Xbox One (Durango) Technical hardware investigation

[Bagel seed]

Not likely.

Going by the poor yields rumor from CBOAT, either they are going full retard and upclocking now to make the situation even worse, or the yield issue itself is a result of the upclock. There was never any indication of the latter from insiders, so I guess it's more likely to be the former. And in that case I'd err on the side of low unit availability. Perhaps a situation on par with the original 360 at best.

 

[BRiT]

Or the CBOAT rumor was and is entirely false and nothing but pure FUD hatred aimed at MS. Please, lets not bring that likely false rumor back to life.

 

[Michellstar]

Changing DRM with a patch is not the same as over clocking a GPU,specially on the xbox brand which could lead to heat issue,just to get a few more flops,75mhz will not close the gap the PS4 and xbox one have,and would expose the console to unnecessary heat issues.

I wasn´t talking about the difficulties of those changes, It was about the willingness of Ms to reverse some of their decisions.

Anyway, without knowing what´s coming from the foundry, we can´t really say that AMD/Ms is overclocking anything.

What average of good chips clock at this level, at which voltage, well many unknowns outside both companies.

The hard fact is that Ms didn´t disclose the clocks.

 

[BeyondTed]

Going by the poor yields rumor from CBOAT, either they are going full retard and upclocking now to make the situation even worse, or the yield issue itself is a result of the upclock. There was never any indication of the latter from insiders, so I guess it's more likely to be the former. And in that case I'd err on the side of low unit availability. Perhaps a situation on par with the original 360 at best.

Doubt it. Seriously doubt such low clock rates would have any affect on yield. [I am talking GPU clocks. I can not say on the ESRAM. Don't know what it really is.]

Sounds like a false rumor. Likely just fake rumors to bash the competition.

Again it is hard to see the memory or clock rumors requiring anything to be done to the SoC. It doesn't take that long to adjust the PCB, VRM components or get different modules from Micron. All of that is pretty quick, the longest lead being the memory (which isn't too long). The PCB, VRM and memory quantities are fairly small in terms of industry capacities.

 

[McHuj]

As far as this potential upclock is concerned? Is it the CPU and GPU or just GPU?

 

[eastmen]

Because Microsoft is a company that can do anything. This is the vibe I'm getting from a lot of people in here, redesign a console in a month? no problem, majorly change heat and power? no problem.

I think a lot of people aren't being realistic.

MS already has silicon with 12 gigs of ram avalible to developers. That is what the dev kits are shipping with. The extra 4 gigs of ram is for the debug code to run. MS can choose to eat the cost and go to 12 gigs for console if they choose too. The only things it will change is the cost of the system , it wont affect yields or production since ddr 3 is plentiful .

There is no redisgn anywhere. No one is talking about new cpus or gpus. Everything talked about is possible.

The problem for sony is they designed the box as small as possible around a fixed tdp and announced the size and diminsons to the public . THey are also taking as many pre orders as possible. So if the chips come in to hot and poor yielding what are they going to do ? Increase the size of the ps4 ? Stiff customers who preordered cause fewer chips hit the new clock speeds ?

Now remember neither company is mass producing these products yet and I believe for both companies there is still time for at least one more spin if the silicon . So both can improve yields or broken functionality in the hardware.

 

[Rangers]

Going by the poor yields rumor from CBOAT, either they are going full retard and upclocking now to make the situation even worse, or the yield issue itself is a result of the upclock. There was never any indication of the latter from insiders, so I guess it's more likely to be the former. And in that case I'd err on the side of low unit availability. Perhaps a situation on par with the original 360 at best.

I have a hard time believing the low yield situation is too horrible when the launch day edition XB1 (apparently guaranteed for launch day delivery) is available right now on Amazon.com whereas launch guaranteed PS4 sold out ages ago.

I fully believe XB1 has less preorders than PS4, but still.

 

[Bagel seed]

Or the CBOAT rumor was and is entirely false and nothing but pure FUD hatred aimed at MS. Please, lets not bring that likely false rumor back to life.

His track record is quite good though. Anyways, he wasnt the lone person saying it. If we're willing to entertain B3D forum goer rumors it's probably best to take stock of it too at least.

Doubt it. Seriously doubt such low clock rates would have any affect on yield.

Sounds like a false rumor. Likely just fake rumors to bash the competition.

Not solely because of clocks, but due to ESRAM. That's where some speculated a downclock could mitigate the issue.

 

[BeyondTed]

Now remember neither company is mass producing these products yet and I believe for both companies there is still time for at least one more spin if the silicon . So both can improve yields or broken functionality in the hardware.

PCB, memory modules, clock, heatsink, fan or VRM, sure.

Silicon? Yikes. Re-test/re-bin sure. Re-spin, test/qual and ship new silicon in four months is scary. Seen stuff like that - it isn't good.

 

[eastmen]

PCB, memory modules, clock, heatsink, fan or VRM, sure.

Silicon? Yikes. Re-test/re-bin sure. Re-spin, test/qual and ship new silicon in four months is scary. Seen stuff like that - it isn't good.

