100GB Hard Drive on the way for the 360?

[LightHeaven]

For those wondering why a 100 Gb HDD is needed, Ms also showed the Video Markekplace on X06 Koreia, its apparatenly the 4rth line in the image:

They are probably planning on selling lots of HD contents (and maybe games, with you noticed, Ms and Direct2Drive are partners on Windows Market Place selling full games)

 

[Monty]

100GB is nice, but unless you have 1000s of ripped songs on there its not really necessary; most of the demos are worth deleting after the 1st try. And the HD content wouldnt be worth getting as once you downloaded it, it is stuck on the xbox, then after 5 or more HD films you need another 100GB harddrive or you got to start deleting stuff you bought. It'll only be worth getting that HD content if its sold at really low price like <£5, but thats just not going to happen. So its all a waste of money.

That vision camera is pretty good though, got one myself and you get a headset, one month gold membeship and a 800 credit game for £25, so your pretty much getting the camera for free.

 

[blakjedi]

100GB is nice, but unless you have 1000s of ripped songs on there its not really necessary; most of the demos are worth deleting after the 1st try. And the HD content wouldnt be worth getting as once you downloaded it, it is stuck on the xbox, then after 5 or more HD films you need another 100GB harddrive or you got to start deleting stuff you bought. It'll only be worth getting that HD content if its sold at really low price like <£5, but thats just not going to happen. So its all a waste of money.

That vision camera is pretty good though, got one myself and you get a headset, one month gold membeship and a 800 credit game for £25, so your pretty much getting the camera for free.

Hunh? anything you download can be deleted... what was that about HD films taking up the whole HDD?

 

[Rolf N]

Umm.. that was your claim, not mine.

Of course it was. And you were diffusely opposed, that much I noticed, but then it would have been preferable if you told the forum what was so wrong with what I've said, if you can.

The Core exists for the sole purpose of existing? That's a wonderfully logical position to have. It doesn't exist to gain marketshare or a price point advantage presently or in the future. It's all a marketing gimmic that exists just so they can claim it exists.

Brilliant.

You're again completely failing in picking up the points of the argument and addressing them. I have posted about why I think Microsoft wants to sell Premiums, not Cores right now. I have posted about why I think the "future price point advantage" doesn't look so hot either, so maybe you can just reply to that instead of posting something knee-jerk snarkastic.

 

[Hardknock]

I wonder what kind of HD content they plan on selling?

I would rather they give us TV episodes in HD but make us watch commercials instead of having to pay for em.

Or a rental system where you can rent a HD movie for a week for like 400 MS points or something.

 

[Rolf N]

I don't think that's what he is saying at all. He's saying that most consumers won't buy any console until it drops below a certain price range, and if the Core is below that price range they will buy it, even if there are options that provide more overall value out there.

And I believe there is a degree of precendent to back that up. How many people have you heard complain about bundles, despite the fact that bundles usually offer a better overall value?

My point is that people will know that whatever accessories they're carrying to the store counter will cost money. If what is alluded about these magic price points is true, why do we have bundles at all? In fact why is a controller included in the box at all? I.e. if magic price points are so powerful, then why isn't there a 360 "Nekkid" for 179$ plus a power brick for 39$ plus a controller for 99$? Maybe because it it doesn't work. Maybe even sheep notice when they get shafted.

People complain about bundles when they include things they have no use for, like games they wouldn't buy, or many controllers when they just want to play alone.
But you need at least one controller and a means to save your game progress. That's the bare minimum for using a games console. Everybody likes this kind of bundle.
You might want to look at the Gamecube sellouts on Ebay. Reasonable bundles, that is including a memory card and a nice RGB cable, do much better than bare naked consoles with nothing but the power brick and the crappy default A/V cable.

And BTW, the average consumer is an F'ing moron. Take a drive through rush hour traffic sometime and tell me if you get home thinking "man, did you see all of those extremely intelligent people on the road?"

Yeah alright then. The average consumer knows "higher is better" and will always buy the most expensive item when pressed for making a choice.

 

[GB123]

Anybody who is questioning the viability of the core system should go take a look at the Blue Dragon Core bundle pre-order sales.

It obviously has it's uses.


Edit:- Or to put it this way MS have supposedly sold almost 100'000 Blue Dragon bundles (in one day) which is as many consoles as the PS3 will have for the whole of the month of November for Japan.

 

[Rolf N]

Anybody who is questioning the viability of the core system should go take a look at the Blue Dragon Core bundle pre-order sales.

