Riddlewire
Regular
Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2022] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]
- Thread starter BRiT
- Start date
The Samsung KS8000 despite being a set from 2016 offering 120 Hz is quite impressive for the time.
The Hisense older sets you listed have this note on RTings: "Unfortunately, it doesn't have many gaming features like variable refresh rate (VRR) support, and despite having a 120Hz panel, it doesn't properly display any 120Hz signal." So would it even be able to display a 40 FPS game mode since it has to be set at 120 HZ with vsync? So not suitable for either enhanced mode.
D
Deleted member 11852
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No, HDMI is a weird beast. The only hardware reliant aspect is the core bus controller which ultimately dictates what the maximum bandwidth of the connection will be but HDMI is largely software/firmware.
The HDMI versions (1.4, 1.4a, 2.0, 2.0a, 2.1 etc) only dictate what features devices may support with most HDMI functions. Outside of carrying basic audio and video, most features are being entirely optional, e.g. ethernet over HDMI was introduced in HDMI 1.4 but remains largely unsupported even between HDMI 2.1 devices.
When you connect two devices a negotiation phase determines the common standards and features supported by both side then the host device (console/PC) drives what the display device will do. Whilst VRR was only added in HDMI 2.1, as a software feature there is no reason why VRR couldn't work on two HDMI 2.0 devices other than the consortium agreed that new features would only be supported in newer versions of the standard - despite the vast majority of HDMI controllers having upgradable firmware.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
VRR at least on displays requires hardware support. I've been tracking this since Korean 2nd and 3rd tier display manufacturer's started to implement VRR in TV sets (pre-HDMI 2.1, around 2015). They weren't able to start supporting it until chips supporting VRR started to appear at TV manufacturing suppliers. And then even if they were using a chip that had support for VRR, the TV still needed firmware to enable it.
Perhaps that changed with HDMI 2.1. But considering that TV chipsets are built to HDMI specifications (to enable required and optional HDMI features), I'd have a hard time believing that hardware support isn't required.
This misconception that it doesn't require hardware support is likely due to the fact that most if not all TV chipsets in use today support VRR in hardware, but some TV manufacturers choose not to expose that in their TV sets. For example, any current Sony OLED is using an LG panel with a chipset likely provided by LG. Hence, by default they have hardware support for VRR. However, Sony's firmware for their TV sets don't expose that functionality.
It's also required on the display out side. Just because VRR is now fairly commonplace, desktop hardware that predates VRR implementation by a graphics IHV can't suddenly support VRR. Talking about when IHVs were still support those GPU chip generations. Laptop GPU's had a limited form of VRR (hardware support) prior to all of this that is similar to but not the same as what constitutes modern VRR.
Interesting fact, while NV's G-Sync wasn't based on the earlier but related functionality in laptops, AMD's FreeSync (which is now HDMI 2.1 VRR) has its roots in the original hardware laptop solution. AMD just expanded that functionality, labeled their version FreeSync and then provided it royalty free to VESA to be standardized. VESA then label that support as Adaptive Sync. This is what forms the basis for VRR support in HDMI 2.1 and why many TV manufacturers still label it as FreeSync in their TV options.
Regards,
SB
Last edited:
Oh absolutely. I think right now they really are in that limbo where PS5 has no VRR, their TVs have no VRR, and they're sitting there wondering what the demand for VRR is?
D
Deleted member 11852
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The display obviously has to be able to support variable frame rates but there is no intrinsic HDMI hardware required to support VRR. The implementation is simply a new HDMI command that allows the host device to specific a framerate between two points frequencies that the display device supports.
There is no reason, other than a software standards implementation, that a panel supporting variable framerate connected to a HMDI 2.0 device could not support variable frame rates. If your HDMI 2.0 display can drive 4K at 60hz and can also support variable 25hz thru 60hz in 1hz increments that VRR between 25 and 60hz at 4K couldn't be supported. What prevents it is the way HDMI insists standards negotiation operates.
Riddlewire
Regular
Power consumption of Elden Ring on Xbox consoles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDdF2idy15c
The power consumption on Series S is the lowest of any game he has tested so far. Although that's not really saying much, since every game stays in the 70W-80W range.
The power consumption on Series S is the lowest of any game he has tested so far. Although that's not really saying much, since every game stays in the 70W-80W range.
Timestamps:
00:00 - Prioritize Frame Rate Mode (Perf Mode)
08:04 - Prioritize Quality Mode
16:57 - PS5 Frame Rate Mode vs PS4 Pro version running on PS5.
PS5 and Xbox Series X in Frame Rate Mode use a dynamic resolution with the highest resolution found being 3840x2160 and the lowest resolution found being 2688x1512. Pixel counts at 3840x2160 are very rare on PS5 and Xbox Series X in Frame Rate Mode.
PS5 in Frame Rate Mode seems to have a resolution advantage over the Xbox Series X. As an example, during the opening scene of the game (not the opening clip in the video) the PS5 renders at approximately 3093x1740 and the Xbox Series X renders at 2880x1620. However, there are scenes in the game where both PS5 and Xbox Series X render at a resolution of 2688x1512 such as scenes with a lot of vegetation on screen.
