The LittleBigPlanet pre-release Saga

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Example: I have a level with a dragon, now to get past the dragon I want you to build a tank and slay the dragon. I provide you with all the necessary material lying around to build it and maybe even have stick person hieroglyph in a tank shooting a dragon as a clue. So you put the parts together, fire the tank at the dragon, slay it and move on your way.
But you can't do that AFAIK. You can't pick up two wheels and a chassis spread around a level and attach the wheels to the chassis via pivots to make a vehicle. That would be awesome if you could! The pivot function isn't available in the in-game Popit though, it seems.

So what's going to stop you from taking that flying dragon and using it to bypass everything else in the level and go straight to the end (and of course boast how you beat the level in 10 seconds when what you really did was create your own glitch), or maybe you just change the dragon to be super weak instead so that a piece of fluff tossed at it will kill it (that would be creating your own cheat), or maybe you just open up the editor and delete that dragon in your way (at which point I'd wonder why you even bother playing). The point is, in your desire to have control you're no longer a player but a god.
Hang on, I never said I wanted unlimited in-game powers! I said, I liked the idea with the constraints of a currency to buy components. What you suggest in providing component sin game for the player to assemble is also perfectly acceptable to me, maybe even better than the open currency model. That's just not an option though as far as I can tell. All construction functions seem to be removed. In the latest Walmart promo video, the Popit menu is called up and the only thing you have there are stickers. Perhaps, fingers crossed, it's a reduced menu which expands as you play the game with more features. If the player can do nothing other than stick pictures on things, and they can't assemble any contraptions of their own design, the game will be a little less than it could have been and then was first suggested (but of course we have had lots of improvements since then too, such as control code. I am clearly being greedy!)

At this point though, everything is pointing to no in-game construction, short of pulling and pushing blocks. No building siege engine whether from parts you buy or parts you find.
 
That 3-layer Z-movement still sound somewhat clumsy. So the Z-movement hopefully is smooth.
I can' see any other way to do it. We already know three layer traversal is automatic between layers as you jump, say. But let's say there are two paths, one on the furthest back layer, one on the front-most layer, and a wall in between, such that you can sneak behind the wall. How would a fully automatic system know which route you wanted to take? That would have to be a player-controlled movement, and so there'll need to be a forwards/backwards control. As long as its mapped intuitively to the stick, that's the best we can hope for I think.
 
Is the 3-layer Z movement a game design decision (to simplify level creation) or a technical decision ? And it takes only a nudge of the right stick to move between layers right ?

BTW, can the game do RobotWar ? Can players "program" their tanks and load them in a level ? Or for that matter, can I BYOB (Bring your own blah) in a LBP level ? That's considered "in-game" editing right ?
 
Is the 3-layer Z movement a game design decision (to simplify level creation) or a technical decision ?
Technical in what way? It's a means to provide depth to the levels and add to gameplay.
And it takes only a nudge of the right stick to move between layers right ?
Dunno, I haven't played it ;) The blog guy says you tap the stick rather than free run into it, so yes, it sounds like it's just a quick nudge. I guess he means you have to switch in, rather than wander in and out. But it also automatically switches layers if there's an open layer to jump into, which the blogger didn't actually like.
BTW, can the game do RobotWar ? Can players "program" their tanks and load them in a level ?
Programming isn't that sophisticated. If there is any targeting, it'll be at best a direct move-towards-target, but we haven't seen any of that yet.
Or for that matter, can I BYOB (Bring your own blah) in a LBP level ? That's considered "in-game" editing right ?
As in the level requires the player to import a ready-made object? I don't think so. That would require a player joining to be presented a menu pof objects at their disposal, and I've seen nothing to suggest such a feature.

BTW : that blog has a load of YouTube vids posted. Nothing astounding. I didn't look at the last boss vid.
 
Technical in what way? It's a means to provide depth to the levels and add to gameplay.

As in simplifying implementation (a lot) ?

Dunno, I haven't played it ;) The blog guy says you tap the stick rather than free run into it, so yes, it sounds like it's just a quick nudge. I guess he means you have to switch in, rather than wander in and out. But it also automatically switches layers if there's an open layer to jump into, which the blogger didn't actually like.

