European Console Sales 2010

[Toaddio]

Except that pretty much all of those places sell boxed copies of office and windows. Even the damned sony style stores sell office and windows. I think you'll be hard pressed to find many stores that sell Sony products and no MS products. Aside from maybe some camera shops (that won't be carrying PS brand either).

High margin, boxed software is in a different league than low margin electronics. It's not necessarily easy to convince retailers to take a loss on hardware and hope to make up the difference on game software.

 

[NathansFortune]

Except that pretty much all of those places sell boxed copies of office and windows. Even the damned sony style stores sell office and windows. I think you'll be hard pressed to find many stores that sell Sony products and no MS products. Aside from maybe some camera shops (that won't be carrying PS brand either).

I've been around Asia and you can buy PSPs and PS3s in all major cities, whether by imports from Japan or from a local distributor through an official channel. There is almost no presence from Xbox in these regions despite the fact that they sell boxed software and pre-installed software in these countries. The same rings true for eastern Europe and a lot of Latin America. Between these regions Sony probably ship 1.5m units a year that Microsoft can't reach.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I've been around Asia and you can buy PSPs and PS3s in all major cities, whether by imports from Japan or from a local distributor through an official channel. There is almost no presence from Xbox in these regions despite the fact that they sell boxed software and pre-installed software in these countries. The same rings true for eastern Europe and a lot of Latin America. Between these regions Sony probably ship 1.5m units a year that Microsoft can't reach.

Can't isn't the right word.

 

[NathansFortune]

If they could, they would. I think they will with the next Xbox, but for now they will work on breaking Continental Europe with Kinect and maybe BRIC nations once the price of entry goes down.

 

[NavNucST3]

...

I can tell you now that outside of the traditional markets PS3 is much stronger than Wii or 360. Sony have an amazing distribution network because of the nature of their industry. They can push the consoles in BRIC nations and other developing countries where their middle classes are growing at a massive rate.

(This is all for hardware spend, not including software)

From that paragraph one might get the impression that the PS3 officially launched in each of those regions first when in fact the 360 had been on sale in Brazil years before the PS3 and months before in both India and Russia. While one can make the case that importing can and has happened that is not germane to the discussion about which company has logistics and distribution within a country.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yes, that's something I don't quite get regards NathansFortune's pont - XB360 is officially available in these countries. So what's the difference? Are we saying MS supplies to these countries, but only tiny amounts that you can only find them in one or two major cities, while PS3's are available in every good department store? Surely the affluent elite Sony and MS would be selling to won't have any trouble sourcing these consoles if they want one?

 

[NathansFortune]

It's very easy to put a few units in a massive department store in the biggest city. Not so easy to get your stuff out to smaller cities and stores. In India for example I have only seen Xbox in Bombay and Delhi, but you can order PS3s in almost every major city in India and some towns as well. Same goes for China, PS3 is available to buy in most major cities while 360 is limited to Beijing (actually Sanlitun to be more specific) and parts of Guangdong province (which is where they are made). Like I said, it is about reach, Sony have a much bigger reach in all of these countries because of the nature of their business. They have been shipping electronic equipment and consumer devices to these countries for the better part of 30 years.

 

[NavNucST3]

It's very easy to put a few units in a massive department store in the biggest city. Not so easy to get your stuff out to smaller cities and stores. In India for example I have only seen Xbox in Bombay and Delhi, but you can order PS3s in almost every major city in India and some towns as well. Same goes for China, PS3 is available to buy in most major cities while 360 is limited to Beijing (actually Sanlitun to be more specific) and parts of Guangdong province (which is where they are made). Like I said, it is about reach, Sony have a much bigger reach in all of these countries because of the nature of their business. They have been shipping electronic equipment and consumer devices to these countries for the better part of 30 years.

This is still...I mean...are you under the impression that Microsoft would not be able to put their merchandise on the same truck? You are making it seem as if there is some magical way of moving hundreds to thousands of products in a country. Its like people don't believe that the PS3 line is near the 360 line at foxconn or that these items aren't on the exact same freighters and half the time the same trucking companies. There isn't really a difference between moving hardware and moving software they are all on a pallet on a truck sure you can get more copies of windows on a pallet than you can some PCs but those items are making the same trip (generally). Warehouse, truck, freighter, truck, warehouse, and then some deviance but getting into the country there is no magic fairy that gets one companies products into the country that the other companies can't and don't use. I think some are confusing strategic planning with logistical capabilities.

EDIT: China? Is either platform officially sold there, if not, this gets back to my import statement and it not being germane.

