XBOX360 backwards compatible with XBOX1 confirmed!

xbdestroya said:
I don't know... I need more than that personally.

well, i mean what other purpose would an xbox 1 zone have? fable isnt even a live game, and fable is shown under the "games" tab.
 
Why is it in the same section as the gamer tag? Also the picture seems to be his Avatar.......that screen feels misleading to me. I wouldn't put it across Microsoft to do something like that...with all the "leaks" that have happened recently.
 
@Ruined:

I honestly have NO idea. They did mention at some point, I forget when, that Live would be compatible with XBox 1 games, or something... I didn't pay close attention to it at the time.

I mean... maybe Microsoft has made all their top-tier games available via LIVE?
 
xbdestroya said:
@Ruined:

I honestly have NO idea. They did mention at some point, I forget when, that Live would be compatible with XBox 1 games, or something... I didn't pay close attention to it at the time.

I mean... maybe Microsoft has made all their top-tier games available via LIVE?

Well, another thing to notice, that while that player appears in "Xbox 1 Zone", it has the old XBOX1 logo on the right, and it also is in the Games tab not the Xbox Live tab.
 
Ruined said:
Well, another thing to notice, that while that player appears in "Xbox 1 Zone", it has the old XBOX1 logo on the right, and it also is in the Games tab not the Xbox Live tab.

Lends credence to my theory - but still, it's just a theory. Who knows... not me! BUT, if anything like what I'm saying is there, or if the system is backwards compatible, they will say during E3. Something like that can't be left to sit beyond that. By the end of E3, the backwards compatability question will be answered, one way or the other.
 
It also makes sense from a business standpoint:

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/08fce29a-c334-11d9-abf1-00000e2511c8.html

Nvidia will stop providing MS with XBOX1 GPUs on Aug 1st, 2005. Which, unlike playstation1, essentially puts an end to xbox1 production near the end of this year, as MS had a contract with NV for the chips themselves, not the chip design.

without xbox gpus, there is no xbox1. granted ms likely has a large stock of the gpus, but their ending of the shipments puts a limit on production

with no xbox1, sales of xbox1 titles will be diminished to both new xbox360 owners and older xbox1 owners whose consoles broke/stolen/etc
 
aye the x360 should have more than enough power to emulate the xbox . It has a tricore 3.2 ghz cpu that i would hope can emulate the 700mhz celron and it has a 500 mhz ati gpu which is what 4 generations ahead of the xbox gpu .
 
Oh it has the power alright, but I don't think that would be the difficulty in emulating. It would come from the software side of things.
 
jvd said:

Different chip architectures, graphics tech proprietary to NVidia, and maybe some other things. I don't know. ;) I'm just saying, the difficulty would be from the software side of things. For emulation, it almost always is these days.
 
well it depends on how much is really proprietary . I would think only dst and nvidias shader tech would not be supported .
 
"The Xenon GPU is a custom 500+ MHz graphics processor from ATI. The shader core has 48 Arithmetic Logic Units (ALUs) that can execute 64 simultaneous threads on groups of 64 vertices or pixels. ALUs are automatically and dynamically assigned to either pixel or vertex processing depending on load. The ALUs can each perform one vector and one scalar operation per clock cycle, for a total of 96 shader operations per clock cycle. Texture loads can be done in parallel to ALU operations. At peak performance, the GPU can issue 48 billion shader operations per second.

The GPU has a peak pixel fill rate of 4+ gigapixels/sec (16 gigasamples/sec with 4× antialiasing). The peak vertex rate is 500+ million vertices/sec. The peak triangle rate is 500+ million triangles/sec. The interesting point about all of these values is that they’re not just theoretical—they are attainable with nontrivial shaders.

Xenon is designed for high-definition output. Included directly on the GPU die is 10+ MB of fast embedded dynamic RAM (EDRAM). A 720p frame buffer fits very nicely here. Larger frame buffers are also possible because of hardware-accelerated partitioning and predicated rendering that has little cost other than additional vertex processing. Along with the extremely fast EDRAM, the GPU also includes hardware instructions for alpha blending, z-test, and antialiasing.

