XBox One, PS4, DRM, and You

[Shifty Geezer]

Grandad will show them and then say "Now show me how you used your digital games" and they will reply "We cant microsoft no longer runs the authentication servers"

I point to film as that being untrue. You don't need a projector to be able to view old films - they have been ripped to digital and hosted to play. Eventually, games will be available online, emulated most likely. So your grandkids will ask about the game and you can show the game without needing the box (by that time quite possibly defective and unable to play the disk). The only thing lost is sticking the disk in the drive and needing a dozen different boxes to play all the different game types. That's something collectors will miss. Everyone else won't care. Like digital photography. Some old-school photographers miss the chemicals and the experiementation, but in real terms it means more flexibility, performance, no toxic chemicals and less environmental impact. Digital photography is better, full stop. Games on demand, as long as executed effectively, will be better.

 

[dragonelite]

I hate physical format(hate is a big word not a fan of). Its not that hard to buy over 50 games each gen i already lost seven 360 games and three ps3 games. Because of lending or disk get damaged. And god knows how many pc game disks i lost i bet its over 100 disks over the years or floppies.
Once i started to trust steam it has been a blessing. Huge ass library which doesn't get lost or damaged.

 

[Boke]

Huge ass library which doesn't get lost or damaged.

Until one of these all digital companies goes belly up. Then you will lose your entire library in one shot.
Think it won't/can't happen?.. Good luck with that.

There is no reason that digital & physical can't coexist. It baffles me why so many here are so anxious for physical media to disappear.

 

[3dilettante]

Once i started to trust steam it has been a blessing. Huge ass library which doesn't get lost or damaged.

What if your Steam account gets suspended/banned?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Why do people attribute emotions to viewpoints that aren't at all intrinsic to the argument? I'm not really seeing anyone who's anxious for physical copy to disappear. It seems inevitable to me, I'm not particularly resistant, I'm not hugely in favour, I see pros and cons to both arguments - how is that being anxious for physical copy's demise?

It's as if one can only have one of two opinions in any given argument- for and against - and there's no possibility of balance, or even general, unemotional disinterest.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What if your Steam account gets suspended/banned?

what if your console breaks down?

No solution is fool proof. There's always a chance you access to a game you bought ends one way or another. Just listing possible scenarios doesn't strike me as terribly constructive.

 

[Davros]

Eventually, games will be available online,

Ha, ms wont fund the authorization server indefinitely but I'm to believe they will freely stream my games library over the net for ever, unless your suggesting I should pay again to play the games I already own

 

[3dilettante]

what if your console breaks down?

I can buy another console. I thought digital goods couldn't break.
In the case of PC games, why can't I find another PC?

No solution is fool proof. There's always a chance you access to a game you bought ends one way or another. Just listing possible scenarios doesn't strike me as terribly constructive.

I make a distinction between the Law of Entropy/Act of God/Global Thermonuclear War and whatever corporate policy/quarterly profit/stupid software bug reason the other side of the authentication service can use to refuse to authenticate.

How about the global ban on a whole gamer's library if there's a chargeback?
How about the litany of hillarious Orign ban reasons? Use a curse word on EA's forum? Get quoted in a forum post that had a curse word in it?
Not sign up for an EA newsletter in the SimCity beta and trip some badly written ban script?
Get flagged incorrectly by a third party as performing a software return?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Probably pay again when we move to games-on-demand (you'll pay a subscription fee like NetFlix/Sky), same as Nintendo reselling old games, or NetFlix streaming content you bought on VHS videos years ago. There's also an assumption that XB1's games will only run on XB1. If they run on future hardware, there's no reason to discontinue the servers (for a significant period of time, until technological advances render them obsolete).

Lots of assumptions all round, and IMO not a lot is really watching where content is headed in the future.

 

[ninzel]

Does moving towards all dd and eventually streaming not move us towards specific platforms being less and less relevant?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I can buy another console.

So in 30 years' time, if your PS4 breaks you'll just buy another PS4?

Me, I'll fire up Sonycloud (maybe Goony cloud after Sony and Google's merger in 2027) and stream every PS game I ever had on demand as part of my PSN+++ service, whether on my TV, phone, MS brain-beamer, or digital window. We're going to get there, sooner or later. The economies and producers and conveniences are all headed that way. We'll stream our music, films, TV and games over the internet. We won't own anything, and just subscribe to services to gain access.

The failings of a few foolish early attempts at managing online don't prove it's doomed to failure. A stable, workable solution will happen.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Does moving towards all dd and eventually streaming not move us towards specific platforms being less and less relevant?

Yep. That's where consoles die out. We'll just have clients running on any old device.

