A Generational Leap in Graphics [2020] *Spawn*

[dobwal]

I have an issue with NPCs. Shadow casting by NPCs can be very inconsistent. When lit by direct sunlight /neon lighting, this doesn't seem to be a problem. Or when walking across a reflective floor, the reflection seems to help with the lack of shadows. But there are a lot of times where the NPCs cast no shadows at all. For some reason, It stands out like a sore thumb to me and is immersion-breaking.

To the point, I turned RT shadows off mid-scene and notice that the non-RT solution does provide shadowing for NPCs in at least most instances where RT doesn't.

I could easily tell the instance I saw NPCs walking outside that RT wasn't on in this video.

Not because the NPC shadowing is bad (it's not all that great), but because it's there.

I don't play with RT shadows. I rather deal with a consistent poor solution than a great solution that's inconsistent in a way that readily creates a distraction. I kept finding myself immediately looking at NPCs feet like I had some kind of shadow and toes (LOL) OCD, which is something I've never done.

 

[BillSpencer]

Also because Ampere's CUDA cores now handle both floating point and integer math, the real world average throughput of the 3080 in a typical float : integer workload of 2:1 would be more like 20TF. Although under those same circumstances the 6800XT would be more like 13-14TF.

Its performance is like an engineering miracle then! The more you know

With 3 out of 4 platforms (if you count Nvidia and AMD as different platforms) using the same RT acceleration/ architecture it is possible that development will focus on that, and later add some extra passes for the Nvidia platform. Currently it is opposite.

FS2020 is also regarded as an generational leap, but that game uses DX11 right?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Sony throwing the game out of the store could be to motivate CDPR to create a good PS5 version? But maybe it will do the opposite.

That's fanboy conspiracy thinking. CDPR have already made their game, well most of it, and now to make money they need to sell it to the widest possible audience. Deliberately releasing sub-standard games again is not going to do their already tattered reputation any good.

I'm personally enjoying it and looking forward to seeing what new bugs hot fix 1.06 brought overnight. In 1.05 you would get locked into the settings menu with no way out! Coooool!

 

[chris1515]

That's the first time I heard midrange. Last generation it was low-end parts right?

I agree that the difference now is smaller than ever; last gen Multiplatform games that were 30 fps on console (everything outside of fighting games, shooters and some racing games) were easily 60 on PC. Now we even have Call of duty ray tracing at 60fps.

Maybe the increased frame rate on consoles allows the PC to have much higher detail again

We can have more 60 fps game on consoles because of the CPU. Last generation, CPU were less powerful than the lowest gaming PC CPU. This was tablet CPU on steroid.

And some PC gamer play above 60. If it is 60 fps on consoles, the game can run at 120 to 150 fps on PC.

This gen of console is mid range pc hardware. Pound sand to your hearts desire if you don’t like hearing that.

Like every other generation, 2nd and 3rd gen games will benefit from a mature toolset but the hardware itself is midrange parts.

Mid gen, it’ll be updated with the latest mid range parts. Yay.

Jaguar CPU was not mid range PC CPU. This time this is better. AMD have some competitive GPU in rasterization but performance is behind in raytracing.

But the situation of the consoles is much better than last generation.

The value is there.

 

[techuse]

We can have more 60 fps game on consoles because of the CPU. Last generation, CPU were less powerful than the lowest gaming PC CPU. This was tablet CPU on steroid.

And some PC gamer play above 60. If it is 60 fps on consoles, the game can run at 120 to 150 fps on PC.



Jaguar CPU was not mid range PC CPU. This time this is better. AMD have some competitive GPU in rasterization but performance is behind in raytracing.

But the situation of the consoles is much better than last generation.

The value is there.

I'm not sure where you are going to get 2 to 2.5x the CPU performance of consoles on PC.

 

[BillSpencer]

I'm not sure where you are going to get 2 to 2.5x the CPU performance of consoles on PC.

16 or 20 core CPUs?

 

[chris1515]

I'm not sure where you are going to get 2 to 2.5x the CPU performance of consoles on PC.

