D
Deleted member 2197
Guest
TBH, I've seen videos that show both games in a far, better light! Wouldn't read too much into this comparison.
BillSpencer
Regular
Watch dogs has a console version but I think that is locked to 30. It is the only game on PS5 that is 30fps come to think of it
In that particular comparison I'd say WD looks better in all but the night walk scene - way better in some cases. However I've seen CB2077 look way better than it's shown there (see the video's I posted further up this thread. That's not to say WD:L maxed out isn't absolutely gorgeous and a definite competitor for CB.
About. On the GPU front (still the most important), the best AMD has to offer right now is a 6900XT, which, with an OC, is close or over 30TF in like-for-like flops (RDNA2 arch), with a close to 25TF without OC. That's three times the capability of the PS5, a extremely high clocking and very wide GPU, with infinity cache to boot.
Then you sit at about 6700/XT level of perf at around 10TF, more BW constrained (share with the system also), and a shared 16GB vram.
Thats not even looking at NVs offerings, which have atleast the same rasterization performance as the mentioned 6900XT/6800XT and below. But with the added tensor hardware for reconstruction tech DLSS, and ray tracing performance thats gobs faster compared to dGPUs, let alone a 10TF gpu in a console.
Ampere are compute monsters aswell, should come to good use with UE5 demo like scenarios.
On the CPU front, things look better then last time atleast. I would still call them mid range, its a previous generation Zen2 gpu which is heavily downclocked, and as the GPU, share the mem BW subsystem. A high clocked 12core zen3 is what i'd call high-end. No pc gamer in their right mind is going to build something with less then a 3700x class gpu.
On the IO front its not all that clear, they should be 'high-end', but then again,NVs Direct Storage PCIE4 Nvme on the GPU compute delivering 14gb/s and higher is already surpassing in raw capabilities. Seeing how 2077 performs the streaming on pc with a fast nvme, thats already working very very well.
Memory, well, as noted above, its 16GB in total, whereas RNDA2 gpus sport that just for the VRAM allocation. SSDs can mitigate that somewhat, but nothing replaces even fast DDR4 ram yet, let alone GDDR6 (x) memory. Latency still is a thing.
They are mid-range machines, at a price to match them. Its all about compromises if you need to sell hardware at a 500 dollar price point.
Optimizations have come a long way, too.
6800XT 14TF, where does that put the PS5 GPU in turn
True. I think ampere can stretch its legs more and more going forward, focus heavy on compute. The 3080 is a 30TF GPU, in different workloads.
WDL on pc defintely looks drop dead amazing with the ray tracing and maxed out settings. CP2077 towers still as the best looker, atleast, so DF thinks.
WLD probably will end up as a runner up.
Still, i think death stranding, horizon zero down, RDR2, they where great looking games. Maxed, they make generational leaps all the more harder. Detroit was very 'photo realistic'.
Absolutely, look at the videos and screenshots posted by members here on CP2077, out of this world looking stuff. That video doesnt do any good to either games. But that was probably the purpose.
Dont forget that everyone will have their own opinions, like said someone could find GTA4 be better looking then GTAV. Theres nothing wrong with that.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
A bug in Cyberpunk?Must be a bug then. If it isn’t then at least from the footage I guess the watch dogs is next-next gen
About. On the GPU front (still the most important), the best AMD has to offer right now is a 6900XT, which, with an OC, is close or over 30TF in like-for-like flops (RDNA2 arch), with a close to 25TF without OC. That's three times the capability of the PS5, a extremely high clocking and very wide GPU, with infinity cache to boot.
Then you sit at about 6700/XT level of perf at around 10TF, more BW constrained (share with the system also), and a shared 16GB vram.
Thats not even looking at NVs offerings, which have atleast the same rasterization performance as the mentioned 6900XT/6800XT and below. But with the added tensor hardware for reconstruction tech DLSS, and ray tracing performance thats gobs faster compared to dGPUs, let alone a 10TF gpu in a console.
Ampere are compute monsters aswell, should come to good use with UE5 demo like scenarios.
On the CPU front, things look better then last time atleast. I would still call them mid range, its a previous generation Zen2 gpu which is heavily downclocked, and as the GPU, share the mem BW subsystem. A high clocked 12core zen3 is what i'd call high-end. No pc gamer in their right mind is going to build something with less then a 3700x class gpu.