The Xenon graphics architecture is a unique design that implements a superset of Direct3D version 9.0. It includes a number of important extensions, including additional compressed texture formats and a flexible tessellation engine. Xenon not only supports high-level shading language (HLSL) model 3.0 for vertex and pixel shaders but also includes advanced shader features well beyond model 3.0. For instance, shaders use 32-bit IEEE floating-point math throughout. Vertex shaders can fetch from textures, and pixel shaders can fetch from vertex streams. Xenon shaders also have the unique ability to directly access main memory, allowing techniques that have never before been possible.

As with Xbox, Xenon will support precompiled push buffers (“command buffers†in Xenon terminology), but to a much greater extent than the Xbox console does. The Xbox team is exposing and documenting the command buffer format so that games are able to harness the GPU much more effectively."

http://battleforums.com/archive/index.php/t-80931.html>

If it was backwards compatible why didn't Microsoft say so? That would be a HUGE selling point for many who have hundreds of dollars tied up in Xbox 1 games. did anyone hear that on MYV? Most seem to think the presentation was lame...

EDIT:

"In addition to an extremely powerful GPU, Xenon also includes a very high-quality resize filter. This filter allows consumers to choose whatever output mode they desire. Xenon automatically scales the game’s output buffer to the consumer-chosen resolution.

Memory and Bandwidth
Xenon has 256+ MB of unified memory, equally accessible to both the GPU and CPU. The main memory controller resides on the GPU (the same as in the Xbox architecture). It has 22.4+ GB/sec aggregate bandwidth to RAM, distributed between reads and writes. Aggregate means that the bandwidth may be used for all reading or all writing or any combination of the two. Translated into game performance, the GPU can consume a 512×512×32-bpp texture in only 47 microseconds.

The front side bus (FSB) bandwidth peak is 10.8 GB/sec for reads and 10.8 GB/sec for writes, over 20 times faster than for Xbox. Note that the 22.4+ GB/sec main memory bandwidth is shared between the CPU and GPU. If, for example, the CPU is using 2 GB/sec for reading and 1 GB/sec for writing on the FSB, the GPU has 19.4+ GB/sec available for accessing RAM.

Eight pixels (where each pixel is color plus z = 8 bytes) can be sent to the EDRAM every GPU clock cycle, for an EDRAM write bandwidth of 32 GB/sec. Each of these pixels can be expanded through multisampling to 4 samples, for up to 32 multisampled pixel samples per clock cycle. With alpha blending, z-test, and z-write enabled, this is equivalent to having 256 GB/sec of effective bandwidth! The important thing is that frame buffer bandwidth will never slow down the Xenon GPU.

Audio
The Xenon CPU is a superb processor for audio, particularly with its massive mathematical horsepower and vector register set. The Xenon CPU can process and encode hundreds of audio channels with sophisticated per-voice and global effects, all while using a fraction of the power of a single CPU core.

The Xenon system south bridge also contains a key hardware component for audio—XMA decompression. XMA is the native Xenon compressed audio format, based on the WMA Pro architecture. XMA provides sound quality higher than ADPCM at even better compression ratios, typically 6:1–12:1. The south bridge contains a full silicon implementation of the XMA decompression algorithm, including support for multichannel XMA sources. XMA is processed by the south bridge into standard PCM format in RAM. All other sound processing (sample rate conversion, filtering, effects, mixing, and multispeaker encoding) happens on the Xenon CPU.

The lowest-level Xenon audio software layer is XAudio, a new API designed for optimal digital signal processing. The Xbox Audio Creation Tool (XACT) API from Xbox is also supported, along with new features such as conditional events, improved parameter control, and a more flexible 3D audio model.
Input/Output

As with Xbox, Xenon is designed to be a multiplayer console. It has built-in networking support including an Ethernet 10/100-BaseT port. It supports up to four controllers. From an audio/video standpoint, Xenon will support all the same formats as Xbox, including multiple high-definition formats up through 1080i, plus VGA output.

In order to provide greater flexibility and support a wider variety of attached devices, the Xenon console includes standard USB 2.0 ports. This feature allows the console to potentially host storage devices, cameras, microphones, and other devices.

Storage
The Xenon console is designed around a larger world view of storage than Xbox was. Games will have access to a variety of storage devices, including connected devices (memory units, USB storage) and remote devices (networked PCs, Xbox Liveâ„¢). At the time of this writing, the decision to include a built-in hard disk in every Xenon console has not been made. If a hard disk is not included in every console, it will certainly be available as an integrated add-on component.

