I think there's a good enough reason for a gamer to believe this is something worth investing in.
(...)
As soon as we see a great sales number, our instinct tells us we should be concerned about future sales, right? Are we exhausting all the core gamers? If we sell this number of units, there are no more consumers we can sell to. That's a really terrifying prospect. So we want to understand who are these consumers who we do not necessarily consider core gamers, who are purchasing PS4 and why they are doing it and what they are doing with PS4, so we can create a bit more of a positive future, rather than saying, wow, we have sold to every single core gamer. So that's what we are doing.
 
^^ I mentioned this before, but females have been heavily purchasing PS4, compared to XB1. Women love trends, and the hottest items in style... don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to generalize, but when women account for >23% (PS4) and ~2% (XB1) sales, it's hard not to notice. Common ask "why?"... PS4 is easier to setup/use and social/share apps are more interesting. Actually, the PSEYE owes most of its current success to women consumers.

It's such a problem, an MS Executive admitted months ago, that XB1 user base is pretty much male oriented. And they needed to correct this...
 
Noticed Amazon has more XBO games than PS4 ones in top 100 currently, is that a first?


I count 11 XBO vs 9 PS4. XBO has been getting a lot more active on the charts lately, also 4 hardware SKU's in the top 100 (Regular, Madden, COD, and Sunset Overdrive)
My guess is that the spike in pre-orders of the new SKUs are causing people to order games now, so essentially many of the software sold now are from future customers, so-to-speak.


The weird thing is as of a couple days ago the Madden Xbox One hardware SKU was nowhere to be found (even though release was just a few days away, and anybody ordering a console would have to wait a few days shipping anyway). So I was wondering if people were going to turn down a free game for absolutely no reason.

It looks like now the Madden SKU may eclipse it as it's shot to 55 vs the regular SKU at 44
A bit unusual considering new bundles usually start high, drop off, then start to gain traction near release. So the only weird part is that the bundle started low, and is now just starting to rise, closer to release.

Also the XBO version of Destiny has maintained it's lead over the PS4 one for like 3 weeks now. I'm not really sure why...my guess is PS4 people ordered it earlier, and TLOUR defrayed some sales whereas XBO people have no big exclusive nearby. XBO version leads in August #13 vs #18. And also won July #4 vs #5.

Year to date the PS4 Destiny still leads #18 to #23 for XBO version, though.
You're forgetting about the PS4 Destiny bundle, which has been ranking in the top 20 for the past few weeks, and has been in the top 30 for the past month. It's actually been ranked higher than the standalone game this past week.

Also, you're right... many PS4 owners pre-ordered earlier. Destiny was first announced last year at the PS4 announcement event. Destiny will no doubt sell more on PS4. Considerably more if you count bundle sales.
 
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There's an interesting alternative explanation - xbox 360 users aren't upgrading as much as PS3 users.

And, if you look at the 3rd party games MS 'invested' in - Plants vs zombies garden warfare, titanfall and return of the tomb raider. They're all cross-generation titles (RTR is a very unusual title for that reason)...

So, is there even an argument that MS is trying to 'stall' the XB1/PS4 battle by trying to lengthen the lifespan of the 360?

Perhaps, but I don't think that's likely - MS for one is definitely trying to get all the 360 owners to upgrade to XB1, rather than keep them on 360.

I mean what good would that accomplish in the long term? It would just see MS cede the 8th gen to Sony and they can probably make more money off XB1 owners than 360 owners (margins on the XB1 hardware itself, additional controller sales, higher game prices, and less impact on new game sales by a huge used game market and large library of AAA titles that you have on 360).

Nah, that both PS3 and 360 owners are upgrading to PS4 rather than XB1, seems to be the better hypothesis. I mean it's completely borne out by the amount of anecdotal evidence of gamer sentiment you see on the web.

The past 18 months or so have seen a new favourite pastime emerge at GAF (and other gaming fora) - vociferous ranting about nearly everything big, bad MS and its evil corporate cronies does.

Take for example the Tomb Raider brouhaha - it would be a complete non-event if MS pulled something like that last gen and yet now, even on B3D we have a 19 page thread! about a simple timed exclusivity deal and Xbox management has to do media interviews pleading that the deal 'doesn't come from an evil place'.

Yeah, the swing to Sony we're seeing play out in NPD is just the logical consequence of MS alienating a lot of their core gamer fanbase and as a theory is amply supported by gamer sentiment on the web.
 
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