News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[bkilian]

wha.....
the current kinect already work in less then perfect lighting condition.

- it already work in darkness. The lightsource is only HDTV, i play Child of eden.
- it already work indoor with sunlight coming in. (when i open my bedroom door while playing kinect sports to get fresh air)

Kinect ID requires good lighting (It uses the RGB camera), you're right that the rest of the system will work fine in pitch dark. Too much sunlight can cause some issues though.

 

[function]

Kinect ID requires good lighting (It uses the RGB camera), you're right that the rest of the system will work fine in pitch dark. Too much sunlight can cause some issues though.

What would you need to do with the 3D camera to be able to make a correct ID selection using just that? Face shape and IR absorption/reflection on Kinect should give you something, but how far off being good enough do you think the current technology is?

 

[bkilian]

What would you need to do with the 3D camera to be able to make a correct ID selection using just that? Face shape and IR absorption/reflection on Kinect should give you something, but how far off being good enough do you think the current technology is?

The resolution of the 3d camera is not currently good enough to do reasonable recognition. The noise alone would throw off the system.

You could either drastically increase the resolution of the 3d camera, or make the RGB camera need less light (Increase lens aperture/don't rely on visible spectrum light, etc). We did attempt a 3d based system at one point, using things like limb lengths/height/torso-leg ratio etc, but it didn't pan out.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The resolution of the 3d camera is not currently good enough to do reasonable recognition.

Isn't it like 2 generations from that sort of resolution? Kinect was 10cm's accurate in the z-direction IIRC. To scan a face accurately would want submillimetre accuracy. Even then, colour is going to be a far better decider for lips and eyes than depth. I think optical cameras are a good addition for any camera-based system. Actually, essential for things like AR and background-removal composites. So if an otpical camera is going to be in there, may as well use that for the face recognition.

 

[orangpelupa]

ah yes, the Kinect ID. I almost never use that feature so i kind of forgot it (in kinect sports its faster to just login with choosing the login rather than waiting kinectID to kick-in).

btw i noticed the KinectID training program is different between NXE dash and Metro dash. It now need less ridiculous pose.

Doesn't kinect have some issues with a particular skin colour? Maybe there are problems with a certain combination of that with lighting (or clothing even). I could be wrong about that, just heard some rumblings awhile back about it.

ah yes, it have problem with black t-shirt that i have.

everytime i use it, kinect wont work good. (in kinect sports it make non responsive game and glitchy movements).

luckily, that t-shirt is the only black t-shirt i have and its already broken. so i kind of forgot that kinect have problem like that

 

[N2O]

Nukezilla's news always are fake news,it even get locked in neogaf(and the site is banned)
not sure why discuss it

 

[AzBat]

Only posted for the sake of completeness. One day we will get the full details & then we can laugh or be shocked in amazement. LOL

Tommy McClain

 

[Rangers]

Nukezilla's news always are fake news,it even get locked in neogaf(and the site is banned)
not sure why discuss it

Yeah, this is a pretty sophisticated site, so sometimes I wish people would be a little more sophisticated in parsing rumors.

 

[AzBat]

Aye aye captain!

Tommy McClain

 

[kagemaru]

I don't have the time right now to go through the next gen prediction thread to see if this has been posted but someone directed me to this older thread from earlier this year, where someone who claims to work at MS was giving out hints regarding Durango. I was wondering if any of this made sense to anyone *cough*bkilian*cough* perhaps?

The comments start here:

http://showtimeforfree.com/index.php?topic=4697.15

Backwards compat is a priority for sure.

A common scenario we talk about is the exact scenario you're in, Cuco. It's the same scenario I'm in, and a scenario we see as a *very* high priority one for launch of the next platform.

We anticipate many early adopters will have other 360's in different rooms in the house, but the next box will be the one they'll want connected to their best TV, and the best sound system because the core content that will be on that box will beg for high-end equipment.