I would have preferred a free-running version instead of a 3 layer version too. Still can't quite get over the concept. :)

Programming isn't that sophisticated. If there is any targeting, it'll be at best a direct move-towards-target, but we haven't seen any of that yet.
As in the level requires the player to import a ready-made object? I don't think so. That would require a player joining to be presented a menu pof objects at their disposal, and I've seen nothing to suggest such a feature.

Aiight.... version 2 then.

BTW : that blog has a load of YouTube vids posted. Nothing astounding. I didn't look at the last boss vid.

Yeah, I stayed away from that too.
 
But you can't do that AFAIK. You can't pick up two wheels and a chassis spread around a level and attach the wheels to the chassis via pivots to make a vehicle. That would be awesome if you could! The pivot function isn't available in the in-game Popit though, it seems.

Hang on, I never said I wanted unlimited in-game powers! I said, I liked the idea with the constraints of a currency to buy components. What you suggest in providing component sin game for the player to assemble is also perfectly acceptable to me, maybe even better than the open currency model. That's just not an option though as far as I can tell. All construction functions seem to be removed. In the latest Walmart promo video, the Popit menu is called up and the only thing you have there are stickers. Perhaps, fingers crossed, it's a reduced menu which expands as you play the game with more features. If the player can do nothing other than stick pictures on things, and they can't assemble any contraptions of their own design, the game will be a little less than it could have been and then was first suggested (but of course we have had lots of improvements since then too, such as control code. I am clearly being greedy!)

At this point though, everything is pointing to no in-game construction, short of pulling and pushing blocks. No building siege engine whether from parts you buy or parts you find.


Ok, I think I understand you better now, but I still have not seen anything that says you can't do what I described and I don't believe you need the editor to accomplish this. You have the magnetic switching, so when you've arraigned all the pieces together then all the switches are aligned (or in other words, all on) so the then tank will transform into a functioning piece which can be used defeat the dragon. Viola!

I do get where you're coming from in that it would be neat if you could give the player more creative functionality during a level run but I still think it would suffer from not only the loss of control by the level creator that I mentioned earlier but also from a lack of coherent objectives and clear accomplishments. Using your siege engine example, how is it the player would know to build a siege engine? And more importantly, how does the level recognize that what you've built is a siege engine and that it will actually accomplish whatever goal you had in mind for it?

Anyhow, good stuff and yes I'm greedy too :LOL:. This thinking about user created content during a level has me given me the idea for a new level which, for the moment, I'll dub "Artsy fartsy" where your sackboy is given multiple paths and options during the level run and based on the choices made an art collage or painting is created at the end. The question I have is do I let them know that is the goal to start or do I let them run thru it blindly the first time and let it be a surprise at the end (and give them a big reason to replay it to see how things would turn out differently)?
 
I have been wondering for a long time now whether LBP will have less mechanical, smarter, smaller enemies (sackboys with guns?) with more or less preset AI behaviour.

It's very nice that you can model old school big bosses, but I'm having trouble imagining how Killzone, R2, Uncharted themed levels will go beyond the art in terms of similarity.
 
Ok, I think I understand you better now, but I still have not seen anything that says you can't do what I described and I don't believe you need the editor to accomplish this. You have the magnetic switching, so when you've arraigned all the pieces together then all the switches are aligned (or in other words, all on) so the then tank will transform into a functioning piece which can be used defeat the dragon. Viola!
You're right, that'll probably work. There's a movie with a box that a genie I think lifts and lowers, and each time there's a different object. So yes, sound like you could have components replaced with a prebuilt system.

That doesn't allow for the player freeedom to assemble those pieces how they wish though.

I still think it would suffer from not only the loss of control by the level creator that I mentioned earlier
I think level design would reign that in. Just stick a wall after the boss area where only a sackboy can squeeze through and all contraptions have to be left behind.

...but also from a lack of coherent objectives and clear accomplishments. Using your siege engine example, how is it the player would know to build a siege engine? And more importantly, how does the level recognize that what you've built is a siege engine and that it will actually accomplish whatever goal you had in mind for it?
By siege engine, I just mean any contropation that'll knock down a wall of heavy bricks. The player would decided where to build a rocket car and knock it down, a catapult, a battering ram, a ladder to climb over I guess...whatever they care to construct to get around the problem. Same with the chasm problem. If the player decides to build a catapult and throw themselves over, or suspension bridge, or a hang-glider, or a zip line, at just a honking big plank, it gives them freedom to find their own way to solve a problem in a gameplay mode other games can't offer. The closest similarity at the moment is Banjo where the player constructs vehicles from components.

