Well I don't see Premium reaching much before 40GB PS3. In fact, PS3 has further leeway in terms of costcutting (Blu-ray, Cell), and Sony being the hardware company is better/faster at it.
*Spin off* Bill of Materials and Cost/Price Reductions of Current Consoles
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Well I don't see Premium reaching much before 40GB PS3. In fact, PS3 has further leeway in terms of costcutting (Blu-ray, Cell), and Sony being the hardware company is better/faster at it.
The further Sony cuts prices the more Blu-ray and Cell will become bigger limiting factors.
Sony was hitting on all cylinders last generation when it came to cost reduction, but this generation Sony's motor has essentially blown a gasket.
Sony was the second (behind Intel) to get to 90nm, starting mass product of 90nm in late 03. Now its 2008 and 65nm Cells are just showing up a few months ago and Sony is now dependent on IBM and Toshiba for 45nm and beyond. Sony and Toshiba once stated that together they would have 45nm by the end of 2005.
With the BluRay drives fiasco and Sony dependency on outside firms for chip production south of 65nm, Sony has already shown it not the same Sony from the PS2 days.
NovemberMike
Regular
How much of the PS3's price drop has been cost reduction and how much has been Sony bleeding money? From their recent losses, I am guessing that it has been more fo the second (in which case they are in no position to make any more agressive cuts).
Why would you think the PS3 has further leeway than the 360 Premium? The PS3 has been pricecut by 33% already and is producing losses in 2008 (according to Sony). The 360 has only pricecut by 16% and was making money in 2007 (according to MS). It would seem to me that the 360 is ripe for a significant pricecut, and that Sony is out of options until the next die shrink.
Where did they confirm them? I don't recall them.
I agree with this. Just look at the last financials in the gaming divisions. Sony lost 841m, MS, made 140m (or something, dont remember exactly). That was BEFORE the PS3 cut to 399!
Now Sony says 40GB PS3 actually loses less than previous models. I'm not sure I believe them but even so, they sold so many more due to it being 4Q+Price cut, I expect they're going to report very big losses again.
MS on the other hand has been playing it extremely close to the vest with regards to price cuts however. I think they need one for Europe much more than USA, but I dont think it's really feasible to cut only in one territory.
Why not, we´ve seen that before, the price of the PS3 was cut in the US before it was cut in Europe.
The 360 has been dirt cheap in Japan compared to other territories right from the start, these companies have no problem differentiating the price on different markets if that was your concern.
Concerning the losses Sony make on the 40 GB model. Here in Europe I am pretty sure Sony prefered selling the 40 GB model at €400 than the 60 GB at €500 (with US 80 GB-motherboard), because the 60 GB model sold like crazy because of BC even at much higher price points in November, Sony brought in a few extra batches of 60 GB units in November that sold out just like that, but then nothing more, they just kept the 40 GB model. games-industry.biz reported that HMV would have liked more of the 60 GB for "up-selling". I believe a new PS3 model with larger HDD and BC will appear when they can build it at less loss, that motherboard may very well appear in the US 80 model at the same time.
I think Sony kept the 80 GB model (with the attractive BC function) in US because it was more needed there because of competetive reasons i.e. it´s a tougher market for Sony, Europe is probably helping subsidizing those units.
A lot of people seem to believe that the PS3 40 GB cost about $100 more to make than the 360 premium. If someone could specify the cost differences for the significant components to support that, it would be really interesting.
inefficient
Veteran
Well the BD drive alone might make up that difference.
Sony only just announced the first Sub $200 BD-ROM drive for the PC. This is just a 2x drive like the PS3. Not a BD-R/RW drive.
That's pretty pricey for just a ROM drive. Even if the margins on that product were at an unheard of level for PC components and they were making $100 back for every drive sold. That still means the drive cost them nearly $100.
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=22216
The BD drive really does seem to be the biggest cost impact to the PS3. Luckly, recently, everything with regard to BD seems to be working out for Sony. It was clearly a big gamble. But history might just end up going to show that it was one of Sony's smartest moves ever.
Yeah, the BDD may be the most significant part, but what I want to know is what makes up the price difference compared to a DVD-ROM unit.
How much more is
The price of the PC BD-ROM-unit with bundled software does not really give us any information of the actual cost, that price still contains margins aimed at early adopters and may not relate much to the BOM and manufacturing costs.
How much more is
- the mechanics, probably a few dollars more since the drive seems reliable and quiet.
- the control logic, maybe a few dollars
- the blu-ray diode, the price was expected to be about $8 last June. So the difference is < $8, the price have also most likely come down quite a bit since then.
- manufacturing, should be a small difference as the volumes should have passed 10 million units by now, special tools should be paid by now.
The price of the PC BD-ROM-unit with bundled software does not really give us any information of the actual cost, that price still contains margins aimed at early adopters and may not relate much to the BOM and manufacturing costs.
inefficient
Veteran
Well on top of that the PS3 CPU and GPU are simply bigger transistor wise than the 360's. And the PS3 is still 90nm according to Sony. While at least the CPU in the 360 is already 65nm.
Could it be there is some sort of decoder built in?
I know if I wanted to watch a blu-ray movie on my computer it would be less than enjoyable.
Yes, the dice of the CPUs and GPUs are slightly larger in the PS3 granted they are on the same process which they seem to be right now, but Cell may have better yields than Xenon due to the redundant SPU and Xenos contains the daughter chip on a non-standard EDRAM process. Those things may balance the cost of those specific components for the two consoles.
The price of 512 Mbit GDDR3 and 512 Mbit XDR RAM would be really interesting to know.
I wrote Mbit, not MB.
In the 360 there is 8 x 512 Mbit GDDR3
In the PS3 there is 4 x 512 Mbit GDDR3 + 4 x 512 Mbit XDR
There was a big initial problem with diodes, but moving past that (I don't have a problem with an $8 estimate) to the present, I think that people underestimate the cost of the optical pickup unit in the drive. Not claiming to know the exact cost of course, but this and the assembly I think open up quite a spread for the present time vs a DVD drive. A cost that will obviously come down going forward, but I think 'a few dollars' is off the mark in scope.
Random thoughts:
How about the cost of the chassis? By that I refer to the PS3's seemingly complex design, just by looking at it. The Xbox 360 on the other hand, is pretty much...well... a box.
And the built-in wireless of the PS3 must cost something significant too, perhaps not on the same scale as the processors, but it is the difference between including one and not including one.
How about the cost of the chassis? By that I refer to the PS3's seemingly complex design, just by looking at it. The Xbox 360 on the other hand, is pretty much...well... a box.
And the built-in wireless of the PS3 must cost something significant too, perhaps not on the same scale as the processors, but it is the difference between including one and not including one.
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