We'll want profiles and 360 content to be able to hop between any of those boxes, while reserving the best 'AAAA' "next" content for the box connected in your living room.

20... 5T,8T - 4G, 6G ...13

so darkfalz really work for microsoft. what is his position?

and those 4GB. i believe it's CPU, that would be too much RAM

Too much ram, eh?

We'll see how that plays out...

I think it's really wise to reserve judgment until you've had a chance to really consider what you want, and what's important.

I can assure everyone here - Microsoft has no intention of orphaning the 360 the way we had to abandon Xbox 1. We're intending families to keep/use their 360's even after they buy into the next gen.

We'll continue supporting 360 in all kinds of ways even after the next gen launch... so anyone who doesn't want to dive directly into next gen will have plenty of content to keep them busy until they do make the plunge.

That said, the new system will rock your world... I can't wait for us to unleash the plan to our customers... because it's finally a plan I think only Microsoft is positioned to deliver. We're finally bringing together ALL of our strengths, and making something that no one else could really truly compete with... I'm sure Sony's next machine will be great, and I'm sure Nintendo's WiiU will have some great games - but I know that neither of them are positioned to truly compete with what we've got on the horizon... it's really, really exciting. I was enthused for our 360 launch, and I was *REALLY* excited about the potential Kinect unleashed to the world of electronics, but this is by far the most excited I've ever been for any of our products, and I've been working at MS for nearly 12 years now.

Ok, well, you know here at Showtime for Free, we have some great members.. anyways.. some of these members know some people... I'll I'm going to say is we saw some really cool interesting hints, well.. possible hints, regarding the "Durango" on the great SfF chat room. Spoilers of a sort, abound...

Spoiler

I'll give you a bit more info around the 5t, 8t, 4G, 6G...

Spoiler

5 and 4 are related.

Spoiler

6 and 8 are related

Spoiler

T is the first letter for something G is the first letter for something

Spoiler

T----, and G----

Spoiler

voltan: t is....terabytes? nope!

Spoiler

Yes... 6G 8T - related... 4G 5T related

Spoiler

miD:: G.. games? Hmmm... you might be on to something there, Mid... ;-)

Spoiler

the 4/5 and 6/8 refer to something with regards to specs... not games...

Spoiler

Well, now I've given you a hint about the games, and a hint about the specs... just remember this when we do our official announcements...

So there you have it... what can this mean? Can anyone figure out based on these cryptic messages?

Would love to tell you guys more... but we're being super-ultra careful about this, and I don't want to risk any negative reprecussions by saying anything.

I will say this much, though, a fair amount of the rumors have strong truth behind them.

Those are all the quotes from the thread worth posting IMO. Sorry if this has been found/mentioned before and it's probably all nothing anyways, but I'm bored at work right now.

Anyone have any thoughts on these?

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I'll throw the first rock:

There's this GPU+APU theory, right?

It's a 5TFlop/s GPU (feasible if using a VLIW4/5 architecture in a chip as big as Tahiti on 28nm?) with 4GB of dedicated VRAM.
Then there's the APU with a combined iGPU+CPU peak performance of 3TFlop/s and 2GB of system memory.

Maybe a developer can go:

1- Discrete GPU only for the main screen: 5TFlop/s + 4GB of VRAM. The APU's iGPU could be dedicated to a screen controller or an evolution to SmartGlass. 5T/4G related.

2 -Go all out on the main screen, having a total of 5TFLop/s on the dGPU + 3TFLop/s on the CPU+iGPU = 8TFLop/s total, and 4GB+2GB = 6GB total. 8T/6G related.



Of course, these would be huge chips for a console, and very expensive to make.
And that is something that "only Microsoft is in a position to deliver".

