Xbox Series S [XBSS] [Release November 10 2020]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by BRiT, Sep 8, 2020.

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  1. mawver

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    Now that I noticed that XSX has one controller per chip, it should be 5 in XSS

    EfokrjYVoAA1KS1.png
     
  2. goonergaz

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    Initially I was buying one, but I am a little deterred by this talk of BC of XBO games - so assumption being the lower textures. There’s also the few disks I have that will no longer be useful.

    I don’t know, but I was also in the PS5 DE camp - which then means I lose my ability to play UHD disks.

    XSX being 200 more is a pain.
     
  3. function

    function None functional
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    I believe those things labelled "GDDR6" are the 'PHYs' for the GDDR6 chips They're responsible afaik for allowing the memory controllers to physically connect with the memory chips.

    Each one is 32-bit, with ten for a total of a 320-bit bus in XSX. Each of its five 64-bit memory controllers will be linked to two specific PHYs, and through them to two specific memory chips. So 5 controllers for 10 chips.

    In XSS, with a 128-bit bus there will be two 64-bit memory controllers, and 4 of these PHYs. However, because there are 5 memory chips, with two operating in clamshell mode, one of its 4 PHYs will be connected to two GDDR6 chips across its particular 32-bit section of the bus.

    The joy of clamshell mode is that you can double up on the number of chips connected to a particular part of the bus. The downside is that even though you now have two chips connected, you don't get an increase in bandwidth. Typically, as larger memory chips become available and cheaper than two smaller chips, you'll see the clamshell setup disappear in favour of a single chip. Because the bus hasn't changed you don't lose any performance, but you might very well reduce costs!
     
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  4. see colon

    see colon All Ham & No Potatos
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    As a guy who sells video games for a living, yes. People don't know the difference, can't tell you the difference, and sometimes know the difference but can't see the difference. I've seen guys brag about how their PS4 slim runs every game at 60 FPS and name a bunch of games that are locked at 30. I've seen guys buy 144hz PC monitors and show up for a LAN party and after checking his settings, has been running at 60hz for the past 8 months, but they thought it was so much smoother than their last monitor. I've explained resolution to mothers who should at least have a middle school understanding of geometry and surface area, only for their eyes to glaze over and ask... "So is 4k better than HD"? People don't know, and can't tell the difference unless shown the difference side by side. And even then, sometimes they can't tell.
    How are you playing UHD discs now? Couldn't you just keep what you have and add the new console?
     
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  5. ThePissartist

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    If you're suggesting that you can't tell the difference between 4k and 1/4 resolution, then yes, the Series S is for you.

    You think I'm overly technical? I'm not. I still own a 1080p TV in my living room. I'm also a floating console buyer, I went into this new gen expecting for Microsoft to nail it - they haven't. It feels like they want to marginalise gamers like me (i.e., non-hardcore). I have zero intention for Game Pass. It's too much money for the amount of time I spend on games.

    I like the hardware of the Xbox Series X, but I don't like them breaking down what a new console generation is. I'm not the guy that plays old gen games on the new gen machine. When I bought the 360 on day one, the crossgen games like "Gun" were completely off my radar. So yeah, until Microsoft give a reason for buying the Series X - I won't.

    I'm buying my first 4k TV and a true next gen console this Christmas. There's really only one option that gives me "next gen" games.

    I'll consider a Series X in the future when they move past the Xbox One. The Series S offends what I expect from a next gen machine from every angle that I'm able to view it from (Microsoft could have made a 4tflop machine 7 years ago if they really wanted to - i would have bought it too). A "next gen" 4tflop machine in 2020 is just a poor show.
     
    #265 ThePissartist, Sep 13, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
  6. mawver

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    But wouldn't clamshell shared access be a problem?

    Could the two separate virtual machines (one for title another for the OS) work like this?

    I’m assuming it’s the same as XSX for compatibility


    54555.jpg
     
  7. function

    function None functional
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    I don't see it being a particular problem. The two virtual machines could be put in any memory area that MS want. As the OS in background mode uses very little by way of resources they've opted to use the slower area.

    The reason for the slower area is that there are two different quantities of ram attached to each 32-bit section of the bus. On XSX this is due to the combination of 1 GB and 2GB chips, on XSS it's because one memory chip is paired another in clamshell mode (basically like having different sizes of chip like in the XSX).

    So the "GPU optimal" memory uses evenly sized chunks of memory attached to the entire bus, while the "slower" memory uses only the parts of the bus that the larger chips (or clamshell on XSS) are connected to.
     
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  8. Johnny Awesome

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    Not if you only have $299 and a 1080p set. Which is at least 500+ million people.

    The XSS wasn't designed for you. Don't buy it.

    It's getting tiring listening to all the complainers wondering why MS isn't delivering 3070 power specs in a $299 box.