Xbox Series S in Frame Rate Mode uses a dynamic resolution with the highest resolution found being 2560x1440 and the lowest resolution found being 1792x1008. Pixel counts at 2560x1440 are very rare on Xbox Series S in Frame Rate Mode and pixel counts at 1792x1008 seem to be common on Xbox Series S in Frame Rate Mode.
The only resolution found on PS5 and Xbox Series X in Quality Mode was 3840x2160.
Xbox Series S in Quality Mode uses a dynamic resolution with the highest resolution found being 2560x1440 and the lowest resolution found being approximately 2304x1296. Pixel counts at 2560x1440 seem to be common on Xbox Series S in Quality Mode.
PS5 running the PS4 Pro version of the game renders at a resolution of 3200x1800 and appears to use a form of checkerboard rendering to reach this resolution.
All three consoles appear to dynamically change shadow quality in Prioritize Quality Mode. An example of this can be seen here on Xbox Series X https://youtu.be/akvmW0NIvKo Reduced shadow quality was noticed more often on Xbox Series X than PS5 https://bit.ly/3pq39vF Shadow quality in both modes is also lower quality on Series S than the other two consoles.
Motion blur appears to dynamically turn on and off on all three consoles in Frame Rate Mode. An example of this can be seen here on PS5 https://youtu.be/uOMEFyuKZU4 Motion Blur seems to be disabled less often on PS5 than the Xbox Series consoles. In rare cases the motion blur can also turn off on Xbox Series S in Quality Mode.
Stats: https://bit.ly/3I8fhst
Frames Pixel Counted: https://bit.ly/3HinpVT
I thought I saw a post on here, where somebody eluded to vrr coming this year on PS5, based on SDK info they had seen. I tried searching the forums for it, but no hits... So I might have dreamt it...
I wonder if it's not done on purpose to improve performance when needed. Similar to motion blur quality on Driveclub that is actually dynamic, as it depends of GPU load.
I really hope it will come asap. Unfortunately many games are released in far from optimal state, patching and fixing performance issues takes weeks or even months, VRR seems like the only option we have right now to enjoy those games.
VRR does not really fix all the issues. You still have problems with uneven frames and therefore animation (micro stuttering). But it is still better than nothing but I would still prefer a rock stable 60fps framerate.
Yeah, it's not a complete fix but it does at least help with things like animation. With VRR the time between any two frames is far closer than dropping a frame with fixed sync, so using last frame time to calculate next frame simulation (e.g. time.deltatime) is far closer to how it should be.
If you have a very smooth curve of frame times i.e. no sudden spikes or troughs it can be practically indistinguishable from a fixed refresh operating around that frame rate. And if VRR allows you operate above your fixed threshold e.g. 70 ~ 90 fps instead of 60 then the perceived overall quality of motion (not to mention responsiveness) can actually be significantly better.
Anecdote: I had a 144hz Gsync monitor for a while. When I switched to it I was impressed with just how close to 60 fps that Gsync ~50 fps felt. When I switched back to my old fixed sync 60 hz monitor I felt like I'd just gone back to the stone age. It was nice to get, but 10x worse to lose. We take nice things for granted very quickly.
I've heard that a lot
PS5:
Fidelity: 2160p at 30fps
Performance: 1440p at 60fps
RT Performance: Dynamic 1440p at 60fps
92,76Gb
Series X:
Fidelity: 2160p at 30fps
Performance: 1440p at 60fps
RT Performance: Dynamic 1440p at 60fps
87,80Gb
Series S:
Fidelity: 1440p at 30fps
Performance: 1080p at 60fps
87,80Gb
PC:
105,14Gb
- PC does not have Nextgen patch. The version used is from 2015 with all settings in Ultra.
- PS5 version improves startup load time by removing part of the intro cinematic.
- All versions have the same textures.
- PS5 has a clear performance advantage over Xbox Series S/X. Xbox consoles have an uneven framerate in demanding moments.
- The Xbox Series X and PS5 versions have better shadows and ambient occlusion in some cases than the PC version using Nvidia PCSS. These shadows seem to be generated by ray tracing, but I'm not sure if it's really this technology.
- Xbox Series S has some shading cutbacks and no RT Performance mode.
- The PC version still has a greater draw distance in assets, but less in shadows (even with the advanced long shadows mode).
- Console versions also add some extra lighting fixes and effects.
- PS5 may experience some graphical shadow bugs when changing display modes.
- Performance and Performance RT modes seem to use some sort of temporal reconstruction.
- Fidelity mode has better shadows, reflections, depth of field than the other two modes.
- Fidelity mode reflections on consoles are slightly higher quality than the PC version.
- The PC version has a higher density of vegetation.
- In general there is a very similar result to the PC version in Ultra (still quite demanding today).
- The improvements of this Nextgen version are comparable to those of Ghost of Tsushima or Death Stranding. These improvements are far from the ones they brought to PS4/ONE/PC with respect to PS3/360.
Lol this game. I was celebrating last month it didn’t make it to the charts.
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