 

[TrungGap]

It's very easy to put a few units in a massive department store in the biggest city. Not so easy to get your stuff out to smaller cities and stores. In India for example I have only seen Xbox in Bombay and Delhi, but you can order PS3s in almost every major city in India and some towns as well. Same goes for China, PS3 is available to buy in most major cities while 360 is limited to Beijing (actually Sanlitun to be more specific) and parts of Guangdong province (which is where they are made). Like I said, it is about reach, Sony have a much bigger reach in all of these countries because of the nature of their business. They have been shipping electronic equipment and consumer devices to these countries for the better part of 30 years.

I'm currently living in Shanghai, I find that xbox is more readily available then PS3. This is mainly because of privacy. Where it's easier to sell copied xbox games than PS3. However, having said that...Wii have both of them beaten by a long shot. There seem to be a lot of interests in the Kinect from my Chinese coworkers, though they can't buy them here...it must be special order. PC games are the main course here...consoles are pale in comparison.

What I find hard to come by is legit (original) xbox and PS3 games. I have to fly back to the states to buy them, as I'm not willing to pay ridiculous import price here...Since I can't speak/read Mandarin.

What's interesting is a few of my Chinese coworkers own PS3, though they brought it from the states (special order). They don't own any PS3 games, they brought a lot of Bluray movies mostly imported in, because the price of real bluray movies here is more expensive than in the states. They have a pretty sizable collection, which when you compare their disposable income...they're really dedicated to this bluray thing. For them it's an honor to own a real bluray movie -- not a cheap DVD knockoff...btw you can't tell the difference between real dvd and $1 dvd copy...since they're pressed DVD....it comes with cover insert and everything...

 

[Silent_Buddha]

As well, while there's certainly growth potential for those countries the fact is that other than Japan, NA, Europe and Austrailia/NZ, software revenue for all major publishers is less than 10% and in the majority of cases less than 5% for all of those other countries combined the last time I checked (Software publisher financial reports).

So at best you can say it's there, but neither company is going to make or break sales projections due to just those countries. Perhaps hardware is selling at an abnormally high rate in those countries compared to software, but I find that unlikely at least for the PS3 where up until recently software piracy hasn't been much of a factor.

Regards,
SB

 

[tuna]

It's very easy to put a few units in a massive department store in the biggest city. Not so easy to get your stuff out to smaller cities and stores. In India for example I have only seen Xbox in Bombay and Delhi, but you can order PS3s in almost every major city in India and some towns as well. Same goes for China, PS3 is available to buy in most major cities while 360 is limited to Beijing (actually Sanlitun to be more specific) and parts of Guangdong province (which is where they are made). Like I said, it is about reach, Sony have a much bigger reach in all of these countries because of the nature of their business. They have been shipping electronic equipment and consumer devices to these countries for the better part of 30 years.

When I was in Qingdao I thought XB360 was as available as the PS3. So you are wrong

 

[Toaddio]

This is still...I mean...are you under the impression that Microsoft would not be able to put their merchandise on the same truck?

High margin, boxed software is in a different league than low margin electronics. It's not necessarily easy to convince retailers to take a loss on hardware and hope to make up the difference on game software.

 

[Brad Grenz]

This is still...I mean...are you under the impression that Microsoft would not be able to put their merchandise on the same truck? You are making it seem as if there is some magical way of moving hundreds to thousands of products in a country. Its like people don't believe that the PS3 line is near the 360 line at foxconn or that these items aren't on the exact same freighters and half the time the same trucking companies. There isn't really a difference between moving hardware and moving software they are all on a pallet on a truck sure you can get more copies of windows on a pallet than you can some PCs but those items are making the same trip (generally). Warehouse, truck, freighter, truck, warehouse, and then some deviance but getting into the country there is no magic fairy that gets one companies products into the country that the other companies can't and don't use. I think some are confusing strategic planning with logistical capabilities.

It's not about the trucks. It's not about transportation. It's about a relationship with the retailers. If you put a bunch of 360s on a truck and they get to that remote city the store owner who didn't order them will probably send them right back. Sony has had business dealings for a long time in a lot of places where no one from MS has ever stepped foot. The same guy who gets these stores to stock Sony TVs, DVD players, mp3 players and computers is also talking to the stores about selling Playstations. Xbox does not have that kind of presence and reach. That's the big difference. That's the "magic fairy".

 

[NavNucST3]

It's not about the trucks. It's not about transportation. It's about a relationship with the retailers. If you put a bunch of 360s on a truck and they get to that remote city the store owner who didn't order them will probably send them right back. Sony has had business dealings for a long time in a lot of places where no one from MS has ever stepped foot. The same guy who gets these stores to stock Sony TVs, DVD players, mp3 players and computers is also talking to the stores about selling Playstations. Xbox does not have that kind of presence and reach. That's the big difference. That's the "magic fairy".

