Xbox One Slim

[Metal_Spirit]

Sheesh! First people are complaining about flops not being equal, nVidia not the same as AMD. Now electrons aren't equal, DC versus AC. What next?!

Let me explain... Lets take the Nvidia FX 5900 por instance... It flopped really bad. But when compared to the x2900XT it was a lesser flop.

So now take this to Tflops... and you understand. It's just a matter of scale (10^12)! AMD needs to flop higher to equal Nvidia

 

[Rikimaru]

Let me explain... Lets take the Nvidia FX 5900 por instance... It flopped really bad. But when compared to the x2900XT it was a lesser flop.

I remember Nvidia FX 5xxx being an ultra flop. 5900 Ultra being 2x less performance than Radeon 9800 Pro in DX9. Plus awful texture filtering.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

DF has a couple of articles. It has a faster GPU for one thing.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...as-a-gpu-overclock-and-we-have-benchmarked-it

GPU Clock 914MHz vs 853MHz
Compute Performance 1.4TF vs 1.31TF
ESRAM Bandwidth 219GB/s vs 204GB/s

 

[AlNom]

Xbox One S Interview: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-inside-xbox-one-s-tech-interview

The SoC in the Xbox One S is designed in the 16nm Fin FET process, which results in a die that is 240mm2

Power Consumption & Noise http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-microsoft-xbox-one-s-review

So about 30% power saving during the two game tests, 40% for BD.

 

[McHuj]

I didn't expect them to increase the performance. Interesting.

Also, I am surprised that the size and power reduction wasn't bigger.

Still stuck with 16 RAM chips.

 

[AlNom]

Also, I am surprised that the size and power reduction wasn't bigger.

hm.... I wonder. Size reduction is ~33%

Polaris 10 vs Tonga is 232mm^2 vs 365mm^2, which is about 36%. Of course, there are bits different like 4 more CUs on P10 and apparently a deactivated 128-bit bus on Tonga, and GloFo vs TSMC, but it seems close enough to be reasonably comparable.

AMD gonna AMD?

:V
---

Not too sure what to make of the power consumption.

Similarly, I wonder if the 914MHz was just the ceiling for whatever voltage they had @ 853MHz on the new node.

 

[Rangers]

Hmm, so now it's really a much more compelling buy because of the performance boost. In other words Xbox non slim is not something you want to buy despite all the extreme deals currently.

Shame for them they couldn't have enabled that other clock boost at launch. It creeps ever closer to PS4 now, especially since it already had a 9% CPU clock advantage, and also gains ESRAM bandwidth too.

Welcome to iterative consoles I guess. It's gonna be a mess...basically welcome to consoles= PC!

The whole HDR thing still bugs me because of the apparent lack of any TV's with game modes compatible with HDR. This is gonna mean a lot of input lag on current HDR sets I guess.

Question for me is if the performance boost is enough to make S a must have. I suspect at some point I'll pick one up, hopefyully defraying most of the cost with selling or trading my current box. I was looking and it seems like used consoles are selling for a lot more on craigslist than ebay (assuming they're actually selling, I guess).

It's a shame the default 299 S model didn't increase to 1GB, that would have made it a real slam dunk. 500GB really just is not enough and is a constant problem on my current box, though hardly a huge one. I only have like 5-6 games installed and it always sits at nearly maxed hard drive. At some point I've been planning to pick up a 1TB external hybrid, but that's yet another $100, not too mention that external simply isn't the cleanest solution from a tidiness standpoint. I realize companies are not in the business of being generous, but I wish MS had been here.

 

[Scott_Arm]

My guess is the performance boost is negligible. You'd probably want a slim just because it's low power and smaller and supports 4k and HDR. If you have no interest in anything of those things, I'd take a deal on the Xbox One and save the $.

 

[Rangers]

It's negligible but, still likely easily more compelling to consumers/me than anything else about the console...

Before it was like meh, dont have HDR TV, dont have a 4K TV so dont need/care for UHD Blu Ray (haven't watched a movie on disc in years and probably never will again anyway) , now I'm seriously figuring I may get a S. Basically all because of 6% performance boost, added to the other minor positive factors involved.

 

[Newguy]

16nm not 14nm, interesting choice. Perf/w advantage?

 

[Scott_Arm]

No way I'd pay to get an extra 2 fps in uncapped games.

 

[AlNom]

16nm not 14nm, interesting choice. Perf/w advantage?

Hard to say.

We know they had a 20nm design finished a while ago, which presumably was at TSMC as a natural path. It might have just been convenient (or less costly than switching to another fab) to migrate to 16nmFF, especially if they had wafer agreements in place.

One of the later answers is a bit funny, leaving them open to fabbing elsewhere in the future (if that even happens).

for the Xbox One S consoles shipping this year the SoC is fabricated at TSMC.

 

[HMBR]

very interesting that they are using TSMC 16nm, I was expecting GloFo 14nm like Polaris; I wonder if AMD will be using TSMC 16nm for some of their PC GPUs anytime soon?

also the higher clock GPU is interesting, but it feels like a wasted opportunity not to have a higher CPU clock to help with the xbox 360 emulation, but perhaps that would be more complicated to achieve?

oh well, it's probably to not leave the original one behind I guess, while they can justify the GPU clock for something exclusive for the S (HDR) I guess.

 

[MrFox]

No way I'd pay to get an extra 2 fps in uncapped games.

And scorpio is coming out next year with 6TF, so that expense become a bit short lived for an invisible upgrade.

This is like upgrading your PC from an old GTX780 to another GTX780 from another brand because it's base clock is OC 7% and the fan is a little more quiet.