Me? Why?
It's 10000 Yen less than the Premium and includes not only the game, but a proper A/V cable and collectibles (faceplate, figures). Which makes it better value than the Premium, even if you buy the harddrive addon and a wireless controller, if you want that particular game. Yes, a healthy number of Japanese gamers want to play Blue Dragon, and it's selling really well.

If you want to show me how consumers just love the 360 Core, wake me up if there's a sudden rush on it without any extra stuff bundled in for free.

 

[Tap In]

If you want to show me how consumers just love the 360 Core, wake me up if there's a sudden rush on it without any extra stuff bundled in for free.

*broken record*

let's have this conversation again in 2008 when it's the only Next Gen console (not beginning with an "N") within $125 of the $199 price point.

 

[Hardknock]

Edit:- Or to put it this way MS have supposedly sold almost 100'000 Blue Dragon bundles (in one day) which is as many consoles as the PS3 will have for the whole of the month of November for Japan.

Really? Is there a link to this available?

 

[Rolf N]

Really? Is there a link to this available?

We have a thread about it.

 

[Rolf N]

*broken record*

let's have this conversation again in 2008 when it's the only Next Gen console (not beginning with an "N") within $125 of the $199 price point.

*broken record*

How much do you think it [the Premium] will cost when the Core hits 179$? Still 100$ more?

 

[Rangers]

Yeah alright then. The average consumer knows "higher is better" and will always buy the most expensive item when pressed for making a choice.

That's completely false, this was proved in the 16-bit generation, of which I am old enough to well remember, it used to be, the "default", in fact only, console configuration, always included 1 game (expensive cartridge game at that) and two controllers along with the system. That was the NES, which also included a light gun, and early incarnations of the SNES and Genesis. Then, I think the Genesis jumped first with SNES quick to follow by necessity, they discovered the amazing concept that it's best to get the base hardware into consumers hands at the lowest possible price, and "core" pack of no game, and only one controller, but priced significantly lower, were introduced. These no frills cheap packs basically immediatly took over the market, and before long the "deluxe" packs were almost non-existant. Given a choice consumers chose the cheaper no-frills pack.

The HDD btw will be a cost burden later on. Whatever the break even price of the HDD is, it's got to be something near $50, lets say. That $50 gets bigger and bigger as a percent the lower the console price goes. It's huge when you're trying to price at 129 or 99, absolutely huge. I have read that late in life the most expensive components in the Xbox1 according to MS were the HDD and RAM. The chips and all that drop, and they drop fast. It's been well discussed but HDD have a certain manufactoring cost floor beyond which they will not drop. It's worth noting the Xbox1 both lost a ton of money and never dropped below $149 (though not all that was due to HDD, some of it was).

As for 20GB HDD, it's definitly too small. That's stone age stuff. The reason it was chosen though, is because it's the absolute cheapest drive to manufactor, as it has only one mechanical platter. I have felt a bit constricted by that 20 GB size from day one. Most demos run around 1GB each. I think I have about 12 on there right now (the average might be 700MB or something, hence I have some space) and oh yeah, the 360 HDD really has like 14 GB free from the factory which is really pathetic.

Sure, I can delete the demos, many of which I dont really play, in fact I have deleted many demos, but I'd rather have a huge drive and just be able to toss whatever I want on there, and keep it, without worrying about it. Heck I'm even thinking about a 250GB would be nice. I think this is the one area where MS can outspec Sony. The alledged all in one X360 with built in HDD was said to have a 250GB. That's the one area where MS could point to a bigger number than Sony. If you compare the hypothetical HDDVD 360 pak based on current prices to the $600 PS3, HDDVD is smaller, it cant be used for 360 games, the price would be similar, but hey, microsoft would actually have a bigger number on the HDD.

People are tossing around a lot of accesory pricing schemes that make a lot of sense, that's why I dont think MS will do them, hah. They are really out there on those prices. But hopefully they will do something aggressive for a change. The 256 MB card pricing currently for example makes almost no sense.

Oh, and if you run he numbers the Core makes microsoft almost as much as the premium. For starters, most core pack buyers will have to spring for the mem card which is $40 of pure profit.

