XBox One, PS4, DRM, and You

[Squilliam]

If we arrive at a digital only future then who's policies would you prefer?

1. Steam with one user and one account.
2. Sony with one user and a few systems.
3. Microsoft with their up to 10 users with sharing and online check.
4. Nintendo who dare I say it attaches content to a system only.

We probably won't have discs as a serious method of distribution in less than 5 years given the rapid advancement in internet connection speeds and alternatives such as flash drives will likely plug the gaps. I can't believe that people would really consider Microsoft's solution here to be anti-consumer given the alternatives are WORSE.

 

[Strange]

If we arrive at a digital only future then who's policies would you prefer?

1. Steam with one user and one account.
2. Sony with one user and a few systems.
3. Microsoft with their up to 10 users with sharing and online check.
4. Nintendo who dare I say it attaches content to a system only.

We probably won't have discs as a serious method of distribution in less than 5 years given the rapid advancement in internet connection speeds and alternatives such as flash drives will likely plug the gaps. I can't believe that people would really consider Microsoft's solution here to be anti-consumer given the alternatives are WORSE.

My opinion is that this won't come in at least 10 years. By the time they would need different business models, and most likely it's the ones that we haven't seen that will work.

 

[Brad Grenz]

2. Sony with one user and a few systems.

Any user can play a PSN game installed on a registered system. (and a single PS Plus account will cover multiplayer for all the users on a system).

 

[temesgen]

If we arrive at a digital only future then who's policies would you prefer?

1. Steam with one user and one account.
2. Sony with one user and a few systems.
3. Microsoft with their up to 10 users with sharing and online check.
4. Nintendo who dare I say it attaches content to a system only.

We probably won't have discs as a serious method of distribution in less than 5 years given the rapid advancement in internet connection speeds and alternatives such as flash drives will likely plug the gaps. I can't believe that people would really consider Microsoft's solution here to be anti-consumer given the alternatives are WORSE.

Personally I want to see a future with competing platforms so that the consumer has choice.

Its really amazing to see what a lightning rod platforms can be, much of the bickering here is people taking shots at someone's personal opinion about how they want to be able to access services. So much emotion and anger about what someone else wants to purchase or what they value.

 

[brasnial]

So the reason that Activision and ea is ok with the used market is because?

Btw your post belongs in my sig

Are they OK let's just wait and see ......I've read online for what its worth Sony changed track at the last minute .

If they did change track after saying one thing to publishers and developers it will show .
Microsoft could get more exclusive deals with these companies driving Xbox one mass market take up .

Hell if EA or Activision give MS exclusives because they see a value in DRM for second hand game sales and rental .
Losing money short term for a big win in the long term .

That's what Microsoft's DRM is all about making as much money for all from every game brought to market .....second hand game sales will still be with us the same as rentals the difference will be developers get a cut .......who would truly begrudge the creative minds behind the games there cut of these markets .

 

[Squilliam]

My opinion is that this won't come in at least 10 years. By the time they would need different business models, and most likely it's the ones that we haven't seen that will work.

News flash: We're already more than halfway there. Steam and other digital download platforms as well as the business done on consoles likely already exceeds 50% of the market. It is something which needs to be dealt with now.

 

[Davros]

I just don't get why everyone's up in arms over Microsoft's DRM

One day all your xbone games will stop working please explain why that is good can i smash up all your current games because you think its good that one day you wont be able to play them.

Doing away with the second hand market as its stands is just one way of trying to make profit .

It allready makes a profit, the games industry has already taking away nearly all of my consumer rights why is it good for gamers to have no rights.

A developer publisher they have to make money used games make them no money renting a game makes them no money

the ford make no money from second hand sales, they make no money from car rental, why is the games industry different.

£100 in its life time been played by three or four customers but the publisher.. developer only got a cut of one sale .

It only deserves a cut of one sale the sale it made, it does not make the other sales - if you think they deserve a cut and you believe in fairness then when I buy a game for $60 and sell it for $30 the industry should refund me some of my loss.

he same with renting how much money are they losing there as well

none, its not their money to lose, they made money becuse the rental company bought games, just like ford would like hertz car hire to buy a load of their cars.