 

[Rikimaru]

Shame for them they couldn't have enabled that other clock boost at launch. It creeps ever closer to PS4 now, especially since it already had a 9% CPU clock advantage, and also gains ESRAM bandwidth too.

PS4 level is 1200Mhz but still limited by ESRAM size.

And scorpio is coming out next year with 6TF, so that expense become a bit short lived for an invisible upgrade.

This is like upgrading your PC from an old GTX780 to another GTX780 from another brand because it's base clock is OC 7% and the fan is a little more quiet.

One S is a louder one. And Scorpio will be more expensive. Than Neo even.

 

[iroboto]

PS4 level is 1200Mhz but still limited by ESRAM size.

One S is a louder one. And Scorpio will be more expensive. Than Neo even.

Debate able if it's actually esram size that is the limiting factor for XBO especially concerning resolution. Bandwidth at 1200Mhz is north of 250Gb/s.

I more inclined to think that the bottleneck will likely be on DDR3, still stuck at 67 and contended, as that is the only part that was not upgraded.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dobwal]

Hmm, so now it's really a much more compelling buy because of the performance boost. In other words Xbox non slim is not something you want to buy despite all the extreme deals currently.

Shame for them they couldn't have enabled that other clock boost at launch. It creeps ever closer to PS4 now, especially since it already had a 9% CPU clock advantage, and also gains ESRAM bandwidth too.

Welcome to iterative consoles I guess. It's gonna be a mess...basically welcome to consoles= PC!

The whole HDR thing still bugs me because of the apparent lack of any TV's with game modes compatible with HDR. This is gonna mean a lot of input lag on current HDR sets I guess.

Question for me is if the performance boost is enough to make S a must have. I suspect at some point I'll pick one up, hopefyully defraying most of the cost with selling or trading my current box. I was looking and it seems like used consoles are selling for a lot more on craigslist than ebay (assuming they're actually selling, I guess).

It's a shame the default 299 S model didn't increase to 1GB, that would have made it a real slam dunk. 500GB really just is not enough and is a constant problem on my current box, though hardly a huge one. I only have like 5-6 games installed and it always sits at nearly maxed hard drive. At some point I've been planning to pick up a 1TB external hybrid, but that's yet another $100, not too mention that external simply isn't the cleanest solution from a tidiness standpoint. I realize companies are not in the business of being generous, but I wish MS had been here.

Why does HDR bug you? It's not like current HDR performance on some displays is an inherent issue that will inevitably affect all future TVs going forward. It's future proofing. And unless it has had an appreciable impact on some other facets of Xbox one gaming i.e price, performance etc., I don't see how it's a problem.

Plus outside of aesthetic I don't see the need to drive up standard disc size other than maintaining a low BOM. A significant portion of the userbase will never fully utilize 500 GB. And an external drive offer more utility than an internal drive. My internal drive is essentially empty outside of the Xbox OS.

With my external drive and an internet connection, I can basically turn any Xbox one into my Xbox one. So when I buy a S or Scorpio, I am going to plug in the external, log in and then be done with it. U going to have to spend time downloading a day one patch on the S as it is. Who really wants to spend time redownloading their library from the cloud?

Plus when my Xbox one inevitably dies, my locally stored game library won't die with it. Or when my external HDD dies my Xbox one won't go with it. My internal drive isn't spending much effort on moving game data around which hopefully will extend the life of the box. My plan is to get another external drive and use the current one as a back up.

 

[turkey]

very interesting that they are using TSMC 16nm, I was expecting GloFo 14nm like Polaris; I wonder if AMD will be using TSMC 16nm for some of their PC GPUs anytime soon?

also the higher clock GPU is interesting, but it feels like a wasted opportunity not to have a higher CPU clock to help with the xbox 360 emulation, but perhaps that would be more complicated to achieve?

oh well, it's probably to not leave the original one behind I guess, while they can justify the GPU clock for something exclusive for the S (HDR) I guess.

The question I would have is they say the same gpu so that's sea island not Polaris which may explain the different fab.
Then if that is the case; is then is Neo Polaris or still Sea island to ensure compatibility such as this, as if Polaris was ready and easily compatibile you would assume Microsoft would take the easy/cheap route?

 

[liolio]

Welcome to iterative consoles I guess. It's gonna be a mess...basically welcome to consoles= PC!

Well not really as no matter MSFT efforts on the OS side and what seems to be another not that low level of abstraction graphical API MSFT is still bound to the IPs of the original XB1.
The power consumption is still fairly high during media playback. Threre is no proof that the refinements from Jaguar to Puma core made it to the system, it is the same on the GPU side: same old IPs.

Ultimately we end up with a still fairly large chip, money has been spent on porting old and outdated IPs when newer ones would have allowed to make a system with similar performance for less money.

It is somehow the worst of both world, that being said the OneS is still an interesting product with significant advantages on the Vanilla PS4.

 

[Rangers]

No way I'd pay to get an extra 2 fps in uncapped games.

It's up to 9 FPS just in DF's limited testing right? Of course, 6% is never going to buy you miracles...

Combine it with all the other niceties, though.None of which appeal to me that much. Just wish it was black.

Some judicious selling/trading of old Xbox one you should be able to get it for $100 or something. The Scorpio thing is probably a bigger reason to wait.

As usual Microsoft isn't shy about buying favor. I notice literally almost every two bit game/tech youtuber has a S unboxing today, which means MS sent them all freebies.

Also, in one unboxing I saw that the PS4 is still substantially smaller. I thought they were similar size now. Crazy.