XBox One, PS4, DRM, and You

[wco81]

Lot of people with Android devices have their music libraries in iTunes.

 

[patsu]

iTunes tackled music piracy almost single handedly. RIAA were suing music fans in a desperate attempt to stop piracy. iTunes stabilized the situation by giving the industry an acceptable DRM. They were rewarded handsomely.

Steam tackled PC game piracy too.

The Xbox One DRM tackled used game sales which are legal. PS360 piracy wasn't even brought up.
It was seen as a tool that take away people's right(s) (and sense of ownership).

 

[zupallinere]

I would argue the opposite the mass market who by apple and Android tablets and phones fully understand they only have access to the content they buy as long as they keep to one or the other

1.99 a game vs 60 dollars....

The Mass Market doesn't have any history or experience is selling used mp3s or phone apps but they have DECADES of experience buying and selling used media and games. Where is the reward for the risk ? not having to swap disks around ??

 

[betan]

iTunes tackled music piracy almost single handedly. RIAA were suing music fans in a desperate attempt to stop piracy. iTunes stabilized the situation by giving the industry an acceptable DRM. They were rewarded handsomely.

Steam tackled PC game piracy too.

The Xbox One DRM tackled used game sales, which is legal. PS360 piracy wasn't even brought up.
It was seen as a tool that take away people's right(s) (and sense of ownership).

I don't have a horse in this race but very good point.

 

[blakjedi]

Right. So you're just using sweeping generalisations. Being called a shill is no more fun than being called a Sony fanbot by association (XB owners complaining about the DRM), because people are talking in these generalised terms without naming anyone because no-one quite knows who are the Sony fanbots and who are the MS fanbots.

Unless you know for a certainty who is arguing just for the sake of arguing, with no intention to buy the console and with no legitimate complaint either (a view on DRM is allowed even if you don't intend to buy the XB1. People are allowed views on stuff they've never done or never had and never will), your complaint is too sweeping to be of any use the conversation, and in dismissing those unnamed, uncounted people, you also dismiss those with legitimate complaints who were possible customers for XB1.

At the end of the day, the discussion should always revolve around the topic, not the posters. If your argument hinges on the population you're addressing, one, you're never going to get through to them, and two, you're going to have to have an incredibly good measure of the population or you'll be grouping a whole load of dissociated people into your argument. eg. "The opinions of Europeans don't matter as they are mostly Sony fanbots" would alienate European XB and Wii (U) owners (owner, in the case of Wii U ), dismissing their opinions.

It isn't sweeping or a generalization when the poll choice they clicked on was based on self-selection. They were being honest.

That selection was "I wasn't going to buy XB1 and I'm still not."

The part before the "and" means that it didn't really matter what MS' DRM plans were they weren't going to buy the console. The part after the "and" means that even with the same DRM as Sony they weren't going to buy the console. They were simply never going to buy the console and never saw Xbox as part of their gaming lifestyle.

I'm not inferring anything to that. That's what the poll states and the selections confirm.

How else can you read that poll, especially when its a "DRM revisited" at its root?

 

[blakjedi]

It was seen as a tool that take away people's right(s) (and sense of ownership).

It may have been seen that way by a vocal group and the media, but in fact it wasn't really that. Several mea culpa type articles in the media after the fact prove that. It enabled other new rights which never existed before which I among others also wanted and maybe even preferred. *shrug*

 

[brasnial]

1.99 a game vs 60 dollars....

The Mass Market doesn't have any history or experience is selling used mp3s or phone apps but they have DECADES of experience buying and selling used media and games. Where is the reward for the risk ? not having to swap disks around ??

Agreed the games are cheap can't argue with that one bit nor would I try there cheap for a reason all digital and they started all digital.
But make no mistake digital is the future in my opinion for games apple has just start to or are about to support a game controller that makes apples market place a very interesting market to watch .
By that I mean its possible for the kinds of games you and I enjoy to be published over there by watching that market to see whether they are interested in block buster games and how much they are will pay for a block buster .
We will get a idea of whether we are wrong or right about the masses wanting the right to sell there games lend there games rent there games .......we no the so called hardcore on consoles do 'we no the pc gamer doesn't seem to going by the popularity of steam .

By watching what happens over there in the next couple of years we will no if us gamers are fighting over nothing or something

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That selection was "I wasn't going to buy XB1 and I'm still not."

How else can you read that poll, especially when its a "DRM revisited" at its root?

There's no explanation why those replying weren't going to buy XB1. So it could be that they had made their mind up after E3 that XB1 wasn't for them, and the DRM wasn't the only reason why (illustrated by those who's opinion changed from 'no' to 'maybe'). That doesn't mean DRM didn't play a part in their decision making. Nor does it make their view on DRM irrelevant, unless you are suggesting that the only people allowed to complain about XB1's DRM are those who are buying the console, meaning you had to commit to buy a platform you disagreed with to earn the right to have an opinion on how you don't want to buy the console.

