YPbPr + next gen consoles
- Thread starter Mendel
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scooby_dooby said:oli2 said:Completely false ...scooby_dooby said:
Very often, the people saying that are those who don't have/use numeric connection. Those (like me on PC to PTAE-700 projector connection) who have the luck to be able to use it are often seeing huge improvements.
If you want to make sure, simply make the test yourself.
I said "especially for CRT TV's"
What does that have to do with CRT TV sets? Have you tried the test on a CRT set yourself?
Everyone I've talked to who has a CRT set said they noticed no difference at all when switching to Digital connections.
I've noticed a difference (I have a Samsung 55" HTDV). I used to have a Component Cable connected to my High Def cable top box....but wanted my DVD player to be connected to the component port (for Progressive Scan). The problem was that I had my Two rows of Component input ports taken up by my Xbox and Cable top box.
To solve the problem, I got a DVI cable from my workplace
and connected my Cable box to my TV through a DVI connection. Now when I did this I noticed that the picture with the DVI input was MUCH sharper then the Component cables BUT the component cables gave the pictures richer color (also felt much warmer). So thats the difference I saw betweeen Component and DVI connections...DVI= Sharper Image
Component= Richer Colors, More Warm Colors, Not as sharp as DVI
NOTE: I have a Rear Projection TV and i've heard that you get a more noticeable sharper image with Monitors or TVs that are DIGITAL (LCD and I believe Plasmas).
BlueTsunami said:
Agreed : on numeric connection, i get a way more sharper image than on VGA.
About the colors, it all depends of your device and its default setup.
You generally have a vast panel of parameters to deal with (temperature color, color by color contrast, lum., you can change the value on gammas, etc.). It is a bit of work but the results are often very satisfying.
At first, i had to work on my projector because the colors were precisely too warm (and red was to high) ...
orfanotna said:
It's really not up to them, it's more a choice of the movie studios who want their material not to be coiped easily.
Any HDDVD or BlueRay player will have to conform. So any player will not work unless you have either HDMI or DVI with HDCP.
They're not "stupid not to allow blueray playback over component". They just have to.
Besides, how long will it take to hack that...
Look at what happened to Macromedia or the regional coding for existing DVD players. "It's really not up to them, it's more a choice of the movie studios who want their material not to be coiped easily."
OK, fair enough. I still don't understand their (movie studios') reasoning. If these new formats will be 1080p natively (and they better be), think about how crappy the copies over component will be. It's like hooking up a hi-res flat panel over VGA - at high resolutions quality suffers a lot more because of Digital-Analog-Digital conversions. And in case of Blu-ray copying, you'll also have to compress the result to fit it on a disk. In short, I don't think copying Blu-Ray over component will be much different than copying a VHS tape. (Of course unlike VHS, you could then copy that copy without loss of quality forever..)
P.S. Doesn't Sony own a bunch of movie studios?
OK, fair enough. I still don't understand their (movie studios') reasoning. If these new formats will be 1080p natively (and they better be), think about how crappy the copies over component will be. It's like hooking up a hi-res flat panel over VGA - at high resolutions quality suffers a lot more because of Digital-Analog-Digital conversions. And in case of Blu-ray copying, you'll also have to compress the result to fit it on a disk. In short, I don't think copying Blu-Ray over component will be much different than copying a VHS tape. (Of course unlike VHS, you could then copy that copy without loss of quality forever..)
P.S. Doesn't Sony own a bunch of movie studios?
orfanotna said:
Actually, copying an HD movie to Blueray will give you some pretty good quality. Movie studios have the same reasoning they have for putting copy protection on current DVDs or even music CDs. Same principles.
orfanotna said:
Sony do own a lot of HD material, all of Sony/Columbia/Tristar/MGM and some other studios, thousands of movies ready to be released in HD formats, but it doesn't change the fact that they are movie studios who will want to safeguard their material through copy protection.
All BlueRay and HDDVD players (and that includes PS3) WILL have HDCP, and Sony can't - and don't want to - do anything about it, cause in the end it's one of their ways to keep their bit of revenue/profit.
No one in their right minds - especially Sony - will release something that can be copied over easily, without hacks.
Having said that, i expect this to be hacked pretty quickly, like everything else.
Do you think there is a possibility that Sony would *sacrifice* some of it's motion picture content (by sacrifice I mean release some of their movies to Blu-Ray without HDCP) for the sake of furthering the Blu Ray format?
Eventually, if the format catches on that way, people will expect everything to be released without HDCP, so Sony will potentially lose out on alot of movie revenue, but they will make royalties off of every Blu Ray disc sold.
Is it worth the trade-off from a financial standpoint?
But then I don't see other studios backing the format because there won't be royalties in it for them, and they will want HDCP.
The studios make the same money from DVD or Blu Ray/HDVD, so selling BR/HDVD is going to be difficult, because there will be no quality gain for most people (who are equipped with non DVI/HDMI HDCP compliant HDTVs which will downres the BR/HDVD content to DVD res.)
I have no idea how these HD disc formats will fare in the marketplace.
