XBox One, PS4, DRM, and You

[3dilettante]

there is no reason to fear the digital model.

This is an assertion that can be arrived at by not reading any objections but the ones you choose to respond to.

There may be no reason to fear some idealized version of digital-only content delivery that you may dream of having, but there are multiple modern examples of the digital model and accompanying legal framework we have right now that many people find objectionable.

The requirement for continuous confirmation of permission to use purchased content is not the only way to get a digital-only platform, and it is far more expansive in what it can do and coerce than is necessary if all it concerned was digital downloads.

 

[MrFox]

Let me think. One system has a single point of failure, which will make inaccessible every single games of every single customers in the world.

The other system is a million times redundant and untethered. Millions of discs and millions of consoles, I can insure them and repurchase them used any time I want for decades to come.

For the record, I don't like physical media either, I'd prefer everything was like MP3s with zero encryption, and consoles with unlocked hypervisors. But so far the bluray copy protection is the only reasonable choice compared to the alternatives.

There's no reasonable copy protection scheme for DD that isn't tied to a single-point-of-failure, lack of ownership, and planned obsolescence. They can try their new "consumer education" marketing campaign, but I think most gamers saw it for what it is : omission, obfuscation and misdirection. No wonder people are confused about it. It's a mess because a marketing team can no longer mislead the public today, social media are very reactive about the stupid answers by Don Mattrick or Phil Spencer, or the evasive answers by Major Nelson (I'll give him that, his answer aren't stupid, just evasive). They can't escape criticism by refusing to answer direct questions, they opened a can of worms.

 

[Tap In]

let me think... one system is going to evolve and happen eventually whether we like I or not and one system is going to be phased out in all but the niche market.

 

[MrFox]

let me think... one system is going to evolve and happen eventually whether we like I or not and one system is going to be phased out in all but the niche market.

Please compare whether we like it or not... for two different groups:

www.ps4nodrm.com
www.xboxonenodrm.com

I was in the "not on my watch" group, while you were on the "oh well, we have no choice" group. I guess it's true what they say, the future is what we make of it.

 

[Xalion]

And so how will platform holders like ms and Sony benefit when ultimately you don't need an ms or Sony device to play your games?
Isn't the goal to make your audience dependant on your platform more and more?

A better goal is to make sure all platforms available are tied to you somehow. Technology will eventually make any platform irrelevant. If your entire model is trying to tie someone to your platform, then technology will make you irrelevant too.

In my opinion, a better option is to make sure the new platforms coming out are you. In other words, have a stake in phones, a stake in consoles, a stake in televisions, etc. When technology makes one of your platforms irrelevant, make sure you have a part of the new one as well. If you can present a unified experience across those platforms, then you have something really special.

I can see both Sony and Microsoft are trying for that, but neither are executing well right now.

 

[Tap In]

Please compare whether we like it or not... for two different groups:

www.ps4nodrm.com
www.xboxonenodrm.com

I was in the "not on my watch" group, while you were on the "oh well, we have no choice" group. I guess it's true what they say, the future is what we make of it.

I wouldn't call it a "we have no choice" group, I would call it the "technological progress" group

 

[Xalion]

there is no reason to fear the digital model.

I personally don't fear the digital model. I'm actually eagerly awaiting it. I just think the Microsoft vision for the digital model is horrible.

The Microsoft vision is that the consumer loses all rights - and becomes little more than a subscriber to their products. What I want to do is always subject to the approval of someone else. I personally don't want that. I don't see it as progress. Instead, I want to see a digital model where the person who buys something still retains ownership - whether that be of a physical medium or a digital copy.

With physical media, it is easier to establish that boundry. With digital, it becomes more difficult. I understand that. However, just because it hasn't been done well yet doesn't mean it can't be done well. I guess my point is don't take the criticism of Microsoft's model to mean people are "afraid" of any digital model. I think a lot of us just dislike the way Microsoft chose to implement it.

 

[MrFox]

I wouldn't call it a "we have no choice" group, I would call it the "technological progress" group

It has nothing to do with technology

 

[Tap In]

It has nothing to do with technology

well technical progress then :smile:... remote digital access by license will, in the future, allow me to play on many devices not just by owning an antique game machine. Also coming this generation are things like digital DL rentals (coming from MS) and subscription game models (also coming)

 

[AzBat]

Both systems will allow you to spend money so you can play a game. The End.

Tommy McClain

 

[3dilettante]

Well, it's only been established for certain that they both allow you to spend money.

 

[brasnial]

I think this argument only exists because there's a disk drive in the Xbox one .
Without attual phsicial copies of games Microsoft's policies don't seem that bad .
Look at it like this digital model verses phsicial model .