On the IO front its not all that clear, they should be 'high-end', but then again,NVs Direct Storage PCIE4 Nvme on the GPU compute delivering 14gb/s and higher is already surpassing in raw capabilities. Seeing how 2077 performs the streaming on pc with a fast nvme, thats already working very very well.
Memory, well, as noted above, its 16GB in total, whereas RNDA2 gpus sport that just for the VRAM allocation. SSDs can mitigate that somewhat, but nothing replaces even fast DDR4 ram yet, let alone GDDR6 (x) memory. Latency still is a thing.
They are mid-range machines, at a price to match them. Its all about compromises if you need to sell hardware at a 500 dollar price point.
Optimizations have come a long way, too.
6800XT 14TF, where does that put the PS5 GPU in turn
True. I think ampere can stretch its legs more and more going forward, focus heavy on compute. The 3080 is a 30TF GPU, in different workloads.
WDL on pc defintely looks drop dead amazing with the ray tracing and maxed out settings. CP2077 towers still as the best looker, atleast, so DF thinks.
WLD probably will end up as a runner up.
Still, i think death stranding, horizon zero down, RDR2, they where great looking games. Maxed, they make generational leaps all the more harder. Detroit was very 'photo realistic'.
Absolutely, look at the videos and screenshots posted by members here on CP2077, out of this world looking stuff. That video doesnt do any good to either games. But that was probably the purpose.
Dont forget that everyone will have their own opinions, like said someone could find GTA4 be better looking then GTAV. Theres nothing wrong with that.
In modern engine, there is tons of compute and out of 4k where RDNA2 GPU lose to Ampere GPU, they are very competitive. The day you will understand Tflops different than realworld performance. It seems a bit too technical for you.
If Tflops had anything to do with realworld performance Vega GPU would have kill Pascal GPU. And it was far from being the case.
Efficieny per TFlops is better on Turing than Ampere.
Basically best RDNA2 and Ampere offer perform a bit under two times better than PS5/XSX on rasterization and this is good for a 999 and 1499 dollars/euros GPU. I talk about the game optimized for PS5, XSX and using rasterization.
Like AC Valhalla, Dirt 5 and GodGall for example, the only optimized games using rasterization.
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pag..._graphics_performance_benchmark_review,6.html
This is the reality not some fantasy talking about paper spec.
And a PS5 perform like a 2060 with raytracing in Watchdog Legions, here this is between two and three times more perfomant for the best Ampere GPU.
Last edited:
A 6900Xt oc sits at three times the power of a PS5, like for like arch/tf. Todays games like valhalla (lol) are not really pushing things yet.
These gpus dont really seem bottlenecked either.
Im afraid the difference is more there. 6800XT class performs obviously better in RT then a ps5 would.
BillSpencer
Regular
399 is barely enough for windows 10 pro and a controller, let alone an entire system but that is a different discussion
Ontopic: Watchdogs can look really good at times, the reflections especially look more natural. Is there a trick to it or is it just higher res compared to 2077?
Ontopic: Watchdogs can look really good at times, the reflections especially look more natural. Is there a trick to it or is it just higher res compared to 2077?
These GPU companies use different TFlops numbers that cannot be directly compared. The Rtx 6900 GPU is nowhere three times more powerful than current consoles, but not twice as much. This is especially true for the Xbox Series X, which will be a bandwidth monster when taking advantage of Sampler Feedback Streaming. These consoles are packed with more performance-enhancing stuff and are much more advanced compared to previous-generation machines.About. On the GPU front (still the most important), the best AMD has to offer right now is a 6900XT, which, with an OC, is close or over 30TF in like-for-like flops (RDNA2 arch), with a close to 25TF without OC. That's three times the capability of the PS5, a extremely high clocking and very wide GPU, with infinity cache to boot.
Then you sit at about 6700/XT level of perf at around 10TF, more BW constrained (share with the system also), and a shared 16GB vram.
Thats not even looking at NVs offerings, which have atleast the same rasterization performance as the mentioned 6900XT/6800XT and below. But with the added tensor hardware for reconstruction tech DLSS, and ray tracing performance thats gobs faster compared to dGPUs, let alone a 10TF gpu in a console.
Ampere are compute monsters aswell, should come to good use with UE5 demo like scenarios.