It could be a case where the studio's paranioa hurts them in the end. Movie studios are making record revenues with DVD sales, and people can copy those via component output (amongst other ways), so why not just release the HD discs the same way? There will always be piracy, but now they are potentially hurting their bottom line by stifling the adoption of a new money maker for themselves.
DVD seems adequate for most people with sets up to ~55-65", most of them can't even tell the difference between DVD and HD at that size on a decent widescreen set. Most people might just end up saying F*@% it, in the end, and staying with DVD until the studios loosen up.
Eventually, if the format catches on that way, people will expect everything to be released without HDCP, so Sony will potentially lose out on alot of movie revenue, but they will make royalties off of every Blu Ray disc sold.
Is it worth the trade-off from a financial standpoint?
But then I don't see other studios backing the format because there won't be royalties in it for them, and they will want HDCP.
The studios make the same money from DVD or Blu Ray/HDVD, so selling BR/HDVD is going to be difficult, because there will be no quality gain for most people (who are equipped with non DVI/HDMI HDCP compliant HDTVs which will downres the BR/HDVD content to DVD res.)
I have no idea how these HD disc formats will fare in the marketplace.
It could be a case where the studio's paranioa hurts them in the end. Movie studios are making record revenues with DVD sales, and people can copy those via component output (amongst other ways), so why not just release the HD discs the same way? There will always be piracy, but now they are potentially hurting their bottom line by stifling the adoption of a new money maker for themselves.
DVD seems adequate for most people with sets up to ~55-65", most of them can't even tell the difference between DVD and HD at that size on a decent widescreen set. Most people might just end up saying F*@% it, in the end, and staying with DVD until the studios loosen up.
Sean*O said:
Why would they? I heard that if you don't have HDCP, the HD movie will just play in SD resolutions though i'm not sure if it's true or not. Still, much better than a NO SIGNAL message from your TV huh...
Well obviously if they - and everyone else - pursue their copy protection business with current DVDs and CDs, it means that they think it's financially better for them.
Heh that's the big question. I dont see HD discs taking off anytime soon anywhere but Asia. It will take some time for the US and AGES for the European Union.
Compared to the people who just buy or rent DVDs without copying them, the ones making copies are a very very small percentage.
Actually in the short term, they're safe. DVD sales are still strong, even if it's very easy today to copy DVDs. Obviously the big corporations will rant about how piracy hinders their profits, much like evil music corps nag about illegal downloads.
Mmm the difference between a normal DVD and HD material is very evident, especially on screens that size (if the screen is HD obviously).
It will take time, but in the end, like we've put up with the DVD mess (multiple different formats, copy protection, region coding, player compatibilities issues with some discs), we'll just have to put up with whatever we get.
EDIT: Also, the possibility of a HDMI-component adapter is quite strong, it might be expensive, but in the end if it allows people to watch HD movies on their non-HDMI display, it will still be MUCH cheaper than buying a whole new HDTV with HDMI inputs. In fact it might even be cheaper to buy a component-only HDTV and the adapter, instead of the still-quite-expensive HDTVs with HDMI inputs. Anyway i'm just rambling now
scooby_dooby said:
Can't say if there is anything related to CRT sets but those are quickly falling by the wayside anyhow. Cheap LCDs and Plasmas are taking over at a decent pace.
If you own an LCD monitor, you can easily do a rough test and see the results for yourself wrt analog vs. digital connection.
Sean*O said:
It's not a complete lack of playback. If your equipment does not recognize HDCP flags then you will simply see the movie in 480P resolution.
jvd said:
Uh, well sorta yes and no.
First you have to ask yourself what kind of DVI? Single-link, dual-link, DVI-I, DVI-A, etc. etc.
But then even dual-link lacks some of HDMI specs especially wrt to colorspace I believe.
But in the end, I doubt you'll notice the difference.
Ty said:
Hah so i was right!!
Ty said:london-boy said:Hah so i was right!!
Yes, but we (at least I) told you this before.
Hey it's not easy to remember everything you guys say on here
Especially for an airhead like moi
DuckThor Evil
Legend
london-boy said:
I don't think HDCP works that way, you can't just release a movie that doesn't use it, HDCP is in the hardware, if your dvd-player has hdcp and your display doesn't the picture is not shown in dvi in any resolution... However if your tv has it your dvd-player doesn't have to support it.
Now if some chinese manufacturer makes a Bluray player with dvi-input, but doesn't include hdcp in it, you can watch movies in full resolution, eventhouhg your display don't have HDCP.
Dr Evil said:
COUGH
COUGHTy said:
HDCP must be supported all the way obviously. From the player to the TV. Unless i'm missing something.
DuckThor Evil
Legend
london-boy said:Dr Evil said:
COUGHCOUGHTy said:
HDCP must be supported all the way obviously. From the player to the TV. Unless i'm missing something.
I don't think you can use the hdcp-dvi imput for any resolution if your tv doesnt' support hdcp, ofcourse you can use other imputs like component to get 480p, but not from dvi. hdcp dislplays can decrypt hdcp, but they don't recuire it.