Fact: Nintendo to release HD console + controllers with built-in screen late 2012

[Kaotik]

For GPU, think of something incredibly rough, Xenos=48X5 stream processors, =240...

Any AMD 4XX part with say, 320 sp's?

Huh? Xenos isn't VLIW5, it can't be compared like that to VLIW5 R6xx and newer

 

[MarkoIt]

It is not out of line, but times have changed. No other generation console manufacturers were more reluctant to release their next gen product. Costs are over the roof, and there is more life into these consoles than any of us could have guessed in 2005.

The thing is, how much powerful and different will the new Nintendo console be next to the PS3 and 360 now that they ve got motion controls, a large gaming library and evolved online services? If its just a tad better in performance and the new idea isnt anything special to write about, people are simply going to wait for the next PS and XBOX.

If its just as innovative as Wii was back in 2006 hence it becomes a huge success and the cost of conversion to a PS4 or XBOX3 is large for the consumer, Sony and MS might have some trouble. Otherwise if the perceived value is large enough for a next Sony and MS console then its Nintendo who is going to have some trouble, as the competition can copy ideas and also add new due to technology evolution

Since the expected generation leap is ~10x the power of PS360, to be competitive with the next-generation, Project Cafè has to be at least 5x faster than the current generation.
With such a leap, the difference in terms of graphics will be visible since day one. And being 2 times slower of the next-gen, it's not that bad. They could target 720p instead of 1080p for example.

 

[function]

More like Nintendo would be way too early (Dreamcast, cough)

Going first (along with other things like great technology) almost made the DC a success. It failed for several reasons, none of which were coming out first.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Then again, maybe AMD has gotten the other R7xx cards to stop being such power hogs.

Go and look again; HD 4850 and below had fantastic power management. Additionally, at peak, the entire RV7xx series had class leading performance/W at the time.

I wonder if Nintendo using a R700 based GPU will finally mean the pre-DX11 generation tessellation unit will finally see some use? I don't believe it ever saw use in the Xenos....

Viva Pinata is one title that I know uses Tessellation on the XBOX.

 

[Urian]

What´s the possible Die Size of a HD 4850/4870 at 28nm? If I am not wrong it should be at 1/4 of the original.

 

[Megadrive1988]

A RV770 / Radeon HD 4870 provides 800 SP and 1.2 TeraFlops of shader performance. Think Nintendo will use that, or something slightly lower-end? I'd love a 100x leap over Wii and a 5x leap over 360/PS3 graphics with at least 1 GB GDDR5 RAM. I hope Nintendo targets 1080p 60fps with their internal games, but I guess 30fps would be fine for Zelda to get some extra shiney effects and whatnot.

 

[Eteric]

That's if we get a 10x leap next generation. I don't know if Sony or Microsoft will want to lose money on each unit sold again.

Not to mention no one is in a big hurry for the next gen, due to rising costs.

Hell, Sony and MS could intentionally settle around the same specs as the Cafe in order to keep costs down for everyone.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Selling a profitable product is only useful if people actually want to buy it.

 

[V3]

It is not out of line, but times have changed. No other generation console manufacturers were more reluctant to release their next gen product. Costs are over the roof, and there is more life into these consoles than any of us could have guessed in 2005.

The thing is, how much powerful and different will the new Nintendo console be next to the PS3 and 360 now that they ve got motion controls, a large gaming library and evolved online services? If its just a tad better in performance and the new idea isnt anything special to write about, people are simply going to wait for the next PS and XBOX.

If its just as innovative as Wii was back in 2006 hence it becomes a huge success and the cost of conversion to a PS4 or XBOX3 is large for the consumer, Sony and MS might have some trouble. Otherwise if the perceived value is large enough for a next Sony and MS console then its Nintendo who is going to have some trouble, as the competition can copy ideas and also add new due to technology evolution

Nintendo is trying, with new stuff, not sure if it will take off or not.

Interestingly, if Nintendo sticks to their 5/6 year cycle, they'll release another console in 2016. Just two years after the predicted 2014 launch of Xbox3 and PS4. It'll be an intersting scenario if Nintendo have the most powerful console in the next five years.