At least 100 fps, CPU frequency are much better on PC GPU and a zen 3 CPU has some IPC improvement too.

 

[dobwal]

I'm not sure where you are going to get 2 to 2.5x the CPU performance of consoles on PC.

Console may have better performing CPUs but they are still contending with the GPU for bandwidth and memory allocation.

And given that Direct Storage and decompression moving to GPU maybe a thing on PCs in the future, PC CPUs are going to free up memory, bandwidth and computation that was traditionally used to service GPUs.

 

[techuse]

Performance doesn't scale anywhere close to linearly with more cores. PC also has much more overhead on the CPU side. I guess we will see how it pans out but I don't have great expectations for high refresh rate gaming once developers start to tap into the console CPU power.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

This gen of console is mid range pc hardware. Pound sand to your hearts desire if you don’t like hearing that.

Like every other generation, 2nd and 3rd gen games will benefit from a mature toolset but the hardware itself is midrange parts.

Mid gen, it’ll be updated with the latest mid range parts. Yay.

At least as far as the calculated graphics performance goes. Honestly, it's better than I could have imagined. I didn't expect to see the consoles performing at 2080 levels in rasterisation. This should actually get better over time too.

The IO should actually outperform the vast majority of PCs, for a short time at least. I doubt we're seeing many games making great use of that just yet.

I think the hardware performs above expectations for the price. Does the PC outperform it/them? Of course, nobody in their right mind would argue otherwise.

 

[chris1515]

And there is good SSD inside the consoles too.

 

[RobertR1]

At least as far as the calculated graphics performance goes. Honestly, it's better than I could have imagined. I didn't expect to see the consoles performing at 2080 levels in rasterisation. This should actually get better over time too.

The IO should actually outperform the vast majority of PCs, for a short time at least. I doubt we're seeing many games making great use of that just yet.

I think the hardware performs above expectations for the price. Does the PC outperform it/them? Of course, nobody in their right mind would argue otherwise.

Yep and it's less R&D overhead overhead for MS/Sony than having custom architectures. Put the order into AMD and focus on your software and marketing.

Should be less work for the devs overtime as well to making multi platform games. Both will learn a lesson from this gen that it's not worth doing Cell/Xenos etc. Makes mid gen refresh and compatibility issues a lot easier as well.

 

[zed]

Which one of the two games looks better?

Side by side, direct comparrison I would say watchdogs.
Though prolly cyberpunk is more fun to play

 

[BillSpencer]

Which one of the two games looks better?

Side by side, direct comparrison I would say watchdogs.
Though prolly cyberpunk is more fun to play

that is fake; with cyberpunk it is at low detail for sure, textures at low probably or some other form of sabotage

also cyberpunk has low quality screen space reflections instead of real ray tracing like watchdogs

 

[Deleted member 86764]

What resolution are those reflections in Cyberpunk? They *appear* low but difficult to tell if that's the secondary material shading.

...but yeah, that video nicely proves the point I've been trying to make on this thread. Clever use of features is more impactful than simply applying all features and expecting it to hide other deficiencies.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

that is fake; with cyberpunk it is at low detail for sure, textures at low probably or some other form of sabotage

also cyberpunk has low quality screen space reflections instead of real ray tracing like watchdogs

Apparently that's everything on what appears to be max settings.

 

[BillSpencer]

Must be a bug then. If it isn’t then at least from the footage I guess the watch dogs is next-next gen

 

[Deleted member 2197]

Apparently that's everything on what appears to be max settings.

View attachment 5181View attachment 5182

It seems he selected Chronomatic Aberration which has a tendency to blur DLSS. Not sure about other options.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

It seems he selected Chronomatic Aberration which has a tendency to blur DLSS. Not sure about other options.

Even taking perceived resolution out of the equation I can't say that 2077 is in any way flattered by that video.

I also find it hard to believe that YouTube compression butchers the image quality in one game but complements it for the other one.

 

[techuse]

That particular comparison Legion looks better but in general no. Also WRT the NPC quality, Legion is hilariously bad.