Edit: Let's demonstrate this with some hypothetics.

Poll post E3. Are you going to buy XB1? "No" says GiftySheezer

Poll post DRM change. Are you going to buy XB1 now? "Wasn't going to and still not going to" says GiftySheezer

XB1 price drop to $250 announced. Poll, are you going to buy XB1 now? "Yes" says GiftySheezer

XB1 DRM reinstated two weeks before release. Poll, are you going to buy XB1 now? "No" says GiftySheezer

The poll you are referencing was only created for one purpose, to see how the DRM change was affecting consumer interest.

 

[Tap In]

How are you interpreting the information that way? Poll "are you going to change platform" has 26:32 for PS3:XB360 respondents, which show a higher population of 360 owners than PS3 on this board (although weighted by who cares to reply). 60% of XB360 owners elected to swap platform. You're saying that these XB360 owners had no interest in getting an XB1 in the first place so it doesn't matter what MS did? Then with the change of DRM policy, a number of them switch to 'renewed interest'. How is that unrelated to MS's DRM choice?

For me the picture is clear - the lambasting of MS has come just as much from existing XB fans, owners of XB360s and probably XB's before that, who wanted to continue their XB experience but felt let down by MS, and said as much. Suggesting it's just Sony fans ranting about DRM is pretty ridiculous reasoning IMO. Unless one has been carefully checking the post history of everyone expressing a negative opinion to see if they are Sony fans (which clearly isn't the case as you have some clear XB fans telling us their history and POV), that sort of sweeping generalisation is probably just the product of a skewed perception.

I hear you shifty but the one question missing from the poll iirc, was "owned both Ps360, not getting x1 and same for both> ps4 only"... So that poll in regards to 360vps3 owners is skewed I believe. I could be wrong.


As for some of the comments regarding MS messaging contributing to the fear... And yes thank you for being honest about it being fear of the future, I think we were very impatient as I have said here before. They world of social media expects instant gratification these days and maybe I'm just old but I am more willing to let things unfold before jumping to conclusions.

, I also think MS screwed up by being behind schedule and unprepared to present everything they have planned and I think the leaks about it exasperated the fear and concern.

Even if it was a controlled leak hoping to blow over early and assuming that by launch they would have changed perception then I agree... MS should have done a helluva a better job with their plans, points, benefits and messaging.

 

[patsu]

It may have been seen that way by a vocal group and the media, but in fact it wasn't really that. Several mea culpa type articles in the media after the fact prove that. It enabled other new rights which never existed before which I among others also wanted and maybe even preferred. *shrug*

*shrug*

It should be possible to come up with a digital sharing scheme without taking away physical game resale. PS3 does that with their 3 device game sharing this gen.

Technically speaking, it should be possible to install BR games onto the HDD, and play the HDD version without the disc. The vendors will have to implement a more sophisticated offline checking scheme. They may not need to revise people's rights.


In fact, for used game sales revenue sharing, the industry should be able to come to terms behind the scene. The consumes don't even have to be involved.

 

[Bagel seed]

MS needed to come out guns blazing at E3 and talk about their DRM up front, and not with conflicting messages by a handful of PR guys leaking out after the conference. And especially not with any 'buy a 360' style comments.

Get CliffyB to come on stage and do a 30 minute educational speech into why gamers need to accept DRM and what the benefits are. I think his recent posts about the used game situation form the best argument for it. That would be the *only way* to even begin to convince people it's acceptable on a larger scale. MS didn't realize that and came out all bashful and shit about it, while spinning with a halfhearted attempt.

Make no mistake, the blame is solely on MS for being unable to convince gamers to go for it. Even with the FUD out there, even with forum warriors, and Jimmy Fallon coup de graces. This is 2013, where marketing and bad word of mouth spreads like wildfire, and yes, even ending up into the mainstream. "It's just business". They can try again next generation.

 

[betan]

It may have been seen that way by a vocal group and the media, but in fact it wasn't really that. Several mea culpa type articles in the media after the fact prove that. It enabled other new rights which never existed before which I among others also wanted and maybe even preferred. *shrug*

I think you guys are being naive in believing family share thing without questioning it especially considering how messy MS PR has been.

 

[zupallinere]

It enabled other new rights which never existed before

It enabled no new rights. You were given a vaguely worded statement (IMHO) about an interesting new way accessing games on your account and you were told that there is a wealth of convenience in digital download discs (DDDs) but obviously that statement and that convenience wasn't enough.

You do lose the right of First Sale ( either in fact or in perception ). I don't think the Autocad decision works for games but if so then the publishers would have sued Gamestop long ago.

In the EU a software license can be sold and bought used. That is not nothing from a global perspective.

 

[BRiT]

Alright, no one still participating is remotely willing to switch their position and nothing new is going to come to light. No sense in beating an undead horse.

Should something new come about, then we'll open this topic.