Xenon supports up to two attached memory units (MUs). MUs are connected directly to the console, not to controllers as on Xbox. The initial size of the MUs is 64 MB, although larger MUs may be available in the future. MU throughput is expected to be around 8 MB/sec for reads and 1 MB/sec for writes.

The Xenon game disc drive is a 12× DVD, with an expected outer edge throughput of 16+ MB/sec. Latency is expected to be in the neighborhood of 100 ms. The media format will be similar to Xbox, with approximately 6 GB of usable space on the disk. As on Xbox, media will be stored on a single side in two 3 GB layers.

Industrial Design
The Xenon industrial design process is well under way, but the final look of the box has not been determined. The Xenon console will be smaller than the Xbox console.
The standard Xenon controller will have a look and feel similar to the Xbox controller. The primary changes are the removal of the Black and White buttons and the addition of shoulder buttons. The triggers, thumbsticks, D-pad, and primary buttons are essentially unchanged. The controller will support vibration.

Xenon Development Kit
The Xenon development environment follows the same model as for Xbox. Game development occurs on the PC. The resulting executable image is loaded by the Xenon development kit and remotely debugged on the PC. MS® Visual Studio® version 7.1 continues as the development environment for Xenon.

The Xenon compiler is based on a custom PowerPC back end and the latest MS® Visual C++® front end. The back end uses technology developed at MS for Windows NT on PowerPC. The Xenon software group includes a dedicated team of compiler engineers updating the compiler to support Xenon-specific CPU extensions. This team is also heavily focused on optimization work.
The Xenon development kit will include accurate DVD emulation technology to allow developers to very precisely gauge the effects of the retail console disc drive.

Miscellaneous Xenon Hardware Notes

Some additional notes:
•Xenon is a big-endian system. Both the CPU and GPU process memory in big-endian mode. Games ported from little-endian systems such as the Xbox or PC need to account for this in their game asset pipeline.

•Tapping into the power of the CPU is a daunting task. Writing multithreaded game engines is not trivial. Xenon system software is designed to take advantage of this processing power wherever possible. The Xbox Advanced Technology Group (ATG) is also exploring a variety of techniques for offloading graphics work to the CPU.

•People often ask if Xenon can be backward compatible with Xbox. Although the architecture of the two consoles is quite different, Xenon has the processing power to emulate Xbox. Whether Xenon will be backward compatible involves a variety of factors, not the least of which is the massive development and testing effort required to allow Xbox games run on Xenon.
 
Joe DeFuria said:
Team XBOX is reporting that backwards compatibility is actually one of the things still up in the air at the moment.

Ouch. Backwards compatibility is what allowed the PS2 to absolutely dominate this generation. I would assume that PS3 will be backwards compatible. That would be a serious blow to the 360 if it didn't have it.

Hell even the Revolution is supposed to be backwards compatible with the GC, and Nintendo has a notoriously poor record of supporting backwards compatibility unless it's gameboy related.
 
all sites state that BC is still being wirked on. personally, I am beginning to get doubt that it will be BC since they haven't announced it by now. and the fact that they are very cautious of any negative news at the moment, they will say "we are working on it" till the console is out.
 
jvd said:
aye the x360 should have more than enough power to emulate the xbox . It has a tricore 3.2 ghz cpu that i would hope can emulate the 700mhz celron and it has a 500 mhz ati gpu which is what 4 generations ahead of the xbox gpu .

So what? The Xbox had all sorts of little features/bugs here and there which developers abused/took advantage of. The only way to 'emulate' it perfectly would be to squeeze an Xbox1 inside the Xbox360 - like Sony did with the PS1 inside the PS2.
 
For M$ and Xbox gamers sake I hope the Xbox360 is backwards compatible. If its not that means that Sony would have the upper hand in BC and media. With the 360 using DVDs instead of next gen media and no BC, and no new Xboxs(def. since M$ is now turning a profit with every Xbox sold now) M$ would be digging themselves a hole so deep that Nintendo and Sony will be laughing all the way to E3.

I can't wait Sony will wipe the floor with M$. I don't hate the Xbox I'm just trying to point out the facts.
________
Parkwood
 
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Anybody remember the class of x86 hardware that was needed to decently run various console emulators of fabled memory? 3D0, Jaguar, was there a Saturn one? Is there a DC emulator?
 
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