 

[3dilettante]

So in 30 years' time, if your PS4 breaks you'll just buy another PS4?

The law of large numbers probably means there's going to be a working PS4 somewhere out there for many decades, if I'm forced to scrounge.

Me, I'll fire up Sonycloud (maybe Goony cloud after Sony and Google's merger in 2027) and stream every PS game I ever had on demand as part of my PSN+++ service, whether on my TV, phone, MS brain-beamer, or digital window.

Failure to comply with Paragraph 5323, subsection 75232342AADFFFF, of the 56 Kilopage TOS of MicroSony's game service leads to an unconditional account ban. All 30 years of your never-owned software is inaccessible.

The violated provision:

You didn't do as you were told.

If you feel that this decision was made in error, you can have this dispute mediated by SonySoft mediation.

The failings of a few foolish early attempts at managing online don't prove it's doomed to failure. A stable, workable solution will happen.

It can be fully functional and remain wildly abusive.

 

[Boke]

I'm not really seeing anyone who's anxious for physical copy to disappear.

I hate physical format

Lots of other examples in this thread.

 

[wco81]

An end to physical goods means an end to manufacturing and transportation, with positives for reducing human impact on the world. think of all the video and cassette tapes filling up landfill. Media's impact in that respect is completely eliminated (landfill or recycling costs) by a switch to something like an on-demand service. You also would have access to a far larger library than most folk could afford to buy for themselves or could fit in their house. 10,000 disc-based games would be a lot of space and a lot of capital, but a move to an on-demand future means everyone could have this.

All good in theory but you have to use more energy to keep content online.

There's a reason why most streaming services don't have every movie ever made, just the latest hits, because chances are, those will be demanded more so they don't have to expend storage or bandwidth for some 30-year old obscure title.

The long tail of movies reside among the billions of DVDs pressed in the last decade. They will never be put online. THey may not have even retained the masters used to press the discs.

 

[wco81]

Pricing is going to be driven by demand.

Look at the prices of Vita games. Nominally the SRP but a lot of sales.

Digital does give them more room to cut prices but doesn't mean they will.

 

[ninzel]

Yep. That's where consoles die out. We'll just have clients running on any old device.

And so how will platform holders like ms and Sony benefit when ultimately you don't need an ms or Sony device to play your games?
Isn't the goal to make your audience dependant on your platform more and more?

 

[function]

The law of large numbers probably means there's going to be a working PS4 somewhere out there for many decades, if I'm forced to scrounge.


Failure to comply with Paragraph 5323, subsection 75232342AADFFFF, of the 56 Kilopage TOS of MicroSony's game service leads to an unconditional account ban. All 30 years of your never-owned software is inaccessible.

The violated provision:


If you feel that this decision was made in error, you can have this dispute mediated by SonySoft mediation.


It can be fully functional and remain wildly abusive.

A thousand times this. The degree to which the move towards DD is being used to strip people of the right to the things they've paid for is disturbing, as is the false claim that the ultimate power is in the consumer's hands because they're the ones spending money.

No, the ultimate power comes from fair and properly enforced legislation. Price fixing, monopolies, protection from faulty or unfit goods, harassment and bullying, exploitation of the young and vulnerable ... all of these are things that "the customers wallet" alone have failed to fix.

You could bury anything in a 5000 word ToS or licence agreement. Being able to get a customer to put their mark on the dotted line ("press A to agree") should not be the only condition met before a corporation can do whatever the hell they want.

 

[AzBat]

Lots of other examples in this thread.

I think I will be one of those too, but not right away. I really hate having to insert a disc every time I want to play. I do get a little use out of used games even though the majority of the games bought were brand new. I won't feel bad or loose much sleep when discs are gone. LOL

Tommy McClain

 

[Tap In]

So in 30 years' time, if your PS4 breaks you'll just buy another PS4?

Me, I'll fire up Sonycloud (maybe Goony cloud after Sony and Google's merger in 2027) and stream every PS game I ever had on demand as part of my PSN+++ service, whether on my TV, phone, MS brain-beamer, or digital window. We're going to get there, sooner or later. The economies and producers and conveniences are all headed that way. We'll stream our music, films, TV and games over the internet. We won't own anything, and just subscribe to services to gain access.

The failings of a few foolish early attempts at managing online don't prove it's doomed to failure. A stable, workable solution will happen.

yes yes yes, the argument that my games won't exist unless I have a disc are less persuasive to me than this one above.

there is no reason to fear the digital model. we are already upon it, it's just that games have resisted longer because we rely on closed hardware that takes billions of investment to play... that model was fine for the past twenty or thirty years but is a ridiculous model considering where we are and where we are obviously going.