Anyhow, good stuff and yes I'm greedy too :LOL:. This thinking about user created content during a level has me given me the idea for a new level which, for the moment, I'll dub "Artsy fartsy" where your sackboy is given multiple paths and options during the level run and based on the choices made an art collage or painting is created at the end. The question I have is do I let them know that is the goal to start or do I let them run thru it blindly the first time and let it be a surprise at the end (and give them a big reason to replay it to see how things would turn out differently)?
Yeagh, setting goals and giving incentives is a trick. I suggest you try and lead them with a red herring, so they think the goal is to colelct something-or-others, but it's revealed at the end what the real purpose was. How are you thinking to produce the art? Produce it offline and scan in, or create using in-game thingies?
 
I have been wondering for a long time now whether LBP will have less mechanical, smarter, smaller enemies (sackboys with guns?) with more or less preset AI behaviour.
There are no NPC sackboys. Everything basically is going to be made out of 'blocks' or in-game models - a sombrero with a gun! You can construct guns but I don't think you can have them targeting the players, only shooting via a mechanical path.

It's a lovely retro way of thinking in this modern era. It's all about using mechanical interactions, like Ye Olde automatons.

It's very nice that you can model old school big bosses, but I'm having trouble imagining how Killzone, R2, Uncharted themed levels will go beyond the art in terms of similarity.
I think, fundamentally, you can't change the core game. You can't turn Mario into Bionic Commando. There's a fair bit of jiggery-pokery you can do to vary the game, but at this point in time it is LittleBigPlanet the game in experience. We can't really ask for more from the first title of a new small company after 18 months work on a new platform!
 
There are no NPC sackboys. Everything basically is going to be made out of 'blocks' or in-game models - a sombrero with a gun!
Are those confirmed somewhere?
It's a lovely retro way of thinking in this modern era. It's all about using mechanical interactions, like Ye Olde automatons.

I think, fundamentally, you can't change the core game. You can't turn Mario into Bionic Commando. There's a fair bit of jiggery-pokery you can do to vary the game, but at this point in time it is LittleBigPlanet the game in experience. We can't really ask for more from the first title of a new small company after 18 months work on a new platform!

Still, it's a little sad that, when people are talking about LBP remakes of games they only really talk about Mario and clones.
I cannot help feel NPC omission is a big loss. The AI and modeling doesn't have to be deep and complex from day one.
 
I'm pretty sure not. Copyright covers the artistic content, and unless you can convince a jury that the position of some blocks without regard to their design is an artistic creation, I can't see how an arrangement of a level can be copyrighted. Looking at Braid we see a Donkey Kong homage, for example.

I do seem to remember Giana Sister being "banned" due to "ripping" off Super Mario.

And the Wiki seems to agree with me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Giana_Sisters

Due to its strong similarity with Super Mario Bros., Rainbow Arts was forced to withdraw the game from sale almost as soon as it was released and cancel release of the otherwise completed ZX Spectrum version, under pressure from Nintendo's legal arm. The cover of the C64 version published in the UK by GO!, a sub-label of US Gold went so far as to taunt Nintendo's game with the tagline "The brothers are history."


So it could possible be sued at least.... then again I do not known the exact thing that Nintendo didn't like, but something in the back of my mine is saying that the levels was copies of the Super Mario levels......
 
From the blog linked to above :

3. Can you place a sackboy NPC?
No.
You can add NPCs. See the movies with cardboard-cutout characters giving missions. We've also heard the devs have created an RPG level. I'm sure fetchaquest rich RPGs will be doable.
Still, it's a little sad that, when people are talking about LBP remakes of games they only really talk about Mario and clones.
Not just Mario. Balderdash has been suggested, as has Jetpac in some form or other. Different game styles are doable, but they're all going to feel LittleBigPlanet-ish. Killzone 2 or Uncharted aren't going to be ablew to create a Killzone shooter level or Uncharted shooter level, though an Uncharted exploration level is definitely on the cards. And as for content, I expect proper 3rd party developers will be allowed to include custom meshes and contribute to the LBP library. It would be great to get some squishy, fabric, ragdoll characters from games in there!
 
I do seem to remember Giana Sister being "banned" due to "ripping" off Super Mario.

