Sony's NeoGeo Pocket's (PSP2/Vita) business/non technical ramifications talk

[joker454]

Personally I think if Suite is very successful it could be a plus for the NGP

Hmm, personally I think if Suite is succesful then it spells the end of Sony portables. I think with Suite they are looking for a way out of having to make their own portable hardware and instead latch on to someone else(s). It's as if they are hedging their bets. They make NGP just in case as old Sony would do, but they also have Suite as a backup plan in case NGP fails, or perhaps to see if they can make more money being software only in the portable world.

 

[patsu]

Hmm, personally I think if Suite is succesful then it spells the end of Sony portables.

Depends. If there're enough takers for native NGP apps/games and exclusive deals, then they can both be successful.

Naturally, they can both fail too if Sony executes badly.

 

[ShadowRunner]

Hmm, personally I think if Suite is succesful then it spells the end of Sony portables. I think with Suite they are looking for a way out of having to make their own portable hardware and instead latch on to someone else(s). It's as if they are hedging their bets. They make NGP just in case as old Sony would do, but they also have Suite as a backup plan in case NGP fails, or perhaps to see if they can make more money being software only in the portable world.

I dont think its a case of one or the other, they seem to cater for two destinct markets. Until phones start offering dedicated gaming controls there will still be a place for portable consoles imo, the question is whether people actually want a phone with those controlls. We will find out more when the PSP phone launches, if it is successfull im sure we will see a shift in that direction from other phone compainies and then the future of portable consoles comes much clearer.

 

[Nesh]

Hmm, personally I think if Suite is succesful then it spells the end of Sony portables. I think with Suite they are looking for a way out of having to make their own portable hardware and instead latch on to someone else(s). It's as if they are hedging their bets. They make NGP just in case as old Sony would do, but they also have Suite as a backup plan in case NGP fails, or perhaps to see if they can make more money being software only in the portable world.

See it this way. There will be some form of portable ecosystem which if successful, all Playstation certified Android based devices will have Playstation Suite content. That content will not be available on iOS based devices, Windows based devices and Nintendo portables.

There are two possibilities

If there is high demand for this content and its going to harm Sony standalone portables like the NGP it may also have implications on Nintendo also but also strengthen Sony's competition against Apple and devices using Windows, which is what you said

But there is also another possibility that the NGP will be viewed as the only dedicated portable device that can offer both exclusive to NGP content/features and at the same time Playstation Suite content all in a single device. If Playstation Suite works like Qriocity and you will be able to transfer your PS certified phone purchased content to your NGP some will view it as an additional convenience. The NGP is designed to play games. Phones are not even though they are capable of playing games so they arent the most comfortable (this contributes to one of the reasons why people spend less time playing on phones).
So those really interested in gaming (not referring to those spending half an hour a week on portable games while waiting in queues or at a bus station) will prefer the NGP as the gaming platform of choice over other portable devices like phones

If its the latter that happens Sony will gain from the casual market that use everyday portable devices for brief sessions, while at the same time they will offer a gaming dedicated device for the core and casual market interested in longer sessions. I dont think the casual market is comprised only of those that play for a few minutes.

 

[Xpuntar]

There is a market for NGP on the "west". But Sony should take a hint (from mobile entertainemt rise in last few years) that their games are just too expensive.

For wast majority of people paying 40$ or € is just too much for portable game, even if it is in the AAA game.

Another aspect to look is that there are many people even in Europe, who live in countries, where average salary is 800 or even way less and are not inclined to pay so much for one game.

Those people either "pirate" almost everything or just do not buy the system.

And don't forget that even in "rich EU part" you will find individuals, who won't shelve 40€ for one portable game.

 

[draconian]

There is a market for NGP on the "west". But Sony should take a hint (from mobile entertainemt rise in last few years) that their games are just too expensive.

For wast majority of people paying 40$ or € is just too much for portable game, even if it is in the AAA game.

Another aspect to look is that there are many people even in Europe, who live in countries, where average salary is 800 or even way less and are not inclined to pay so much for one game.

Those people either "pirate" almost everything or just do not buy the system.

And don't forget that even in "rich EU part" you will find individuals, who won't shelve 40€ for one portable game.

I agree. Most people don't want to spend a lot of money on AAA games on portables. But then how are developers supposed to make up for the costs? Make all single player games at most 2-4 hour instead of the 6-12 hours?