Now I for one would prefer more return for the creative mind behind the hobby I love

so why dont you lobby the publishers to give devs a better deal. they are the villains here not the gamestop's

Ethics people

since your so ethical how when you sell your house how much will you give to the architect, when you sell your car how much will you give to the manufacturer ?

 

[Vardant]

If we arrive at a digital only future then who's policies would you prefer?

1. Steam with one user and one account.
2. Sony with one user and a few systems.
3. Microsoft with their up to 10 users with sharing and online check.
4. Nintendo who dare I say it attaches content to a system only.

We probably won't have discs as a serious method of distribution in less than 5 years given the rapid advancement in internet connection speeds and alternatives such as flash drives will likely plug the gaps. I can't believe that people would really consider Microsoft's solution here to be anti-consumer given the alternatives are WORSE.

You're missing some key elements in that comparison.

1. Sale prices up to 90% off with the really big ones at least 4 times a year. That offsets the limitation pretty well. Not to mention other 3rd party shops with their sales. There's also the almost given backwards compatibility over the years.
2. It's not one user, if you can freely lend or sell your game to anyone, anytime.
3. I don't think the 10 user sharing works like you think it works. It will probably only work for the first 10 accounts either created or logged into first on that particular console.

Also, if you need to check in for SP games, who guarantees you, that the game will still work after 4-10 years, if they decide to no longer support them? It's not only the check in, but also the cloud computing.

 

[Strange]

News flash: We're already more than halfway there. Steam and other digital download platforms as well as the business done on consoles likely already exceeds 50% of the market. It is something which needs to be dealt with now.

Your digital only future gets rid of stuff like Gamestop. I don't see them even remotely close to gone.

You really have to stop thinking everybody around the globe has decent internet and can handle 20+gigs of download a console game requires.

The fact that you and I are fine with it doesn't mean they should go digital only and ignore people that can't do that.

Many people also predicted that the next gen consoles won't even have a disk tray and go all digital back in 2005. we all see today how that became a reality.

 

[temesgen]

Are they OK let's just wait and see ......I've read online for what its worth Sony changed track at the last minute .

If they did change track after saying one thing to publishers and developers it will show .
Microsoft could get more exclusive deals with these companies driving Xbox one mass market take up .

Hell if EA or Activision give MS exclusives because they see a value in DRM for second hand game sales and rental .
Losing money short term for a big win in the long term .

That's what Microsoft's DRM is all about making as much money for all from every game brought to market .....second hand game sales will still be with us the same as rentals the difference will be developers get a cut .......who would truly begrudge the creative minds behind the games there cut of these markets .

Publishers aren't going to be anxious to see anyone fail, they need competition to prevent the platform holders from treating them the way Apple treats developers. If you honestly think they are going to under mind Sony bc of DRM you are not seeing the big picture.

Publishers are for the most part agnostic for good reason; yes they care about making money but they are careful not to disrupt the basic market dynamics because the blow back would be far worse.

 

[Strange]

You're missing some key elements in that comparison.

1. Sale prices up to 90% off with the really big ones at least 4 times a year. That offsets the limitation pretty well. Not to mention other 3rd party shops with their sales. There's also the almost given backwards compatibility over the years.
2. It's not one user, if you can freely lend or sell your game to anyone, anytime.
3. I don't think the 10 user sharing works like you think it works. It will probably only work for the first 10 accounts either created or logged into first on that particular console.

Also, if you need to check in for SP games, who guarantees you, that the game will still work after 4-10 years, if they decide to no longer support them? It's not only the check in, but also the cloud computing.

Add on to the fact that these 10 accounts probably have to be intertwined. Being in one family excludes you the possibility from entering another family.

No adultery allowed!

 

[-tkf-]

Are they OK let's just wait and see ......I've read online for what its worth Sony changed track at the last minute .

If they did change track after saying one thing to publishers and developers it will show .
Microsoft could get more exclusive deals with these companies driving Xbox one mass market take up .

Hell if EA or Activision give MS exclusives because they see a value in DRM for second hand game sales and rental .
Losing money short term for a big win in the long term .

