Xbox One Slim

This is curious though, if AMD went with the trouble to port Jaguars to 14nm, why wouldn't they use those themselves on any product?

My guess would be that they are completely focused on Zen and having it be useable through the entire product stack. Introducing Jaguar to OEMs at 14nm might mess with the messaging they are trying to get across. It may be good short term, but perhaps they don't view it as a viable long term play with the potential to disrupt their long term planning.

Just a guess. And like I said, until someone officially comments on it or someone does a teardown of the XBO-S, we won't know if it's still 28 nm or 14/16 nm. If it's 28 nm, what'd they do so that the smaller size and more congested interior of the XBO-S didn't interfere with the low acoustics of the XBO? Again, things we won't know until we can see a tear down.

I'm pretty interested in seeing what they did with the overall interior design of the XBO-S.

Regards,
SB
 
It seems msft is not uncomfortable with the idea of multiple SKUs, I suspect that under the hood what costumers will get is the same UWP, DirectX 12 games as PC with three fixed settings.

More likely is that at least for first party titles, we'll see things more like Forza Motorsport 6: Apex in the UWP store. Realtime dynamic adjustment of settings to maintain a consistent performance level regardless of the hardware involved. It works really well. If you have a Windows 10 machine or access to one, you should give it a try. I imagine that many of Microsoft's titles going forwards will take advantage of this so that they'll have an immediate boost when Scorpio comes out while still looking good on XBO.

Regards,
SB
 
My guess would be that they are completely focused on Zen and having it be usable through the entire product stack. Introducing Jaguar to OEMs at 14nm might mess with the messaging they are trying to get across. It may be good short term, but perhaps they don't view it as a viable long term play with the potential to disrupt their long term planning.

Just a guess. And like I said, until someone officially comments on it or someone does a teardown of the XBO-S, we won't know if it's still 28 nm or 14/16 nm. If it's 28 nm, what'd they do so that the smaller size and more congested interior of the XBO-S didn't interfere with the low acoustics of the XBO? Again, things we won't know until we can see a tear down.

I'm pretty interested in seeing what they did with the overall interior design of the XBO-S.

Regards,
SB
May be AMD is holding on its announcement, in my view they need those cores mighty Intel decide to stick to its Atom CPU walking away from some previous claim on the matter.
I would still find weird for them to have the product ready before Zen (the OneS launch in august, right,), the same applies to the GPU to a lesser extend. My guts bend toward 28nm so my reasoning, even though I am surprised that MSFT went through the effort of simply updating Durango but lithography having following the path it followed. We are going to know soon enough but it is interesting to see what a durango 2.0 could look like based on late AMD latest hardware.
based on some comments it seems that the chips has some headroom (on the gpu side made available to HDR games) and its position as a potent media hub is also a hint a proper power management (finally). that is something that AMD newer IPS can deliver even at 28nm.
The same comment about the headroom (on the GPU side) wrt to resolution scaling have me to think of AMD late color compression feature, it could allow to make more of the 32MB, bandwidth is not the constrain here but gain in storage are possibly welcome.
Those comment about the smoother gameplay have also me thinking of slight turbo mechanism on the CPU side.
So it could be possible that Durango 2.0 is durango built upon Puma+ and the GCN version used in Tonga and Fiji. Proper power management along with architectural improvements could explain a lower power consumption as well as the smoother performances and the "headroom" available to some titles.
Among other things up upscaling quality could be a bit better, encoding (so both recording and streaming) should be more power efficient (may be better quality).

Msft did not make a good at selling this product, it looks like a nice step up, good price, but they let geeks with lots of questions.
 
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As far as I know, none if we're talking about consumer monitors. And be aware of cheap Samsung/Sony HDR compatible TVs. Not all affordable HDR TVs are equal. That KU6300 model you've mentioned has too narrow color gamut (76% DCI/P3) to be considered Wide Color Gamut, which is an important companion to HDR. (You want your HDR games to have saturated colors) It does have 400 cd/m2 of brightness which is the pretty much the minimum requirement for HDR. You want at least 400 cd/m2 because for 10 bit HDR contents, white point is situated at 400 cd/m2 whereas its at 100 cd/m2 on SDR contents. One different thing about HDR gamma (PQ EOTF) is its luminance is fixed, unlike the SDR gamma. (which is relative, that's why until now, you could increase or decrease your display's brightness to your liking)

As mentioned already, the new Vizio P is much better than any of Samsung and Sony's edge-lit offering because it uses 124 local dimming zones to control HDR highlights. Even the super expensive Samsung KS9500 only has 24 zones in comparison, and this becomes even more problematic for HDR contents because HDR's dynamic range (0.01~1500 cd/m2) is much wider than SDR which only has to resolve 0.1~100 cd/m2. So, if you're trying to control 0.01~1000 cd/m2 range with only 24 zones, luminance difference between adjacent zones will be made painfully obvious. (For highlights, you're basically going to see a huge lump of square. I've seen in on Samsung KS9500 and it wasn't pretty at all) Never buy an edge-lit TV if you reallly care about quality HDR.