And the Wiki seems to agree with me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Giana_Sisters
The wiki article explains the similarities - it went well beyond just lifting the level layouts.

So it could possible be sued at least.... then again I do not known the exact thing that Nintendo didn't like, but something in the back of my mine is saying that the levels was copies of the Super Mario levels......
It was the whole thing. Again, I don't see how any company could successfully sue over the position of blocks, when everything else is different. LBP has different artwork, different game mechanic, and plenty of other differences, that you could'nt say it was a wholesale ripoff. It'd be a derivative work at best, and using someone's idea that way isn't illegal.
 
Sony's plastered the entire side of a multi-story building with LBP, ahead of the Games Convention in Leipzig.

http://www.gc-blog.de/2008/08/14/leipzig-is-ready-for-gc/

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I hope we see more of this kind of marketing as we near launch.
 
I've found the location of Media Molecule. It's right in the midsts of town! Not at all where you expect a games developer to hide out. They must pop out during lunch to visit local cafe's and the like. I should plan a stalking campaign to find and interrogate a MM bigwig.
 
Sony's plastered the entire side of a multi-story building with LBP, ahead of the Games Convention in Leipzig.

They are welcomed to plaster my kid's room too.... if they ever come my way.

Now we wait for the guy or gal who tattoo his/her body with SackBoy.
 
I've found the location of Media Molecule. It's right in the midsts of town! Not at all where you expect a games developer to hide out. They must pop out during lunch to visit local cafe's and the like. I should plan a stalking campaign to find and interrogate a MM bigwig.

Git 'em !

Here's a new interview and new information about weather effects and switches: http://www.lbpcentral.com/exclusive-interview-with-littlebigplanet-co-creator-mark-healey/#more-69

We have a set of ‘switches’ that can be wired up to various items;

‘Button’ – This is like the button you might find on a fruit machine – it requires pressure on it to operate it.

‘Two way switch’ – A two position switch – much like a light switch.

‘Three way switch’ A bit like the two way switch , except it has a central position, and will spring back to centre when not being operated.

‘Sensor switch’ This will become active when a Sackperson is close to it (you can alter the range) – this is much like a traditional ‘trigger’ as used in many game.

‘Sticker Switch’ Will become active when a particular sticker is applied on the object it is attached to.

‘Grab Switch’ Detects that a sackperson is grabbing the object the switch is stuck too.

‘Magnetic Key & Magnetic Switch’ – a bit like the sensor switch, except instead of detecting Sack persons, it detects color matched keys – very very handy…

These are all base level items, and can be combined and used in very cunning ways……to make very different types of games from what you might expect LBP to currently be….

We know wooden logs can be set on fire. Will you have other element interactions, such as ice melting or fire extinguishing?

You can set fire to pretty much anything, you can also make things ‘electrified’, or turn them to gas, which is very cool.

Is water still planned for the game? If so, were you planning to release it via DLC or in the final build?

By water, I assume you mean ‘real water’ that acts like real water does! – This isn’t in the initial release, but we have some cool ideas for how to integrate it into a possible future DLC – of course, it will have a slight LBP twist to it…..

How dark can we make a level? Can we control the degree of darkness throughout the level(such as making the sun rise when the player reaches a certain point)?

You can make it pitch black if you like. You could fake the sun rising with some cunning switches and light objects….

Are there any weather effects, such as rain or fog?

There is fog that you can tweak, and you could pretty easily fake a thunderstorm with the right sound effect objects and some ‘emitted’ rain drops or something.
 
The possibilities are endless. I simply cannot wait for this game to come out. I am considering freezing myself until it does.

I also read in a recent interview that Sony plans to make sackboy their mascot. All I have to say, is thank you for doing so. I am glad to see them start their advertising for this game. Can't wait to see more of what they do.

I also liked this even though it may be a repost for others it was somewhat new information for me:

Is it possible to reward a player a download key to another level upon completion, to create an overarching story while requiring they play them in the intended order?

Absolutely Yes! - for every level you publish, you get a key – you can then lock levels, and give that key to others - either as a reward in another of your levels – or by directly sending it to a friend. This is the mechanism we have used to create the story progression that comes with the initial bluray.

Not only can you reward players with special items or objects you created in your game, you can also reward them with a special/bonus level. Pretty sweet.
 
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