    The most powerful next gen machine is the XSX. Get that if lack of power is a problem for you in a next gen machine. That's what I'm doing, but I'm ok that kids in South America & Eastern Europe are going to be able to play Gears 5 @60 fps on their existing sets for an affordable price on an XSS. I don't see a problem with that.
     
  9. Silent_Buddha

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    Yes, and while I don't think you're generalizing to everyone, to be clear this isn't something that applies to all people or even all conditions. Also, this is a general post (not directed at yours) just using yours as a jumping off point. :)

    4k vs. 1080p is significantly easier to see at PC viewing distances than at typical living room (3+ meter in the US) distances. Higher framerate impacts to gaming aren't something you'll notice until you've had it and then had to go back (so someone that's never gamed at 144 Hz may not noticed it isn't 144 Hz and just think they are gaming at 144 Hz due to placebo effect). And even then there are some people that honestly can't tell the difference.

    It's enough to say that some people will notice and some people won't notice. Just like many people couldn't tell the difference between a game running on PS4 or XBO at the start of the generation even in games where it was 1080p on the PS4 and 720p on the XBO. OTOH, there were also people that could spot the difference.

    Same goes for 30 Hz. LOTS of people immediately felt the sluggishness of controls in Bloodborne and HZD because they predominantly gamed at 60 or greater Hz on the PC. But most console players felt controls in those games was responsive because...well, most of the games they play are stuck at 30 Hz. :p

    Some people likely wouldn't be able to tell if they were gaming on a XBSS, XBSX or PS5 unless someone told them. Some people will notice the resolution differences.

    But when playing a game, you are far more likely to notice a framerate discrepancy while playing then you will a resolution discrepancy. Because framerate not only affects visual IQ but also affects the input/output feedback loop (how responsive a game feels and how easy it is to track and hit a moving object).

    In that respect it is far more important for the XBSS to match the performance of a game when compared to XBSX than it is for it to match the visuals of a game running on XBSX. Hence, the CPU only has a minor adjustment in clocks (it'll have the largest impact on framerates) compared to the GPU.

    Regards,
    SB
     
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  10. Arnold Beckenbauer

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  11. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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    There are other improvements to quality that you will get over the OG XB1. Games that use dynamic resolutions will see improvements. You will also get improved texture filtering & AUTO HDR. There is a hardware scaler that will upscale to 4K. So no, it won't look as bad as your XB1. Plus there is the SSD & the quick resume features that make it worth upgrading.

    Tommy McClain
     
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  12. PSman1700

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    Yes, but none console is going to even come close to the 3070 anyway, it has a theoretical performance of 20TF with some very advanced and fast ray tracing features, then we shouldn't forget DLSS and other nice things on that gpu.

    For the 299 dollar XSS you can't ever complain imo.... As a pc gamer i know you can't build it yourself atleast, not in that form factor and for that price. I think people are concerned about scaling issues, but those have never been a problem on pc, or rarely atleast. Games will just start to look better on XSX/PS5/PC.
     
  13. neckthrough

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    Of course you can. Let's see here... we'll start with a Ryzen 3700X for $299......... uhh......... I mean, I almost made it -- all that was left was a case, PSU, motherboard, GPU, RAM and SSD. Oh, and a controller of course.
     
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  14. PSman1700

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    Yes it's impossible, for the casual gamer the XSS is a very good choice. You could have it besides a PS5 or something.
     
  15. see colon

    see colon All Ham & No Potatos
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    Yeah, I didn't mean everybody, but there is a fair portion of the gaming population that isn't able to tell the difference between framerate and resolution or sometimes even both at the same time. Gaming is a big industry with a broad customer base and most people in the world are not technical people. That is much of the base appeal of consoles (outside of exclusive content).
     
  16. Strange

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    Begs the question why though since most third party titles are most likely available on both.
     
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  17. Arnold Beckenbauer

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    The Orange Box (360/BC) has received an XOX enhanced update (like Gears of War 2-3, Fallout 3 etc.), its resolution is 720p, it would be a little bit disappointing, if OB and other games won't receive some kind of XBSS enhanced mode with native 1080p or higher.
     
  18. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
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    hm... yeah, I suppose they ought to be able to do 2x2 SSAA of the 360 enchanted titles if not the full 3x3 ala Scorpio. That would certainly fit with the 1440p target. ;) :runaway:

    ogXbox titles got 2x2 SSAA on XO with 4x4 SSAA on Scorpio. They should be able to slide in 3x3 SSAA on there (1920x1440 - there's that number again... :runaway:)


    :V
     
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  19. Jay

    Jay
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    Yea, I'm not simply expecting it to run as XO.
    I'm expecting them to roll 2 new profiles, XSS and XSX.

    Not sure other benefits you can bring to XSX, but their pretty good when it comes to thinking up BC things.
     
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  20. Allandor

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    Is there a reason why MS doesn't just forces 2xSSAA on (unenhanced) xbox one titles even on xbox one x? This should be possible for all we know.
     
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