Yea , last we saw it was phenom and bulldozer. But its not impossible. Remember if they are just going for yields then they can still be producing the current chips for quanity even at lower yields and switch to the respin when its ready for better yields.

 

[BeyondTed]

As far as this potential upclock is concerned? Is it the CPU and GPU or just GPU?

Totally guessing I would assume it is the GPU only based upon the 768 ops and the assumption that it is in the same class as the "other" GPU making it potentially stick out as a limiting factor.

Does anyone know? Has anyone got an answer from a source?

 

[expletive]

His track record is quite good though. Anyways, he wasnt the lone person saying it. If we're willing to entertain B3D forum goer rumors it's probably best to take stock of it too at least.



Not solely because of clocks, but due to ESRAM. That's where some speculated a downclock could mitigate the issue.

Or maybe the down-clock was from 1ghz?

 

[Solarus]

but cboat never said there was a downclock, that's what people with absolutely no reading comprehension who conflate multiple posts by multiple people came up with. he said there was yield problems.

 

[McHuj]

Or maybe the down-clock was from 1ghz?

M. Shyamalan would be proud.

 

[Kb-Smoker]

Or the CBOAT rumor was and is entirely false and nothing but pure FUD hatred aimed at MS. Please, lets not bring that likely false rumor back to life.

Wow...

His track record is spot on. Only thing he said was yields. That seems confirmed by the small amount of preorders out there.

 

[MrFox]

The problem for sony is they designed the box as small as possible around a fixed tdp and announced the size and diminsons to the public . THey are also taking as many pre orders as possible. So if the chips come in to hot and poor yielding what are they going to do ? Increase the size of the ps4 ? Stiff customers who preordered cause fewer chips hit the new clock speeds ?

All of that applies equally to the xbox one. Sony's major advantage in form factor exists regardless of the amount of heat generated by either console.

Even without having the details about PS4's heat sink, we can deduce why xbone is bigger. The DDR3 is taking a very large space compared to GDDR5, so MS cannot make their box much smaller in width and length because of the motherboard size, and they need a lot of height because they used a vertical flow, ducted fan (which I think is a bad choice, but I digress). I don't think they overbuilt their heat sink, or that it is able to dissipate much more heat than planned. They do have the space to redesign it, but just like Sony, that would require a lot of physical redesign.

 

[XpiderMX]

Wow...

His track record is spot on. Only thing he said was yields. That seems confirmed by the small amount of preorders out there.

Their sources can be wrong, he said Mirror's Edge 2 would be on Microsoft E3 conference.

 

[Kaotik]

The problem for sony is they designed the box as small as possible around a fixed tdp and announced the size and diminsons to the public . THey are also taking as many pre orders as possible. So if the chips come in to hot and poor yielding what are they going to do ? Increase the size of the ps4 ? Stiff customers who preordered cause fewer chips hit the new clock speeds ?

Isn't "increase the size" exactly what they did with PS3?

 

[stofcri]

MS already has silicon with 12 gigs of ram avalible to developers. That is what the dev kits are shipping with. The extra 4 gigs of ram is for the debug code to run. MS can choose to eat the cost and go to 12 gigs for console if they choose too. The only things it will change is the cost of the system , it wont affect yields or production since ddr 3 is plentiful .

There is no redisgn anywhere. No one is talking about new cpus or gpus. Everything talked about is possible.

The problem for sony is they designed the box as small as possible around a fixed tdp and announced the size and diminsons to the public . THey are also taking as many pre orders as possible. So if the chips come in to hot and poor yielding what are they going to do ? Increase the size of the ps4 ? Stiff customers who preordered cause fewer chips hit the new clock speeds ?

Now remember neither company is mass producing these products yet and I believe for both companies there is still time for at least one more spin if the silicon . So both can improve yields or broken functionality in the hardware.

AFAIK ,MArk Cerny said that they start developping the PS4 right after PS3 launch,in 2007 so they had time to test many configurations.
They didn't include an EsRam module on the same DIE than the APU and so they limit its propagation of heat to the APU.The problem of MS is to have prefered EsRam+DDR3 over GDDR5 to limit the costs in production .It's all about money here and now they discover that the EsRam on the same Die than the APU affects the production and could create overheating.Why do you think the fan and the box are so huge?To avoid another RROD(I know I already said it)series.
And I really hope one more time,that the mass production already began if they (both manufacturers)targetting to launch their consoles this fall...

 

[Tap In]

but cboat never said there was a downclock, that's what people with absolutely no reading comprehension who conflate multiple posts by multiple people came up with. he said there was yield problems.

perhaps... but it was the followers who ran with a rumor and spun the BS of a downclock while jumping for joy and then kneeling to praise almighty cboat

really exciting to see MS trying to make some moves to create hw parity

Isn't "increase the size" exactly what they did with PS3?

yea in fact who is to say Sony won't have a reduction somewhere along the line either.... as has been noted "specs change" does not only apply to upclocks nor only to MS