This is conundrum. and because of this, I don't think the NGP is going to be very successful w/ cinematic high end single player games. There may be a few here and there, but publishers will have to rely on multiplayer/coop games.

 

[Nesh]

There is a market for NGP on the "west". But Sony should take a hint (from mobile entertainemt rise in last few years) that their games are just too expensive.

For wast majority of people paying 40$ or € is just too much for portable game, even if it is in the AAA game.

Another aspect to look is that there are many people even in Europe, who live in countries, where average salary is 800 or even way less and are not inclined to pay so much for one game.

Those people either "pirate" almost everything or just do not buy the system.

And don't forget that even in "rich EU part" you will find individuals, who won't shelve 40€ for one portable game.

I dont know how much Sony charge per unit for royalties but I dont think its solely up to Sony. Console games and dedicated portable games are more expensive to make and they become even more expensive per generation. Hence they cost more to buy. I dont think Sony can do much about it. They need money and the developers need them too. Its like a vicious cycle. They charge more to at least break even, and at the same time many cant afford to buy

 

[Tahir2]

I agree. Most people don't want to spend a lot of money on AAA games on portables. But then how are developers supposed to make up for the costs? Make all single player games at most 2-4 hour instead of the 6-12 hours?

One way is micro-payments that enable new features or new levels.
Another is advertising.

 

[Prophecy2k]

I agree. Most people don't want to spend a lot of money on AAA games on portables. But then how are developers supposed to make up for the costs? Make all single player games at most 2-4 hour instead of the 6-12 hours?

This is conundrum. and because of this, I don't think the NGP is going to be very successful w/ cinematic high end single player games. There may be a few here and there, but publishers will have to rely on multiplayer/coop games.

I would raise the arguement that noone has ever had "AAA" games on handhelds, thus the inclination not to want to spend big money on portable games.

To qualify myself, when i say "AAA" games i'm talking graphics and production values principally. This gen we've had games on the portables looking worse than PS2 games, whilst the console games look incredible by comparison. I own a PSP and i've bought all my PSP games at discount (never at launch) because i couldn't justify paying £30 for a game on PSP that looks so bad when compared with my PS3 games.

On the other hand with 3DS and NGP games are much closer to PS360 level and thus i'd very much be willing to pay £30-£40 for an NGP Mass Effect 3 for instance. Also, considering the likelihood that this gen will continue till 2014-2015, the longer these handhelds have to get people used to the idea of paying for portable games that look on par with their home console counterparts ;-)

I don't subscribe to the view that just because a game is portable it should cost peanuts, especially when the games in question (on the dedicated gaming portables anyway) are as deep and as feature rich as most console games (if not moreso).

Also, if Sony can get some sort of interperability going with NGP so that my ME3 on NGP will share saves with my PS3 version, i would gladly buy the game on both devices so that i can do all the side-quest stuff and planet scanning evil on NGP on my daily commute and then simply upload my progress when i get home.... AWESOME

 

[Arwin]

I would raise the arguement that noone has ever had "AAA" games on handhelds, thus the inclination not to want to spend big money on portable games.

I got my PSP in (late) 2004, two years before the PS3 was even launched. When NGP launches, that will be 7 years ago. You can rest assured that to me many PSP games did in fact feel very AAA, among which Ridge Racer, Daxter, Loco Roco, Lumines 2 (Lumines 1 was cool but a little dodgy technically compared to the pretty much flawless sequel), Burnout Legends, and several other very good titles that felt AAA at least in terms of production (like all MGS releases including Acid, and Killzone Liberation), even if I didn't end up playing them as much.

By the time the PS3 came into full swing, PSP game prices were going down pretty fast (though there were exceptions). Nowadays I agree that currently released PSP games should not be more than half the price of a PS3 game.

I don't subscribe to the view that just because a game is portable it should cost peanuts, especially when the games in question (on the dedicated gaming portables anyway) are as deep and as feature rich as most console games (if not moreso).

Agreed. And as for interoperability, there was some precedent where with one of the FIFA's I think you could continue your PS3 game on PSP, but there wasn't much. It will be easier for NGP and PS3 no doubt, partly thanks to an almost 1:1 overlap in available controls (even most of the stuff you can do with Move can be picked up in some form by the NGP with its gyro, 2 touch panels and 2 cameras), as well as graphical prowess. This will last a little longer than between PSP and PS2, though how much longer remains to be seen.