 

[kagemaru]

Oh also forgot these two little tid-bits, not in this thread but apparently from the same source:

i'll just leave it at this since it's all hearsay and rumor anyways.... but i'm hearing it's the same design with analog sticks that rumble, as well as trigger buttons that rumble. and also some kind of screen in the middle of it.

again..... all rumor and hearsay, but i haven't been let down yet in anything i've been told in the past. but sounds interesting if true. wonder how it will integrate smartglass and stuff like that with it. again.. if true.

i'll leave ya with this one not that it's a big deal or anything..but Perfect Dark will be a release game for the Durango as well. So i've been told.

 

[Rangers]

Those last two "hints" seem pretty fake. Strongly doubt any screen in the controller (people who dont have any creativity must think these rumors up "well Wii U does it so the others will too"), doubt any PDZ game coming. Then again you say "apparently" from the same source. So if it's not the same source then the other stuff could still be credible.

Theres no way to really make the numbers work as teraflops and GB's (unless this is one insane console). This sounds fake to me.

 

[kagemaru]

Those last two "hints" seem pretty fake. Strongly doubt any screen in the controller (people who dont have any creativity must think these rumors up "well Wii U does it so the others will too"), doubt any PDZ game coming. Then again you say "apparently" from the same source. So if it's not the same source then the other stuff could still be credible.

In context to how the conversation played out, I'm pretty sure it's from the same source as my earlier post.

Also, PDZ was a success AFAIK, so I'm honestly surprised there hasn't been another PD game by now. Would love to see what Rare could do on the 360 with a PD game now, I'm sure it would look great for a current gen game.

 

[Rangers]

I dont know that rare even has any hardcore personnel left.

Sure it's possible I suppose, I just dont deem it very likely.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I dont know that rare even has any hardcore personnel left.

What does that even mean? They started making kinect games so you believe it has made them unable to make anything else?

 

[Rangers]

Pretty much, yeah. If the whole culture has changed to Kinect stuff you dont just go tell them to make call of duty. As far as I can tell that studio is fully kinect-tisized. I remember a interview with some Rare guy,higher up I think, and they asked something like "what is your dream" or something and he said something like, to build something that people of all ages can enjoy and breaks down barriers or something. Nothing that anybody from a core studio would say, but exactly what a Wii studio person would say.

 

[Ruskie]

I don't know whats the roadmap for 3d stacking, but it seems to me that MS and Sony wouldn't like to miss that train. Especially since AMD is one that is pushing forward with it. Imagine them releasing console that is ~2 TFLOPS in power just because they are TDP limited, and they could get twice that the next year. Pff...7-8 another years with missed tech mark.

 

[McHuj]

So...

8 Threads with 6GB of RAM with 5 Threads and 4 GB's available to gaming? Would be inline with other rumors suggesting a large portion of RAM dedicated to the OS/Apps and some hardware threads/cores reserved.

 

[kagemaru]

Pretty much, yeah. If the whole culture has changed to Kinect stuff you dont just go tell them to make call of duty. As far as I can tell that studio is fully kinect-tisized. I remember a interview with some Rare guy,higher up I think, and they asked something like "what is your dream" or something and he said something like, to build something that people of all ages can enjoy and breaks down barriers or something. Nothing that anybody from a core studio would say, but exactly what a Wii studio person would say.

I highly doubt a team would be incapable of providing "core" experiences just because they made a few Kinect games. If that were the case, someone better warn Crytek that they won't be able to produce any more shooters or core games if they bother making Ryse for Kinect.

I don't know whats the roadmap for 3d stacking, but it seems to me that MS and Sony wouldn't like to miss that train. Especially since AMD is one that is pushing forward with it. Imagine them releasing console that is ~2 TFLOPS in power just because they are TDP limited, and they could get twice that the next year. Pff...7-8 another years with missed tech mark.

I thought 3D stacking was ruled out on this board for many reasons.

So...

8 Threads with 6GB of RAM with 5 Threads and 4 GB's available to gaming? Would be inline with other rumors suggesting a large portion of RAM dedicated to the OS/Apps and some hardware threads/cores reserved.

If this is the case, that's disappointing. Many of the rumors have sounded disappointing though, so it's not a huge surprise.