Premium: base+(HDD+Live mic+component cables+3 months gold live+wireless controller)
Core: base+wired controller+S-Video cable

The extra stuff in the premium probably costs microsoft 40, $50? the cables and controllers wont be much different in manufactore cost, etc. So $100-40=$60 additional profit prem over core. Every mem card probably gets 35 of that back, plus if even ten, 20% of core buyers eventually get the add on HDD anytime in the 5 years they use the 360..you're quickly at parity. Not too mention wireless controllers, etc.

microsoft can afford to be completely agnostic core vs premium for the most part, imo, from a profit standpoint. And they seem to be just that, always stating it's based on retailer demand which one they manufactore more of.
________
Hotstipper69

 

[Powderkeg]

My point is that people will know that whatever accessories they're carrying to the store counter will cost money. If what is alluded about these magic price points is true, why do we have bundles at all?

To sell consoles when they haven't reached that sellable price point.

In fact why is a controller included in the box at all? I.e. if magic price points are so powerful, then why isn't there a 360 "Nekkid" for 179$ plus a power brick for 39$ plus a controller for 99$? Maybe because it it doesn't work. Maybe even sheep notice when they get shafted.

Those items are there to meet certain expetations. Sort of like you expect to get tires and a seat when you buy a car.

People complain about bundles when they include things they have no use for, like games they wouldn't buy, or many controllers when they just want to play alone.

Interesting assertion. So I take it you expect people to complain about Bluray because most people have no use for it since most people don't own HDTV's? And along the same lines you should expect the PS3 to also be heavily complained about since the only reason it costs so much more is because it includes that Bluray which they don't need, right?

You might want to look at the Gamecube sellouts on Ebay. Reasonable bundles, that is including a memory card and a nice RGB cable, do much better than bare naked consoles with nothing but the power brick and the crappy default A/V cable.

You might want to check NPD sales figures, and compare that with the "bundles" you find on Ebay to see which sells better.

Yeah alright then. The average consumer knows "higher is better" and will always buy the most expensive item when pressed for making a choice.

Which explains why Kia sells more cars than Mercedes, right?

 

[Powderkeg]

Nah I'm saying they could get rid of the memory cards completely, or atleast lower the price of them by a large amount. But I suppose that would make the memory card ports on the 360 useless. Again, I'm not the best @ math. The accessory pricing system is a little weird to begin with.

That I can certianly agree with. Weird and overpriced.

 

[GB123]

Me? Why?
It's 10000 Yen less than the Premium and includes not only the game, but a proper A/V cable and collectibles (faceplate, figures). Which makes it better value than the Premium, even if you buy the harddrive addon and a wireless controller, if you want that particular game. Yes, a healthy number of Japanese gamers want to play Blue Dragon, and it's selling really well.

If you want to show me how consumers just love the 360 Core, wake me up if there's a sudden rush on it without any extra stuff bundled in for free.

You kind of missed my point, Japanese gamers aren't as willing to spend huge chunks of cash on game consoles as western gamers, Sure it's better value to have all that stuff thrown in free but when you think about it, the core system with Blue Dragon will cost 30'000 yen in Japan.

So you have the Wii at 25'000 ($215) yen bundled with Wii: sports or you have the Xbox 360 at 30'000($250) yen with Blue Dragon and HD graphics.

 

[Rolf N]

That's completely false, <...>

I know. That was just me going with the times, i.e. making stuff up and then claiming (without proof) knowledge that a significant portion of the market ticks that way.

<...> this was proved in the 16-bit generation, of which I am old enough to well remember <...>
These no frills cheap packs basically immediatly took over the market, and before long the "deluxe" packs were almost non-existant. Given a choice consumers chose the cheaper no-frills pack.

That's what I said before, isn't it? I said everyone needs a controller and a way to save your game progress here. I said noone wants a console without a controller, power supply, at least basic cabling, memcard to deflect the claim that, and I summarize, a magic pricepoint is enough to convince consumers, with no regard to accessory prices (you know, people=morons and all the related fun of making stuff up).

That's not much of a stretch, or is it? I don't know of any such "bare bones" console offerings -- granted, it's a tad extreme without a power supply, but what about no A/V cable and no controller? -- and will conclude that noone will be able to prove it either way, but manufacturers somehow decided that they won't go there.

The HDD btw will be a cost burden later on. Whatever the break even price of the HDD is, it's got to be something near $50, lets say.

Newegg disagrees with you by a good margin.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822152047
They can sell the drive for 30$ and not kill themselves in the process, so that should tell you something about the price Microsoft might be able to pull off without taking a loss. And I'll go out on a limb and add that Microsoft probably orders the drives directly from the manufacturer and in much larger quantities than Newegg to get a much sweeter deal.