Only negative thing about the Vizio is that...it doesn't support HDR10 yet, only Dolby Vision. Since all announced console/PC HDR games are HDR10, this may throw a wrench into your purchasing decision...
 
Damned the lack of interest for this system is pretty terrible lol, everybody and his pal is thinking about the PS4 Neo and the Scorpio project. Now there is an interesting point that was raised on that topic, the Scorpio should run XB one game and it should run them better. I suspect that will include games prior games that have not been desing the benefit from the system capability. That is a characteristic the Scorpio and the One S shares. One thing that both system does not share is a common architecture, whatever Scorpio is (SOC, discrete CPU and GPU, NUMA or UMA) one thing is clear it won't rely on eSRAM.
I see this a stealthy confirmation that MSFT can map Durango reasonably conveniently to significantly different hardware. Now in the context of the One S... it got me looping the odds of not advertized, even denied, yet complete rework on the Xbox one hardware.
From the outside the One S is loser to the PS4 than to Xbox One, I wonder if it is also the case inside.
The price of the One S is sexy and that before any rebate and with the inclusion of the BRD 4K, for sure moving away from the eSRAM could have helped lower the price. If yield are good they could also decide to enable more CUs so the GPU, along with turbo boost and power management the GPU is likely to do the Xbox 1.0 within a significantly lower TDP (I'm still betting on a new 28nm SOC).
We should know as soon as someone opens the box and the memory type is revealed, a big redesign means that GDDR5 will be find in place of DDR3 (along with a 128 bit bus).
There is another argument for a significant rework @28nm versus shrinking IPs that are no longer relevant. They are going to "map" Durango onto Scorpio for the purpose of BC, either way create a Durango virtual machine. If they have that machine why spend lot of money redesigning IPs when they could use IPs that should be available soon on a process they might want to target further down the path of price reduction? It make no sense to me nor for AMD or for MSFT.
One may say but it make no sense to redesign a@28nm chip either, thing is AMD may have "own" MSFT a shrink/redesign @20nm and the money for that design may have already accounted for.
 
to be fair both the xbox one and ps4 are boring as hell at this point. They were underpowered at launch and now look dreadful compared to the pc. AMD is ready to release a 5.5tflop card for $200 bucks in a week. That's what over 4 times the power. You can build a 5.5 tflop system for about $700-$800 which will run all the multiplats and now all the xbox one exclusives many times better than the xbox one or the ps4.
 
to be fair both the xbox one and ps4 are boring as hell at this point.
I disagree the 1S is new hardware it caught my interest . There is nothing new about the PS4 that is true.
They were underpowered at launch and now look dreadful compared to the pc.
They were not under powered at launch, it is just one of those unsubstantiated claim. They both came with lots and lots of memory to the point that it is unprecedented for consoles to be in the same ballpark as PC. The power consumption for both system is reasonable, the PS360 were not a good example to follow. Both system came with great GPU architecture, I agree that the Xbox one is a little short for a system aiming @1080. On the CPU side they both have the best money can buy. That is not a grim picture, the games so far have run great, especially on the PS4, pretty much the same as on PC three year in that generation: that is a lot better than last gen, those system were launch not far ahead of a new node and significant shift in GPU architecture, they had a little amount of memory, their CPU were pain in the ass.
AMD is ready to release a 5.5tflop card for $200 bucks in a week. That's what over 4 times the power. You can build a 5.5 tflop system for about $700-$800 which will run all the multiplats and now all the xbox one exclusives many times better than the xbox one or the ps4.
28nm lasted for long, 20nm was cancelled, now the pace of progress has resumed, ultimately whereas a step was missed the jumped between two nodes has not been much longer than usual (if at all). That is expected, but you can also read review that make clear that for example both the 1070 and 1080 are not necessary to the average gamer running a single 1080p screen. As for the AMD GPU, it is indeed cheap, it will drive display 1080p easily, and more, but it is not a full computer @299€ the Xbox 1 is a pretty good deal too, till AMD is back in the game (CPU side included) it is night impossible to build cheap 1080p gaming boxes that cheap.
After three years and 2 nodes down the road even though one was cancelled I actually of the opinion that this generation of hardware does great, may be the best ever thanks to diminishing returns.
 
to be fair both the xbox one and ps4 are boring as hell at this point. They were underpowered at launch and now look dreadful compared to the pc.

