Well it is 256 bits wide, 16 modules x 16. I guess I was assuming that was 4 channels of 64 bits.
I think that is an ok assumption.
Xbox One (Durango) Technical hardware investigation
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Well it is 256 bits wide, 16 modules x 16. I guess I was assuming that was 4 channels of 64 bits.
I think that is an ok assumption.
The bean counters have had 4 months since the PS4 reveal, and whatever they showed off in April was far too short a time period to make any adjustments and have it shown off to the press.
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Microsoft wouldn't have needed to show an updated box at their May event, or even E3, they would only need have known the changes were green lit for production so they announce those updated specs. Obviously you can't show the motherboard (it's easy to count those sixteen DDR3 chips) but that's not unusual.
Why can't the other chips be on the back of the board? Like the 360 motherboard?
Like most GPU cards? Or is that a GDDR3 or GDDR5 only thing? [I don't think so since all my DIMM and SO-DIMM DDR3 have chips on both sides.]
If you look at many GPU cards there are also empty spots/memory module land patterns where extra memory goes for the next higher up card. (Often the next higher up card is on the same PCB.)
The motherboard would have to have those traces already or else it's a respin for the motherboard which is a non-trivial delay in itself. If it does have those traces already then an increase is trivial but as your GPU example illustrates you only have those if there is a good reason (one PCB design for many SKUs saves mucho $$$ but XBOne is a one SKU dealie).
We have to take into account that the current pictures show the board having very little room on the back for airflow to cool any RAM chips placed there. Again in your GPU example this is largely irrelevant as the card is perpendicular to the motherboard and is cooled on both sides by case airflow to some degree anyway. As a another example consider your PC m/b which has very few large capacitors let alone ASICs on the reverse side due to the cooling challenges there.
DDR3 doesn't need to be cooled.
It generates some heat especially if it's 2133 DDR3 and the current XBOne design seems to have no space for any airflow on the underside of the PCB. I'm not saying it needs a peltier but it does need some cooling and the present box shows no sign of having been designed for it
The original board shown to wired seemed to be all on the front:
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6972/20130514-XBOX-ONE-TEARDOWN-015.jpg
Looks like 16x4Gb = 8GB?
They could mount them on the back, but they are going to heat up down there - given RROD, I doubt MS would want to make that sort of change this close to release?
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6972/20130514-XBOX-ONE-TEARDOWN-015.jpg
This image from Anandtech from the Wired article shows 16x4Gb RAM modules arranged around the cpu socket. I didn't look up the modules myself but I believe someone else in this thread did so previously and confirmed the part numbers
Edit 2: Ninja'd
This image from Anandtech from the Wired article shows 16x4Gb RAM modules arranged around the cpu socket. I didn't look up the modules myself but I believe someone else in this thread did so previously and confirmed the part numbers
Edit 2: Ninja'd
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Unless that's how their dev boards are already doing it (they do have 12GB supposedly) in which case they can get some good stress testing in pretty quickly.
The DDR3 in my laptop is covered by a solid sheet of plastic (screw mounted door without any holes). It is pretty packed in there. The Xbox One board looks very spacious in comparison.
I think my older DDR2 laptop was the same.
It isn't 2133 but it was the fastest I could buy/support in Nov 2012 for a new machine. Can't remember the speed off the top of my head right now.
But then again I put my laptops on top of aluminum mesh coolers with large quiet fans for a reason.
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It's probably PC3-12800 but your case will have been designed to accommodate the heat and as Dave Baumann said DDR3 chips are not very hot. The key is though that your system was designed to cool both sides of the PCB either by passive venting or by ensuring a good (if thin) path from side vents over any area requiring cooling (helped by the fact most airflow is parallel to the m/b as most n/b use blower style coolers). I just don't see any sign of that in the current XBOne design with it's low m/b case clearance and perpendicular cooling arrangement. Combine that with the 16 RAM chips all seeming to be arrayed around the socket I just don't see them hiding extra RAM on the base of the M/B.
I was trying to find any shots of the XB1 case without the motherboard but the only half decent shot is that linked earlier in the thread. Irritatingly the Wired 'Every Photo you could ever want' stream has no shots of the bottom of the system or the case w/o motherboard but I suppose my wants are a bit more obscure than most! They could change the design but it would impact yet another part of the supply chain and make hitting Nov 2013 even harder (even if the fix is just adding holes underneath the case).
heat wont matter on the ddr chips. They don't get warm enough. I have ddr 3 1866 in my rig and its barely warm. I have a water block on my cpu so only case air movement will cool it.
THe 360 has ram on both the front and back of the board and there is no problem cooling it.
The xbox one final dev kits have ram on both the front and back of the board.
THe 360 has ram on both the front and back of the board and there is no problem cooling it.
The xbox one final dev kits have ram on both the front and back of the board.
Are final dev kits in something like the retail xbo case or more of a pc case?
Ah ha!
So if it looks very close to the Wired photos, but with a different BOM (bill of materials) - 16 2G modules soldered on the back - then it looks like they already have a design and PCB they could use. It is called the final dev kit, which is based upon the production design in the first place.
They might have had these final dev kits since Jan? (When did they ship? Jan? Feb?)
Eastmen: Do you know if it is 16 x 2G Micron modules on the back?
They might have planned this (the dev kit) a year ago. They might have intended all along to just populate the extra bottom memory module land patterns to easily make their final dev kit using all the regular production PCB, case, components, etc.
So if someone at MS asked for ideas for more memory someone else at MS likely said... ..."why not just assemble it like the final dev kit? We already did that and shipped those out X months ago. We know it works and it is easy."
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Final devs kits? no more beta kits? interesting, maybe we can have new information soon.
Going for 12 GB or even 16 GB (whichever the devkits currently have) would probably be a smart decision.
1) Extra memory can be used to decrease load times by pre-loading data in advance. Load times were one of the most problematic aspects of this generation and I fear it's going to be worse this time around. It's something customer will surely notice when comparing games on the two platforms.
2) More memory than PS4 available for games might simplify porting multi-platform games in case PS4 becomes the lead platform for developers. This might very well happen if the PS4 gains momentum in the first year due to a lower price.
3) Do not underestimate the marketing advantage of claiming superiority to PS4 in at least one quantifiable and easy marketable aspect.
1) Extra memory can be used to decrease load times by pre-loading data in advance. Load times were one of the most problematic aspects of this generation and I fear it's going to be worse this time around. It's something customer will surely notice when comparing games on the two platforms.
2) More memory than PS4 available for games might simplify porting multi-platform games in case PS4 becomes the lead platform for developers. This might very well happen if the PS4 gains momentum in the first year due to a lower price.
3) Do not underestimate the marketing advantage of claiming superiority to PS4 in at least one quantifiable and easy marketable aspect.
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