 

[Xmas]

I dont know how much Sony charge per unit for royalties but I dont think its solely up to Sony. Console games and dedicated portable games are more expensive to make and they become even more expensive per generation. Hence they cost more to buy. I dont think Sony can do much about it. They need money and the developers need them too. Its like a vicious cycle. They charge more to at least break even, and at the same time many cant afford to buy

There's no rule that says games have to become more expensive to make. The studios'/publishers' willingness to spend directly depends on the expected revenues. If they expect the market to shrink they'll have to cut some non-essential expenses.

 

[Bigduo209]

Depends. If there're enough takers for native NGP apps/games and exclusive deals, then they can both be successful.

Naturally, they can both fail too if Sony executes badly.

Well that's the thing with Sony, any actual success relies on the company being good at making/managing software (which MS, Apple, and Google excel at). The NGP as hardware is one thing; but actually delivering on quality standout games, a flexible online service, and possibly non-gaming/convenient apps is another.

The NGP's hardware specs maybe strong, but when it comes to software Sony is gonna have to work hard on all fronts to make it work. If they don't then they're not going to go beyond what they have done with PSP. Having the same mobile games and dedicated handheld titles the competition has still won't make a compelling case why consumers should get rid of the current mobile devices they have already invested serious money into.

There is a market for NGP on the "west". But Sony should take a hint (from mobile entertainemt rise in last few years) that their games are just too expensive.

For wast majority of people paying 40$ or € is just too much for portable game, even if it is in the AAA game.

Another aspect to look is that there are many people even in Europe, who live in countries, where average salary is 800 or even way less and are not inclined to pay so much for one game.

Those people either "pirate" almost everything or just do not buy the system.

And don't forget that even in "rich EU part" you will find individuals, who won't shelve 40€ for one portable game.

Yeah I don't see how well the console experience may work on the NGP. Even if there's some great portable spin-offs of existing IPs with some decent connectivity options to the console counterparts, you're still talking about a heavy investment upfront. Unless we're talking cheaper NGP games or a smart 'buy one, get other half-off', I only see a limited amount of success centered around a small number of people willing to buy into something that costly upfront (most likely existing PSP owners).

 

[Nesh]

There's no rule that says games have to become more expensive to make. The studios'/publishers' willingness to spend directly depends on the expected revenues. If they expect the market to shrink they'll have to cut some non-essential expenses.

Such rule doesnt exist but there is another "rule" that says if you are interested in more expensive to make games you will pay more. If you want cheaper to make games you will pay less.

If you arent interested in games for which the NGP or 3DS were specifically developed for, you wouldnt complain about the price of their games because you will be already satisfied with cheaper, less powerful devices that play cheaper to make games. By the time that these devices were designed for such games, and the developers choose to take advantage of the more powerful hardware that you paid extra, you cant complain why a high profile 3DS or NGP game cost so much. The hardware is there for a reason. If you are interested on said games you will buy the associated product and will have to pay the associated price.


If the market isnt large enough to support them its another matter.

Perhaps you should send an email to developers and Sony and ask why they charged 40 for games such as Metal Gear Peace Walker while they could have made other cheaper games? Hmmm?

 

[RudeCurve]

If the market isnt large enough to support them its another matter.

...and that's the million dollar question...

The NGP's hardware specs maybe strong, but when it comes to software Sony is gonna have to work hard on all fronts to make it work. If they don't then they're not going to go beyond what they have done with PSP. Having the same mobile games and dedicated handheld titles the competition has still won't make a compelling case why consumers should get rid of the current mobile devices they have already invested serious money into.

Even the stock GUI/theme looks ugly IMO....I've seen custom themes on PSP that look better. It's not just me as I've heard many people say the same thing. I think XMB in 3D would be pretty cool with touch interface.

SONY needs to do better.

 

[Nesh]

...and that's the million dollar question...

Well they will either loose millions or gain millions to know that answer by releasing their products in the market.

 

[patsu]

Even the stock GUI/theme looks ugly IMO....I've seen custom themes on PSP that look better. It's not just me as I've heard many people say the same thing. I think XMB in 3D would be pretty cool with touch interface.

SONY needs to do better.

I agree. The functionality is there. They should touch up their UI. Otherwise, it'd end up like MediaGo.