I concur that the cost of the HDDs won't drop over the lifetime of the console. But your absolute numbers are off.

That $50 gets bigger and bigger as a percent the lower the console price goes. It's huge when you're trying to price at 129 or 99, absolutely huge. I have read that late in life the most expensive components in the Xbox1 according to MS were the HDD and RAM. The chips and all that drop, and they drop fast. It's been well discussed but HDD have a certain manufactoring cost floor beyond which they will not drop. It's worth noting the Xbox1 both lost a ton of money and never dropped below $149 (though not all that was due to HDD, some of it was).

I won't argue any of that, but how does that make the two-SKU approach better?
The Premium will not be discontinued and will always compete with the Core. Thus the solution to the old problem becomes a new problem in itself, especially when you consider what the competition is doing this round (standard HDD for Sony, "memcard" built-in for Nintendo; everything has persistent storage out of the box except for the 360 Core). Any you know you want the HDD. Half of the 360's appeal is in the HDD and what it does for Live (BC with XBox 1 games may not matter three years from now, but demos will stay important through the whole life of the console).

But I guess we're back to discussing magic price points and "the people"'s ignorance of accessory prices! My record is breaking!

Point:
It will get harder for consumers to consider the Core a sensible purchase as time flows forward, not easier. What's currently a 65$ difference (with a memcard factored in but ignoring the other goodies), which you may find justified or not (most currently don't), will eventually become a 30$ difference, then a 20$ difference.
[cheap shot]And I'll still be wondering why the Core was ever incepted.[/cheap shot]

<...>
Oh, and if you run he numbers the Core makes microsoft almost as much as the premium. For starters, most core pack buyers will have to spring for the mem card which is $40 of pure profit.

Premium: base+(HDD+Live mic+component cables+3 months gold live+wireless controller)
Core: base+wired controller+S-Video cable

The extra stuff in the premium probably costs microsoft 40, $50? the cables and controllers wont be much different in manufactore cost, etc. So $100-40=$60 additional profit prem over core. Every mem card probably gets 35 of that back, plus if even ten, 20% of core buyers eventually get the add on HDD anytime in the 5 years they use the 360..you're quickly at parity. Not too mention wireless controllers, etc.

I think you can buy the (64MB) memcard for 35$ so it can't quite be making 40$ of profit
But fair enough.

microsoft can afford to be completely agnostic core vs premium for the most part, imo, from a profit standpoint. And they seem to be just that, always stating it's based on retailer demand which one they manufactore more of.

That's of course ignoring that the official pricing of the two SKUs has a large impact on the demand

I think Microsoft's best bet is to start pricing the memcards more reasonably (the standard flash card formats used by the competition will make the current 360 memcard prices look stupid anyway). Like keep them at 15$ and make them larger as chip prices permit.

The larger HDD is a good move, if the price is correct. The current HDD addon is just cynical, but a large drive for a reasonable price would constitute an upgrade that you could buy to improve even the Premium edition. That's a good thing and will find its place.

 

[Skrying]

Can you plug in a mass storage device through USB on the 360? I would believe there is no reason at all why that shouldnt be possible unless MS is of course locking people out of it. I'd personally just pick up a enclosure and 300GB HD for $100 if that were possible.

 

[Arctic Permafrost]

Thanks for sharing, Powerdekg. I use X360's HD mainly to storage music (I have 900+ songs from 150 artists, just imagine!), so 20 GB is more than enough for me, let alone 100 GB, but that's good news indeed.

I am bit surprised because I remember some rumours time ago, people thought they were fake, and they finally might come true at a future date.

Basically I agree with Monty, for most users, it's hard to fill 20 GB, but for people who regularly accumulate demos, video... 100 GB is ok.

______________
"Unlucky in games, lucky in love"
Gamertag: Cyaneyes

 

[Tap In]

adding to the storage space debate...

this has been out for a while... $49.99 the 360 is limited only by the size of a hard drive(s) on your connected PC.

XSATA

With XSATA, the latest devious device from Datel, you can free up hard drive space by transferring content between your console and your PC. You need never run out of hard drive space on your XB360 again! Using your Xbox 360 file manager software such as the free PC app Xplorer 360, you can transfer materials from your console’s hard drive to your PC, using your computer’s hard disc space to store demos, game saves and other such materials you’re not currently using. When you need them again, just transfer back to the XB360’s drive. Once the data is on your PC, you can email anything that’s not locked to your machine or L!VE account to your friends for them to use on their own consoles too.