On the CPU front, things look better then last time atleast. I would still call them mid range, its a previous generation Zen2 gpu which is heavily downclocked, and as the GPU, share the mem BW subsystem. A high clocked 12core zen3 is what i'd call high-end. No pc gamer in their right mind is going to build something with less then a 3700x class gpu.
On the IO front its not all that clear, they should be 'high-end', but then again,NVs Direct Storage PCIE4 Nvme on the GPU compute delivering 14gb/s and higher is already surpassing in raw capabilities. Seeing how 2077 performs the streaming on pc with a fast nvme, thats already working very very well.
Memory, well, as noted above, its 16GB in total, whereas RNDA2 gpus sport that just for the VRAM allocation. SSDs can mitigate that somewhat, but nothing replaces even fast DDR4 ram yet, let alone GDDR6 (x) memory. Latency still is a thing.
They are mid-range machines, at a price to match them. Its all about compromises if you need to sell hardware at a 500 dollar price point.
Optimizations have come a long way, too.
6800XT 14TF, where does that put the PS5 GPU in turn
True. I think ampere can stretch its legs more and more going forward, focus heavy on compute. The 3080 is a 30TF GPU, in different workloads.
WDL on pc defintely looks drop dead amazing with the ray tracing and maxed out settings. CP2077 towers still as the best looker, atleast, so DF thinks.
WLD probably will end up as a runner up.
Still, i think death stranding, horizon zero down, RDR2, they where great looking games. Maxed, they make generational leaps all the more harder. Detroit was very 'photo realistic'.
Absolutely, look at the videos and screenshots posted by members here on CP2077, out of this world looking stuff. That video doesnt do any good to either games. But that was probably the purpose.
Dont forget that everyone will have their own opinions, like said someone could find GTA4 be better looking then GTAV. Theres nothing wrong with that.
Especially the current old triangle-based Ray-tracing method makes little use of the performance of the new consoles. In this regard, more efficient BVH and voxel will be the key.
These machines in my opinion will be capable of high and ultra settings at a stable 60 fps in the coming years.
Again GPU performance doesn't scale lineraly with Tflops. We speak about realworld performance and here it is a bit under two times more powerful for the 6900XT. If the GPU was not bottleneck there will be no framerate and resolution would never goes down in AC Valhalla. They can improve the rendering using better new GPU features or new rendering technology due to having more power but it is the bottleneck currently.
Again it seems you don't even understand why the games framerate and resolution into a dynamic resolution solution are going down, this is not because of the CPU.
But this is because of the GPU.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 7537
Guest
You can get a pretty competent PC for that price.
10400F for 150€, 6/12 core and better cache system than Zen2.
Cheap Intel Mobo for 50€
500GB SSD Sata for 50-60€
Case + Power Supply for 50-60€
Graphics Card, like the 1660 Super, which is very close to a 1070ti, 1080, for 200-250€
Memory, 8GB for 50€
That's 500-600€. And you don't need to pay to play online.
Last edited by a moderator:
BillSpencer
Regular
so 750€ euro including windows and you have less than half the performance, no ray tracing, 5-10 times as slow SSD, hundreds of gigabytes less storage, no RAM, and you also need to buy a fan still?
"You can get a pretty competent PC for that price." looks like you misspelt "incompetent"
But seriously there is a topic for this I guess
Flappy Pannus
Veteran
With more storage, just with a 9400f - that was basically my system, and the PS5 (since we're comparing with PC, let's use the PS5's digital price which is $400) is far superior. Legacy titles that haven't received patches, sure - they'll still look and play better on that PC. But that system isn't going to approach the PS5 version of titles like Dirt5, Valhalla, or even Cyberpunk in its current console form, of course not accounting the exclusive titles.
Also a case plus a PSU for $50 is really low-balling it. You don't need a gold-rate PSU but that is not an area where you really want to cut your budget to the bone.
To be fair, no DIY PC builder is going to be paying retail MSRP for Windows 10 Pro, you pay $20 for an OEM key from any number of online sellers. MS doesn't care enough to crack down on that market.399 is barely enough for windows 10 pro and a controller, let alone an entire system but that is a different discussion
D
Deleted member 7537
Guest
so 750€ euro including windows and you have less than half the performance, no ray tracing, 5-10 times as slow SSD, hundreds of gigabytes less storage, no RAM, and you also need to buy a fan still?