 

[patsu]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/288503/news/sony-ngp-wont-kill-off-psp-yoshida/

Shuhei Yoshida, president of Sony Computer Entertainment worldwide studios, has told Edge that Sony NGP and PSP will co-exist when the former launches later this year.

The exec said it wouldn't make business sense to kill off the original PSP because the company's currently "struggling to meet" consumer demand for the platform, which launched in late 2004.

"The NGP features everything Sony can and wants to do today," he said. "It's a platform looking forward with great ambition.

"It can't replace a platform that has already been on sale for seven years now. In terms of pricing, we can't sell the NGP for the same price as a PSP. The PSP has become very affordable and popular, especially with younger generations.

"I think the NGP needs time to mature and get adopted by users," he added. "So, for the time being, both platforms will coexist."

EDIT:
http://www.videogamer.com/news/sony_real_name_for_ngp_to_be_revealed_later_this_year.html

Sony Computer Entertainment will announce the real name of its PSP successor, codenamed NGP, later this year, Shuhei Yoshida, president, SCE worldwide studios, has told Edge magazine.

Asked why the handheld wasn't announced as the PSP2, Yoshida said: "Well, NGP is the codename we've used since 2008. We will announce the final name of the console sometime later this year."

 

[patsu]

This Is Ubisoft’s Portable Games Development Strategy:
http://www.siliconera.com/2011/02/14/this-is-ubisofts-portable-games-development-strategy/

At an investor Q&A earlier today, Ubisoft CEO, Yves Guillemot outlined the company’s portable games strategy for investors, where he revealed that Ubisoft’s primary focus will be to develop strong brands on high-end consoles, but that they want to be able to extend those franchises to portable machines.

"Our goal is to go with very strong brands on high-end machines, but in going to portable machines, to be able to port those games to all platforms that are available," Guillemot said to investors, revealing that PSP game, Assassin’s Creed: Bloodlines, has sold 500,000 units to date since its release two years ago, including PSP bundle sales.

Additionally, once Ubisoft make games for the Nintendo 3DS and NGP, they’d like to be able to further port those to other portable platforms at lower prices, Guillemot revealed.

“We are working to make sure that the games we create for portable machines can be adapted for those platforms, so that after making good revenue on 3DS or PSP2, we can go to a second phase, which is going at a lower price to other machines,” Guillemot said to investors.

 

[Bigduo209]

Even the stock GUI/theme looks ugly IMO....I've seen custom themes on PSP that look better. It's not just me as I've heard many people say the same thing. I think XMB in 3D would be pretty cool with touch interface.

SONY needs to do better.

Wait, do you mean the official Sony custom themes for the PSP, or hacked PSPs with homebrew custom themes? If it's the former it doesn't mean much to me considering the support behind that died easily since Sony never updated the XMB theme tools. The latter though is some truly amazing stuff; every time I see a good homebrew theme on a hacked PSP I wonder how come hackers can do this, but a multimillion dollar corporation can't take a similar approach.

I never hacked my PSP, but I've seen some interesting things pop-up on other PSPs trough illegal means that Sony never learned from (like a PSP app community before the iPhone came out).

I hope Sony makes a more serious focus into software development, not completely into that area, but bring-up some real creative thought into software going forward. PS Suite has to be proof of their appraoch on software, not just some halfhearted dev-tool for porting PSP/PS1 games to mobile devices.

This Is Ubisoft’s Portable Games Development Strategy:
http://www.siliconera.com/2011/02/14/this-is-ubisofts-portable-games-development-strategy/

As long Ubisoft and 3rd parties focus on making unique games for the 3DS/NGP then I don't care about them porting those games to other mobile devices (phones, DS, PSP1). My problem comes when eveything is just cashing-in on those console games/brands without no real intent on making some genuinely entertaining handheld titles.

Is Ubisoft's track record with handheld games even decent? AC: Bloodlines as far as I know was mediocre, and I only know of the Petz games on the DS.

 

[patsu]

This may be relevant to NGP (for Japan market)…

Monster Hunter Pushes Adhoc Party Above a Million Downloads:

Surprising news today from Sony: PSP owners like to continue playing games together even after they've returned home. The PlayStation 3 app that allows just that, Adhoc Party, has topped the one million download mark domestically, Sony announced today.

...

While Adhoc Party became available on November 6, 2008, the app saw major growth following the release of Monster Hunter Portable 3rd. From December 1, 2010, MHP3rd's release date, to December 31, the app was downloaded over 200,000 times.