That's what Microsoft's DRM is all about making as much money for all from every game brought to market .....second hand game sales will still be with us the same as rentals the difference will be developers get a cut .......who would truly begrudge the creative minds behind the games there cut of these markets .

What you read online has been contradicted before EDGE posted it. EA and Activision is on record for saying they don't have a problem with used markets, and afaik they both claimed they didn't ask for Microsoft DRM solution.

Maybe they are lying in everyones face while keeping a knife behind the back ready to gut the basic rights of customers.

And if you do the math, it would have to be a hell of alot money they would have to earn be going exclusive on "anything". There is a reason why it takes 1st party developers to keep something exclusive. Just use this generation as an example. A market of 60 million vs 120 million. And with the next gen it will be extremely easy compared to this gen when we talk about multi platform releases.

So question, do you really believe that Activision, EA, UBISOFT would drop half their potential market just for second hand sales? And by the looks of it, the PS4 market will be bigger than the XBONE

 

[Squilliam]

You're missing some key elements in that comparison.

1. Sale prices up to 90% off with the really big ones at least 4 times a year. That offsets the limitation pretty well. Not to mention other 3rd party shops with their sales. There's also the almost given backwards compatibility over the years.
2. It's not one user, if you can freely lend or sell your game to anyone, anytime.
3. I don't think the 10 user sharing works like you think it works. It will probably only work for the first 10 accounts either created or logged into first on that particular console.

Also, if you need to check in for SP games, who guarantees you, that the game will still work after 4-10 years, if they decide to no longer support them? It's not only the check in, but also the cloud computing.

1. I like the sales. It doesn't change the way they operate. This is a discussion on DRM, not whether or not you like the price.
2. I've never seen any game lent on Steam or any other digital distribution platform, please explain.
3. Possibly only one family is allowed or something of that nature.

What assurances do you have that Microsoft will keep backwards compatibility? That the graphics driver won't break? That the instructions on the processor won't be obsoleted? That Steam will still operate? That your account won't be taken from you in the intervening time period? You're assuming trust in a lot of places in one scenario and no trust in another?

Your digital only future gets rid of stuff like Gamestop. I don't see them even remotely close to gone.

You really have to stop thinking everybody around the globe has decent internet and can handle 20+gigs of download a console game requires.

The fact that you and I are fine with it doesn't mean they should go digital only and ignore people that can't do that.

Many people also predicted that the next gen consoles won't even have a disk tray and go all digital back in 2005. we all see today how that became a reality.

I predicted that the next generation won't have a disc tray. Well I guess they did the next closest thing. In the end the people who can't get it over the wire could probably put it on a storage device. A USB flash drive is as good as an optical disc drive and the cost of one is likely the same. In a couple of years you could get 128GB rather than 64GB which is the common large size these days.

P.S I haven't _seen_ a record store in a long time, but people still play music.

 

[Strange]

I predicted that the next generation won't have a disc tray. Well I guess they did the next closest thing. In the end the people who can't get it over the wire could probably put it on a storage device. A USB flash drive is as good as an optical disc drive and the cost of one is likely the same. In a couple of years you could get 128GB rather than 64GB which is the common large size these days.

P.S I haven't _seen_ a record store in a long time, but people still play music.

They may have done the next closest thing but physical media isn't gone.

And some people still buy CDs, mind you.

USB flash drives can never match the price of disks, which just cost too little to make, and USBs are still physical, and not "all digital".

 

[Deleted member 11852]

In 6 months, windows 8 sold Five. Hundred. Million. Copies. In 6 _years_, Apple sold 70 million copies of OS X. Is Windows 8 Microsoft's most successful product ever? No. Is it a failure? Hell no.

Come on man, you know that's a silly argument. Given the gargantuan size of the Windows market compared to OSX, comparing absolute sales numbers as a measure of product appeal is nonsense.

Apple said at their event on Monday that 35% of Macs are running the latest version of OSX and Windows 8 is running at about 5% I think. I don't necessarily think it's bad or surprising. Windows 7 is absolutely solid and it does everything most people want or need, so why pay for something that few benefits to the individual customer? No doubt 8's market share will increase with new hardware sales and the increase of touch screens in hardware.