So now the argument is being made that MSFT is so inept that they are putting these 360 on a boat, shipping to a warehouse, putting them on a truck and delivering hardware to stores that have NOT ordered them...gtfohwtbs.

EDIT: Would you please enlighten us as to where these business dealings are described such that you are so confident in that belief and the "...places where no one from MS has ever stepped foot."?

 

[Toaddio]

EDIT: Would you please enlighten us as to where these business dealings are described such that you are so confident in that belief and the "...places where no one from MS has ever stepped foot."?

High margin, boxed software is in a different league than low margin electronics. It's not necessarily easy to convince retailers to take a loss on hardware and hope to make up the difference on game software.

 

[Rangers]

I've been around Asia and you can buy PSPs and PS3s in all major cities, whether by imports from Japan or from a local distributor through an official channel. There is almost no presence from Xbox in these regions despite the fact that they sell boxed software and pre-installed software in these countries. The same rings true for eastern Europe and a lot of Latin America. Between these regions Sony probably ship 1.5m units a year that Microsoft can't reach.

This is an irrelevant anecdote. Do you have any proof or sales numbers?

Also consoles are illegal in China. Though there is some gray market N64 type pirate stuff, there isn't PS360 stuff. So there goes the largest market in asia by far...

 

[Rangers]

As well, while there's certainly growth potential for those countries the fact is that other than Japan, NA, Europe and Austrailia/NZ, software revenue for all major publishers is less than 10% and in the majority of cases less than 5% for all of those other countries combined the last time I checked (Software publisher financial reports).

SB

Yup, just check EA's recent filing. Revenue for everything besides Europe/North America (NA was larger than Europe as usual) was 5%. North America was 50% and Europe was 45%.

 

[whome0]

Like anyone care about Finland's chart list, but here is it anyway.

Based on over 200 game shops sales reports, exact numbers are not published.
All platforms: PC, Xbox360, Wii, PS2, PS3, Nintendo DS, Sony PSP
Week 1 - 2 / 2011, All platforms
NOW  PREV    
1        1         Call Of Duty Black Ops (Activision-Blizzard) DS PC PS3 Wii Xbox360
2        2         Gran Turismo 5 (Sony) PS3
3        4         NHL 11 (Electronic Arts) PS3 Xbox360
4        5         The Sims 3 (Electronic Arts) DS PC PS3 Wii Xbox360
5        3         SingStar SuomiHitit (Sony) PS2 PS3
6        RE      Red Dead Redemption (Take 2) PS3 Xbox360
7        8         FIFA 11 (Electronic Arts) DS PC PS2 PS3 PSP Wii Xbox360
8        6         Sly Trilogy HD Collection (Sony) PS3
9       10        Sports Champions (Sony) PS3
10      RE      World of Warcraft: Cataclysm (Activision-Blizzard) PC

Week 1 - 2 / 2011, PS3
NOW  PREV    
1       1         Gran Turismo 5 (Sony)
2       5         NHL 11 (Electronic Arts)
3       2         Call Of Duty Black Ops (Activision-Blizzard)
4       3         Sly Trilogy HD Collection (Sony)
5       6         Sports Champions (Sony)
6       RE      Red Dead Redemption (Take 2)
7       4         SingStar SuomiHitit (Sony)
8       10       FIFA 11 (Electronic Arts)
9       9         Need For Speed Hot Pursuit (Electronic Arts)
10      7         Assasin's Creed Brotherhood (Ubisoft)

Week 1 - 2 / 2011, PSP
NOW  PREV    
1       1         LittleBIGPlanet (Sony)
2       2         Gran Turismo (Sony)
3       3         MotorStorm: Arctic Edge (Sony)
4       4         ModNation Racers (Sony)
5       5         LEGO Harry Potter: Years 1-4 (Warner Bros.)
6       10       Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep (Square Enix)
7       8         SOCOM Fire Team Bravo 3 (Sony)
8       9         Jak & Daxter:Kadonnut maailma (Sony)
9       6         FIFA 11 (Electronic Arts)
10     7         God Of War: Ghost Of Sparta (Sony)

Week 1 - 2 / 2011, WII
NOW  PREV    
1       3         Mario Kart (Nintendo)
2       4         NHL Slapshot (Electronic Arts)
3       1         Wii Fit Plus (Nintendo)
4       8         Wii Sports Resort (Nintendo)
5       6         Donkey Kong Country Returns (Nintendo)
6       2         Super Mario Galaxy 2 (Nintendo)
7       5         New Super Mario Bros. Wii (Nintendo)
8       7         Super Mario All-Stars (Nintendo)
9      10        Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games (Sega)
10     RE      Wii Party (Nintendo)
	  	  	 