"You can get a pretty competent PC for that price." looks like you misspelt "incompetent"
But seriously there is a topic for this I guess
Mmm.. I never said it was better than any console. I said you could get a pretty competent PC.
Consoles are always better value at the beggining of the gen. In a year you'll be able to get a budget RT card that surpasses new consoles at an affordable price. And again, PCs do much more than gaming + free online play.
Also take into account that COVID has increased the price of older GPUs and other components, next year a PC at the same price with a low end 6 core Zen4 + 3050ti or similar will be vastly superior thanks to RT performance + DLSS.
*That intel cpu comes with a fan.
Flappy Pannus
Veteran
In the context of a thread where someone mentions the price of a PS5 vs a PC, it's pretty clear that they're speaking of a comparable PC that can provide a roughly equivalent experience. Piping in with "Well here's a PC at about half the power (GPU-wise at least) at the same price!" (actually more expensive) doesn't really mean much.
Maybe (I think the drastically slowing rate of process improvements + limited facility capacity may throw a wrench into that argument). Then perhaps that comparison will make more sense, but it doesn't now.
This is understood in any comparison. PC's also have potentially more issues with gaming, 'choice' isn't always a net benefit.
Last edited:
In your attempt to downplay CP2077 you kind tripped over your own feet right there.
WDL on PS5 is 30 FPS with resolution going from 2160p to 1440p (aka cheating in my book).
PC at true 4K:
Thanks
This is just terrible nothing like a PS5.
For the love of god can we not go through this argument again. I'm pretty sure we have a dedicated thread to it, but the general gist of the argument for at least the last decade (yes I'm that old) is:
- At launch time consoles are way cheaper than an equivalently spec'd PC
- Further down the line PC's become much cheaper (but never really cheaper than a console)
- But you can get more than double the performance for less than double the cost within a few years
- Mid gen consoles
- You have to pay an online subscription to game on consoles
- What if you don't want to game online
- You can do more with a PC
- I have a phone for that / I don't need a PC / My PC's 15 years old and does everything I need
- Games are cheaper on the PC / free game giveaways
- The second hand market / PSNow etc..
- Flexibility / choice / mods are the main advantage of PC gaming
- Consoles are a slicker, more user friendly experience
- Cyberpunk
In the case of the RX 6900XT then yes, we're "only" talking about double the overall real world performance from what we know so far. But you have to remember that Ampere dedicates die space to both RT and ML performance so both of those elements should be factored into it's total potential performance.
If a game doesn't use RT or ML, or only utilises them lightly, then Ampere (or Turing for that matter) isn't being used to it's full potential. Just look at CB2077 or WD:L performance at max RT and high resolutions with DLSS vs RDNA2. We're talking a performance advantage of between 3x (without DLSS) and 8x (with DLSS) over the next gen consoles in that scenario.
Obviously that doesn't apply to all situations so you could argue it doesn't matter, it's just unwisely used die space, an inefficient architecture. But the way I like to look at it is, what would the result be if for example these consoles used a 3070 instead of what they're using right now? What if every console title used DLSS (they obviously would since DRS which is used in every title is a much bigger compromise) along with a heavier dose of RT? How much extra performance would those consoles demonstrate compared to what they do currently?
This isn't really relevant. Both of the latest PC architectures are able to take advantage of Sampler Feedback as well. The streaming element simply makes MIP transitions smoother and/or cheaper.
This doesn't make a lot of sense. Assuming you mean the PC equivalents then PC settings requirements increase over time. What requires a 3080 today for Ultra settings will probably require a 4080 in a couple of years. Consoles have always had to scale down the settings ladder over time compared to PC's for that very reason. A few years won't help the situation, it'll hinder it.
BillSpencer
Regular
In your attempt to downplay CP2077 you kind tripped over your own feet right there.
WDL on PS5 is 30 FPS with resolution going from 2160p to 1440p (aka cheating in my book).
PC at true 4K:
Thanks
By your earlier logic Watch Dogs is the best PC game ever because it runs at an even lower frame rate than 2077 right?
on a side-note: 2080ti must have been the worst investment ever; with less than 2 years on the market it is unable to run modern games even at 4k 30fps maxed it seems