 

[brasnial]

What you read online has been contradicted before EDGE posted it. EA and Activision is on record for saying they don't have a problem with used markets, and afaik they both claimed they didn't ask for Microsoft DRM solution.

Maybe they are lying in everyones face while keeping a knife behind the back ready to gut the basic rights of customers.

And if you do the math, it would have to be a hell of alot money they would have to earn be going exclusive on "anything". There is a reason why it takes 1st party developers to keep something exclusive. Just use this generation as an example. A market of 60 million vs 120 million. And with the next gen it will be extremely easy compared to this gen when we talk about multi platform releases.

So question, do you really believe that Activision, EA, UBISOFT would drop half their potential market just for second hand sales? And by the looks of it, the PS4 market will be bigger than the XBONE

Let's wait and see what happens before we talk market share here ..I have no doult Sony will out sell Microsoft at launch .

I'm not a Microsoft fan i'm a gamer .

digital is the future in my opinion now I want a digital future where you can rent games sell games .......but in this future developers will get a cut if these markets which means more money for all the creative people behind the game .

Which means that as a gamer I win as the creative people get more money to create more for me to enjoy .
Look the game industry is in trouble because of price and pressure from cheap fun five minute pass the time games on smart phones .

They need to find new ways of making money from there games taking a small cut from used game sales and rentals I'm OK with .

That's my personal thoughts about it all .
Let those who create the thing I love have a share of all money made from there creation .

To my life out look it just seems fair to me personally

 

[Vardant]

1. I like the sales. It doesn't change the way they operate. This is a discussion on DRM, not whether or not you like the price.
2. I've never seen any game lent on Steam or any other digital distribution platform, please explain.
3. Possibly only one family is allowed or something of that nature.

What assurances do you have that Microsoft will keep backwards compatibility? That the graphics driver won't break? That the instructions on the processor won't be obsoleted? That Steam will still operate? That your account won't be taken from you in the intervening time period? You're assuming trust in a lot of places in one scenario and no trust in another?

1. PC, 2. Sony, 3. MS, I thought it would be obvious, since you were the one who started to categorize it like that :smile:

I've seen EA, MS and other companies to pull a plug on their games only two years after their release, making the MP unplayable. Nothing from Valve yet. Same with Windows, DOS is gone, the support in Windows is gone, but you can still play those games. You can go around these kind of things on the PC.

Losing a Steam account is pretty hard, since you can IP lock your account and recover it with just one proof of purchase. So I'm definitely not worried about that.

Sure, we're talking about DRM, but that doesn't mean you should exclude things like prices and other inherent positives of any given platform, that change the way you see the restrictions imposed by the DRM.

Games on consoles pretty much always start at $60, if I can't sell it because of the DRM, that is one thing. If I can wait 2-3 months and the game is suddenly 25-50% off(and goes up to 90% off in the first year), than I have no problem with that. You can't compare one without the other.

 

[MrFloopy]

Come on man, you know that's a silly argument. Given the gargantuan size of the Windows market compared to OSX, comparing absolute sales numbers as a measure of product appeal is nonsense.

Apple said at their event on Monday that 35% of Macs are running the latest version of OSX and Windows 8 is running at about 5% I think. I don't necessarily think it's bad or surprising. Windows 7 is absolutely solid and it does everything most people want or need, so why pay for something that few benefits to the individual customer? No doubt 8's market share will increase with new hardware sales and the increase of touch screens in hardware.

I agree, it's just silly to say windows has more appeal simply because many times more people choose to buy it over other products.

 

[Davros]

Look the game industry is in trouble

It's cried poverty from day one and you fell for it, its worth something like 100billion how much does it need.
ps: you still havnt told us when you sell your car or your house what percentage of the money you will be giving to the people who created those items
pps: im surprised your against the free market thats quite an unusual stance.

 

[dagamer]

They may have done the next closest thing but physical media isn't gone.

And some people still buy CDs, mind you.

USB flash drives can never match the price of disks, which just cost too little to make, and USBs are still physical, and not "all digital".

I would have gone pure digital and set up mall kiosks for people with slower Internet connections plus the ability to copy game data from the system itself to a thumb drive so it can be installed on another system (of course you'd have to pay for the license). A pure digital system doesn't need 24 hour checks.