Xbox One (Durango) Technical hardware investigation
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Michellstar
Regular
I agree that it might be insane, but...
Two weeks ago X1 was a DRM trojan horse
Head of IEBM was still Don Mattrick
So, who knows what further sacrifices they are willing to make
Apparently the whole Don Mattrick case is part of the re-construction of Microsoft - he was expecting a big job which never got promised so he left. According to latest rumors are giving current Windows chief Julie Larson-Green all of the hardware department(s) too.
(((interference)))
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No one's convinced of anything, we're awaiting confirmation - but it seems more likely than the downclock rumour (which now seems to be FUD spread by CBOAT and parroted by a bunch of other 'insiders' - no one else outside GAF had heard of it).
Basically, eastmen seems to be telling the truth about what he's heard and unlike say, Reiko and his story, it's been made aware to me that a completely unrelated source seems to be hinting at the same thing.
His reason for why they can get away with an upclock seems quite plausible too:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1761963&postcount=4375
Similarly, with the 12 GB of DDR3, there are murmurings that MS is seeking dev feedback on the amount of RAM, with 12 GB apparently an option and someone else is also telling me 12 GB is a real possibility and not as difficult for them to implement as you may think.
Plus, as i've said before, the biggest complaint by devs working on XB1 was about the large system reservation - so it's not like they have no impetus to increase the memory.
So for both rumours, there are two independent sources - I'm waiting on more confirmation though which maybe will turn up by the end of the week
Basically, eastmen seems to be telling the truth about what he's heard and unlike say, Reiko and his story, it's been made aware to me that a completely unrelated source seems to be hinting at the same thing.
His reason for why they can get away with an upclock seems quite plausible too:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1761963&postcount=4375
Similarly, with the 12 GB of DDR3, there are murmurings that MS is seeking dev feedback on the amount of RAM, with 12 GB apparently an option and someone else is also telling me 12 GB is a real possibility and not as difficult for them to implement as you may think.
Plus, as i've said before, the biggest complaint by devs working on XB1 was about the large system reservation - so it's not like they have no impetus to increase the memory.
So for both rumours, there are two independent sources - I'm waiting on more confirmation though which maybe will turn up by the end of the week
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That was for Jaguar CPU's.
And even then I recall working the actual watt numbers in play and they seemed to come in reasonable on a 2ghz Jag regardless of raw percentages. IE like going from 15 watts to 25, latter is a huge percentage increase but still seems quite manageable (though I dont remember the exact numbers).
Love_In_Rio
Veteran
Yes, it was ( difference between Kabini A-5000 and Kabini A-5200 ):
4 Jaguar Cores from 1,6 ----> 2GHz
2 CUs from 500 MHz ----> 600 MHz
tdp from 15w ----> 25w
Without the CUs what are we talking here, of a 8 jaguar cores cpu at 2GHz with a tdp of 30-35w ?. That´s not out of this world IMO, and i suspect that at E3 many developers were waiting for final kits ( check Infinity Ward claims for example ) of both Sony and MS in the hope of a beefer cpu...
Remember ( not saying is true but not imposible ):
And besides, AMD Kabini at 2GHz will go into netbooks and the jewel of the crown apus will go at 1,6GHz?. I don´t buy it.
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Yeah i understand its just rumors but i'm just kind of amazed how the conversation has changed in a month.
Ok so the rumored RAM upgrade is *possibly* 12GB, whats the rumored clock increase? Are we talking 850 or something more substantial closer to 1ghz/2ghz?
Also, are the ESRAM bandwidth improvement rumors related to these?
Yes in absolute wattage terms, its not too bad and makes more sense in a high performance console than in a device where low power consumption is the primary goal.
(((interference)))
Veteran
This is why I'm trying to find out whether DDR3-2133 comes in 6 gigabit modules as it would be an easy way to up the RAM to 12 GB, just replace the 16x4 gigabit modules with 16x6 gigabit ones.
Eastmen is saying 75 MHz (or 'possibly a little more') for the upclock, I haven't heard that repeated by anyone else or got any other number yet.