Week 1 - 2 / 2011, XBOX360 	 
NOW  PREV    
1       1        Call Of Duty Black Ops (Activision-Blizzard)
2       2        NHL 11 (Electronic Arts)
3       3        Kinect Sports (Microsoft)
4       5        Zumba Fitness (505 Games)
5       8        Red Dead Redemption (Take 2)
6       NEW  Your Shape: Fitness Evolved (Ubisoft)
7 	4         Assasin's Creed Brotherhood (Ubisoft)
8 	6         Halo Reach (Microsoft)
9 	9         Dance Central (Microsoft)
10   10         FIFA 11 (Electronic Arts)

Edit Most up-to-date list just in.

Week 3 - 4 / 2011, All platforms
1. LittleBIGPlanet 2 (PS3)
2. Call Of Duty Black Ops (DS, pc, PS3, Wii, Xbox 360)
3. Dead Space 2 (Pc, PS3, Xbox 360)
4. Sports Champions (PS3)
5. NHL 11 (PS3, Xbox 360)
6. Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)
7. Mass Effect 2 (Pc, PS3, Xbox 360)
8. The Sims 3 (DS, pc, PS3, Wii, Xbox 360)
9. SingStar SuomiHitit (PS2, PS3)
10. Red Dead Redemption (PS3, Xbox 360)

Week 3 - 4 / 2011, PlayStation 3
1. LittleBIGPlanet 2
2. Sports Champions
3. Gran Turismo 5
4. Call Of Duty Black Ops
5. Mass Effect 2
6. Dead Space 2
7. NHL 11
8. Sly Trilogy HD Collection
9. Red Dead Redemption
10. SingStar SuomiHitit

Week 3 - 4 / 2011, Xbox 360
1. Dead Space 2
2. Call Of Duty Black Ops
3. Kinect Sports
4. NHL 11
5. Red Dead Redemption
6. Zumba Fitness
7. Halo Reach
8. Assasin's Creed Brotherhood
9. Fallout: New Vegas
10. Dance Central

Week 3 - 4 / 2011, Nintendo Wii
1. Wii Party
2. Mario Kart Wii
3. New Super Mario Bros. Wii
4. Wii Fit Plus
5. Donkey Kong Country Returns
6. Mario Sports Mix
7. Super Mario Galaxy 2
8. NHL Slapshot
9.Super Mario All-Stars
10. Wii Sports Resort

Week 3 - 4 / 2011, Pc
1. The Sims 3
2. World of Warcraft: Cataclysm
3. Call Of Duty Black Ops
4. Battlefield Bad Company 2
5. Dead Space 2
6. Counter-Strike: Source
7. Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty
8. Fallout: New Vegas
9. World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King
10. DC Universe Online

Week 3 - 4 / 2011, PlayStation 2
1. SingStar SuomiHitit
2. Toy Story 3
3. LEGO Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures
4. LEGO Star Wars 2 The Original Trilogy
5. Singstar SuomiPop
6.LEGO Batman
7. SingStar SuomiRock
8. Sly Raccoon 2: Konnakopla
9. Sly Raccoon 1
10. Gran Turismo 4

Week 3 - 4 / 2011, PSP
1. LittleBIGPlanet
2. Gran Turismo
3. Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep
4. LEGO Harry Potter: Years 1-4
5. MotorStorm: Arctic Edge
6. ModNation Racers
7. SOCOM Fire Team Bravo 3
8. Jak & Daxter:Kadonnut maailma
9. God Of War: Ghost Of Sparta
10. FIFA 11

Week 3 - 4 / 2011, Nintendo DS
1. New Super Mario Bros.
2. The Sims 3
3. Super Mario 64 DS
4. Mario Kart DS
5. Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games
6. Pokémon Soul Silver
7. Zhu Zhu Pets Featuring The Wild Bunch
8. Nintendogs Chihuahua
9. Pokémon Heart Gold
10. Nintendogs Labradori

 

[Brad Grenz]

So now the argument is being made that MSFT is so inept that they are putting these 360 on a boat, shipping to a warehouse, putting them on a truck and delivering hardware to stores that have NOT ordered them...gtfohwtbs.

You are the one asking why they didn't just put 360s on the same trucks the PS3s were on. The answer is because no one ordered them. It's your hypothetical, not mine.

 

[zed]

Yup, just check EA's recent filing. Revenue for everything besides Europe/North America (NA was larger than Europe as usual) was 5%. North America was 50% and Europe was 45%.

And what about capcom + square etc, you know those companies that actually know how to make a profit