I also disagree but then I don't buy hardware for the excitement of the hardware, I buy hardware to play games that I will enjoy it's clear that both PS4 and XBO are capable of tremendous things. GTA V is great on the 8th Gen consoles, and the fact that consoles are now equipped to deal with modding, is also great. If you're looking for examples of consoles providing really good visuals, you need look no further than Quantum Break and Uncharted 4.

What is about the PC that you feel makes the consoles boring?
 
I also disagree but then I don't buy hardware for the excitement of the hardware, I buy hardware to play games that I will enjoy it's clear that both PS4 and XBO are capable of tremendous things. GTA V is great on the 8th Gen consoles, and the fact that consoles are now equipped to deal with modding, is also great. If you're looking for examples of consoles providing really good visuals, you need look no further than Quantum Break and Uncharted 4.

What is about the PC that you feel makes the consoles boring?
Neon LED Lights on the graphic cards!
Case windows to see the internals.




Yeah, that must be it. ;)
 
There are some unboxings out there, what I´m most interested in a proper comparison between XO and the S, be it playing games and also as a media box, a strong point of the One was it´s almost silent operation.

Power consumption and a tear down, just too see the new SOC if it´s indeed a 14nm chip
 
Well that was certainly a disappointing announcement. I would really like to know what decision matrix was on the S. Phil said that they had an up specced version and passed on it. Given what we know, which is obviously very little, they made 2 horrific decisions - not upspeccing and not lowering the price substantially. I guess the price was driven by 4K bluray, which is unfathomable to me. Why keep the price high in order to include tech that was outdated a decade ago?
At least offer a digital only, flash-based box for $199.

Without upspeccing MS has further cemented their inferiority to PS when NEO launches. Plus, for fall 2017 the Scorpio is very disappointing - No HBM and a lackluster GPU. Had they upspecced the S, then a premium Scorpio at $499 wouldn't have been a problem.
 
Well that was certainly a disappointing announcement. I would really like to know what decision matrix was on the S. Phil said that they had an up specced version and passed on it. Given what we know, which is obviously very little, they made 2 horrific decisions - not upspeccing and not lowering the price substantially. I guess the price was driven by 4K bluray, which is unfathomable to me. Why keep the price high in order to include tech that was outdated a decade ago?
At least offer a digital only, flash-based box for $199.

Without upspeccing MS has further cemented their inferiority to PS when NEO launches. Plus, for fall 2017 the Scorpio is very disappointing - No HBM and a lackluster GPU. Had they upspecced the S, then a premium Scorpio at $499 wouldn't have been a problem.
Digital only isn't really an option because some big backwards countries still make you pay based on data use or make you buy "data packs", instead of being civilized countries which just sell you a internet connection with no data caps or other such nonsense
 
Well that was certainly a disappointing announcement. I would really like to know what decision matrix was on the S. Phil said that they had an up specced version and passed on it. Given what we know, which is obviously very little, they made 2 horrific decisions - not upspeccing and not lowering the price substantially. I guess the price was driven by 4K bluray, which is unfathomable to me. Why keep the price high in order to include tech that was outdated a decade ago?
At least offer a digital only, flash-based box for $199.

Without upspeccing MS has further cemented their inferiority to PS when NEO launches. Plus, for fall 2017 the Scorpio is very disappointing - No HBM and a lackluster GPU. Had they upspecced the S, then a premium Scorpio at $499 wouldn't have been a problem.


I think the decision it´s clear, redesign the box to be more gaming friendly (smaller, sleeker, psu integrated) and with the new media capabilities make it more desirable. the other reason it´s to cheap the BOM.

Yes the new pricing it´s a bit odd, I hoped for a cheaper price of entry, but they have to clear inventory of the old model. I expect around Black friday and Holidays discounts, with bundles, etc.

If it´s a 14nm soc, they have some room there.

About upspeccing the OneS, Why?? That is what Scorpio´s all about.
Let´s be clear here, when P.Spencer talked about he wasn´t fond of incremental updates, it wasn´t for the sake of it.
They know that the One its really underpowered, and a minor update just to be on par with PS4, soon to be the Neo, was not going to cut it. Too much work for little benefit.
 
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Damned the lack of interest for this system is pretty terrible lol, everybody and his pal is thinking about the PS4 Neo and the Scorpio project.
It's not that bad. http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/2016-06/videogames#2
While it is trailing behind a bundled COD PS4, it is $50 more.

When the 1TB and 500GB slims come out in *correction December* I expect to see the sales to increase over the 2TB that is on pre-order today.
 
Well that was certainly a disappointing announcement. I would really like to know what decision matrix was on the S. Phil said that they had an up specced version and passed on it. Given what we know, which is obviously very little, they made 2 horrific decisions - not upspeccing and not lowering the price substantially. I guess the price was driven by 4K bluray, which is unfathomable to me.

Are you proposing they should have added a third performance box? One, New S and Scorpio.
 
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