However, thermphenix was talking about 50-100 MHz upclock, but I don't know who he is.
The ESRAM bw rumours are completely unrelated as far as I know. And actually, that's not a rumour anymore, it's pretty much true - in my books at least - since, as mentioned earlier, Richard got that from an MS briefing update sent to devs - and while it may be confusing and seem implausible etc, that's what MS sent out.
Eastmen is saying 75 MHz (or 'possibly a little more') for the upclock, I haven't heard that repeated by anyone else or got any other number yet.
However, thermphenix was talking about 50-100 MHz upclock, but I don't know who he is.
The ESRAM bw rumours are completely unrelated as far as I know. And actually, that's not a rumour anymore, it's pretty much true - in my books at least - since, as mentioned earlier, Richard got that from an MS briefing update sent to devs - and while it may be confusing and seem implausible etc, that's what MS sent out.
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Something else is implied by 12 GB, a 384 bit bus which increases main memory bandwidth to 102 GB/s. The 384 bit rumor has been bounced around many times, although I have no idea if that comes from separate rumors or just echo chamber.
arijoytunir
Regular
isnt the 256bit memory controller lies inside the apu ?
if so how can they change it this late
?
Your quote about the jaguar 4 core + 2 CU offers an explanation for the weird 14 +4 design for the PS4 GPU. Now things make a lot more sense. The GPU could be 16 cores with 2 redundant CU. Makes much more sense the 18 CU. If that is truly the case, then its 12 CU versus 14. An upclock of 15% for XB1 now gives CU parity on the GPU.
Love_In_Rio
Veteran
If you go 384 bits you will be pad limited forever and say good by to process shrinks.
Love_In_Rio
Veteran
No, is AMD Kabini APU the one with 4 jaguar cores and 2 GCN CUs. It was an example to get the tdp that could have a 8 jaguar cores cpu at 2GHz.
Betanumerical
Veteran
12GB and a 384bit bus is something they would have mentioned if they had it, a decision for something like that doesn't happen overnight, it would have had to have been there from the start and it wasn't.
I would think that they could blend in some 8Gb ddr3 memory chip, if those chips actually exist, I've no idea, I made a real quick search and with people writing GB, Gb or gb as if they were the same the results I got for Google...
If doable they have quite some options depending on how the memory chips link to the memory controller.
As for an overclock, here are hardware.fr measurements (in order) for the hd 7750, the hd 7770 and the 7790 (that include the RAM and the later has faster ram): 45 Watts, 76 Watts and 83 Watts.
All those measurements include the RAM and the impact of GDDR5 on power consumption (be it the memory chips themselves or the memory controller).
Looking at the Xbone enclosure, the cooling solution, I guess if yields are good and/or MSFT feels it has no choice but to have a couples of technical "wins" vs SOny and wash the PR disaster that was the unveiling of the system with some good news, well I guess the system could deal with quite some more Watts at the expense of noise (fan noises).
From a noise perspective, I think the primary concern would be that non-gaming scenarios are silent (movies, TV, apps). Based on what we know about the chips being able to go in a lower power mode when not being taxed, i'm sure they could still have a silent box during these activities and only have slightly more fan noise during graphic-intensive operations.
Averagejoe
Regular
I agree that it might be insane, but...
Two weeks ago X1 was a DRM trojan horse
Head of IEBM was still Don Mattrick
So, who knows what further sacrifices they are willing to make
Changing DRM with a patch is not the same as over clocking a GPU,specially on the xbox brand which could lead to heat issue,just to get a few more flops,75mhz will not close the gap the PS4 and xbox one have,and would expose the console to unnecessary heat issues.
Do you really believe that.?
If the dev kits have 12gb then they could roll with that layout for retail kit perhaps. Maybe its a mix of 4gb/8gb modules.
I think you are thinking about the jaguar core. The data on the GPU part (which is on a different power plane I think) shows that 21.08 GFLOPS/Watt (very good) is possible at 1 GHz clocks on 28 nm.
So I think the concern is the GPU end of things in the APU. They might not want or need to clock the CPU side any differently.
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