Sharing games check .....both models allow this infact the digital version is easier as all you have to do is nonimate a friend and he can use your game collection .......and as your non losing your copy of the game in the process you can still use the game your sharing .

Gifting a game to a friend check .......you can still do this .......no putting it in the post or jumping into your car to take it over to him .

Part exchanging or selling your games check ......you can still do this amitedly in a more restricked way but hay no jumping in your car paying for parking as you have to phsically lung your game down the road to sell it or part exchange it .

You see if you look at it objectively its just not that bad in fact its a more convenient because you not tried to shop opening times ...parking restrictions ......bus running times .....you name it .

I really do think most of this ....oh I hate this my rights are being trod on is more to do will platform locality than scientific rational thinking .

One look at most gaming forums elsewhere not here more than reinforces this in my humble opinion

 

[dagamer]

The only thing more reliable than death and taxes is gamers raging online.

 

[brasnial]

The only thing more reliable than death and taxes is gamers raging online.

I would add gamers ragging about Microsoft before the DRM and 24 hour check in its was paying for Xbox live to play on line .
But hay you can't moan about that now for obvious reasons so now its DRM and that 24 hour check in

 

[Sigfried1977]

I look at it like this if i where running a game publishing or game development company .

Why would you do that? So you care more about the financial fate of a bunch shareholders than your rights as a consumer? This is a really weird phenomenon in the gamer community.

Maybe we should rename the topic to Xbox One, PS4, DRM and Corporate Apologists.
I don't give a damn about MS's or Sony's or anyone else's corporate interests. I'm a consumer, not a shareholder.

 

[Sigfried1977]

The only thing more reliable than death and taxes is gamers raging online.

Not nearly as reliable as their spinelessness.

 

[brasnial]

Why would you do that? So you care more about the financial fate of a bunch shareholders than your rights as a consumer? This is a really weird phenomenon in the gamer community.

Maybe we should rename the topic to Xbox One, PS4, DRM and Corporate Apologists.
I don't give a damn about MS's or Sony's or anyone else's corporate interests. I'm a consumer, not a shareholder.

Can I ask you a question
have you ever run your own business .......have you ever been responsible for paying your staff ........have you ever had to lay anyone off who has a family to support .
I have I run my own business the world of business is not evil nor is it out to get you ....its about making money to support yourself and employ others so they can support themselves and there family .

Its about safe guarding your profit margins and at the same time supplying a product or service that others need at a price point they find acceptable .

Yes when a business gets extremely large people can become just numbers to those who have no day to day dealings with the names they see on a spread sheet but trust me if your the one who has to tell a guy your letting him go for no other reason than you cannot afford to employ him any more its hard and its not nice ...........I've done it and you no what its not nice .

The world of business is not fall of heartless evil money grabbing champagne drinking human beings .......dear god running a business is bloody hard ....maybe everyone should try it once in there life because once you have your world outlook will be changed for ever ....I no mine was

Like I said if I was running a game development or publishing company i'd want a end to a lot of the practices that go n now in there present state ......why because its makes business sense .....that why in my opinion these are the last games machines we will see with a disk drive .
The truth is I'm surprised Microsoft just didn't go all digital this time

 

[Sigfried1977]

You can run a successful business without pissing everyone off, even on a large scale. I'm not expecting them to act like saints here. Heck, you could at least pretend to care about consumer needs and demands.

 

[Xalion]

Once again - this is not about "all digital" vs "physical media".

This is about a DRM policy that is just plain awful. It would still be awfulif it was applied to DD and physical media didn't exist. What Microsoft is proposing is that the consumer lose any right to "own" a game. Instead, Microsoft retains all privilidges and only allows consumers to do what they see fit.

The game industry as a whole has been moving this way for a while now. People have been getting more and more uncomfortable with it - as you can see by the backlash at DRM schemes like EA implemented. This is not a new concern, and it isn't just because Microsoft included a physical drive in the XBox One*. Microsoft just pushed it a little too far and are now seeing the backlash.

I think the question is will the backlash be enough to stop this model of DRM and make publishers and platform makers reconsider - or will people just bend over and take it. The only thing that will cause MS to reconsider is a significant drop in their bottom line, and that will only happen if reality follows the internet polls. I guess we'll see if that happens in November.

* On a side note - I have trouble with this name. Every time I abbreviate it it looks stupid. XB1 doesn't work, because that was used for the original XBox. XBone looks like X-Bone, and I think that is silly and can be taken as disrespectful. I really wish they had picked a different name.

 

[Sigfried1977]

Their end goal will probably be everyone just calling it Xbox eventually.