 

[V3]

A RV770 / Radeon HD 4870 provides 800 SP and 1.2 TeraFlops of shader performance. Think Nintendo will use that, or something slightly lower-end? I'd love a 100x leap over Wii and a 5x leap over 360/PS3 graphics with at least 1 GB GDDR5 RAM. I hope Nintendo targets 1080p 60fps with their internal games, but I guess 30fps would be fine for Zelda to get some extra shiney effects and whatnot.

To target 1080p they'll need more than 512 MB of memory that's currently being reported. 1 GB would be ideal but looking at what they have to bundle with the console and their price point 512 MB is more likely. So it'll probably be upscaled like PS3/360.

To me it seems Nintendo wanted PS3/360 ports from 3rd parties. Something that they sorely missing this gen and lost opportunity. It would be nice if multiplat games run at 60 fps on Ninty new console and with the same internal buffer res. I reckon full 1080p buffer is still too much hit on the memory as well as the performance of R700.

Do you think it's possible for Nintendo to include some eDRAM into the R700 ? R700 isn't a big chip by today GPU standard, so I wonder how well eDRAM would fit into the R700 archetecture.

 

[pjbliverpool]

R700 is way more than enough to achieve 1080p at 60fps in ANY multiplatform console game as long as it's ported efficiently.

 

[AlphaWolf]

R700 is way more than enough to achieve 1080p at 60fps in ANY multiplatform console game as long as it's ported efficiently.

and yet the whining will be epic when it doesn't happen because some developers will chose 30fps and more effects

 

[theLonely1]

To target 1080p they'll need more than 512 MB of memory that's currently being reported.

512MB isn't being reported. Is just a guess of the minimum amount of RAM the device may have based on the rumored attribute of easy porting from the 360.

 

[Squilliam]

Why does it need to be 1080P? I don't understand why people obsess with buzz words when in the end the most important factor is the delivered results with the technology used and you get no real bonus points for meeting marketing checkboxes in reality. I certainly don't believe that games will need to be 1080P unless it's being horizontally scaled because even in the next generation I doubt developers will be able to put in enough detail to justify that number of pixels.

It isn't the number of pixels which counts, what counts is what you do with every pixel.

 

[Megadrive1988]

If we think of Wii as a last-gen console, it got alot of memory

Dreamcast: 26 MB total
PS2: 38 or 40 MB total including embedded RAM
GameCube: 43 MB total including embedded RAM
Xbox: 64 MB total
Wii: 88 MB total

So I think Nintendo will shoot for more RAM than 360/PS3 and go for at least 1 GB

I do hope there's going to be embedded RAM on the Rx7xx GPU, at least enough for 1080p unlike Xbox 360's 10 MB which was originally intended for sub-HD resolutions, IIRC (sorry no source to back that up, someone will have to find it but I remember reading her on B3D). If Cafe / Wii HD / Stream / whatever is to at least match Xbox 360 graphics, then it would have to have a chuck of high-bandwidth embedded RAM on chip (or on a seperate die) with at least 256 MB/sec bandwidth.

 

[Squilliam]

Last generation the range was 26-64 or around. This generation goes from 88-512MB. So if you take the average of both excluding the Wii the last generation averaged 43MB, this current generation inclusive averages 370MB. Statistically the Wii fits into the last generations range quite nicely whereas it is an obvious outlier for the current generation...

 

[babcat]

All Sony has to do is include a dual core Series 6 GPU in the PSP 2 and an HDMI connector and they would beat the Wii 2.

 

[Megadrive1988]

basicly, Project Cafe has been confirmed

https://www.warioworld.com/images/splash/cafe_high.jpg

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2011/110425_4e.pdf

 

[Squilliam]

I guess that confirms the timeline. I wonder if the rumour of the Wii using the POWER architecture has any validity?

 

[Nightz]

Just how powerful is the desktop variant of the R700 is it capable of running the Unreal engine Samaritan tech demo for example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSXyztq_0uM&feature=youtube_gdata_player