Xbox One (Durango) Technical hardware investigation

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Love_In_Rio, Jan 21, 2013.

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  1. anexanhume

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    I expect publishers to use Xbone's position as leverage against sony and the ps4 unless they can jump out to some huge market share lead early. After all, MS is giving pubs what they want in the first place.
     
  2. french toast

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    They may not be going for thermals, like you say this may just be down to yields only.
    This makes a difference in the long run, I have no doubt with the cooling we have seen, the space in the box, the rumoured 220w external PSU, the retail components hitting the clocks speeds we are suggesting with ease... That it's more a matter of yields than it is thermals and power consumption.

    Dont forget it is not just ps4 being 50% more compute power, it has rumoured double the rops and 64 compute threads, not to mention likely more system wide bandwidth.

    I havnt even touched on the fact Xbone likely reserves 2 jaguar cores over ps4 rumoured 1, also 3gb ram compared 1 rumoured for ps4.

    Its not hard to imagine Xbone running the same games at half the speed, maybe with some IQ turned down also.

    That would enable ps4 to market itself as the world most power full console for years to come... The games visibly better.

    As some have pointed out, consumer jaguar are binned for strict tdps as they have to be squashed in tablets and razor thin networks, they also can't be allowed to go to powerfull else it will deplete steamroller sales, so I don't thing they are comparable and I don't think k we can use anandtechs kabini preview as a basis for what a well cooled big black box plugged into the wall can achieve.
     
  3. James Car

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    That's just it though, even assuming Sony follows through with every one of MS' policies (which I don't like) at least with ps4 the spec is better so fewer instances of choppy framerate or subHD games. Not to mention they seem to be more developer friendly along with their historically strong 1st/2nd party devs and an easy to code for platform to target.

    With MS it's like a good-news / bad-news scenario where they said "ok do you want to hear the good news or the bad news first?" and then proceeded to say the bad news is that their policies are drm and privacy invasion heavy, but the "good" news is that they are only 33% behind in compute capabilities.

    Like I said, the architecture is just too weak to support any negative policies.
     
  4. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Specious Misanthrope
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    I'd wait for the e3 reveals and see if joe consumer can tell the difference between cross platform games.
     
  5. 3dilettante

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    The eSRAM would be affected by the clock speed in terms of power as well. The Jaguar cores half-clock the 2MB of their SRAM for power reasons. The activity level of the eSRAM is on the order of the L2s.


    My pessimistic reading of the rumors concerning Durango's warm beta kits and the rumored downgrade in the various interconnect speeds for Orbis is that things went a little less than perfect.

    Taking things back after promising them has burnt Sony before.
    That and fusing things off just because doesn't eliminate their die size contribution, which impacts the number of candidates for wafers and can hurt you with intra-die variation.

    The GPUs are priced much higher than the probable price Microsoft is paying for a console component. AMD's free to sell its cards and the PC platform takes care of the rest. It offers no software, no exclusives, no services, and no other features other than providing the GPU.

    Then there's getting the 3dmark scores and benchmarks, which enough gamers care about in the PC space, apparently.
    The nature of console comparisons is a little more sparse, and countless gamers go against the performance grain.

    For the Xbox One, I'm more concerned by the alleged thicker API layer and complex memory setup than the incremental clock adjustment.

    Many of the people who care enough to have respect for such actions don't all pay money for respect, sadly. Way more people haven't a clue either way.
    And until we see actual games with severe discrepancies, the functionality governed by core measures like ALU throughput and bandwidth can be considered equivalent.

    I read the graphics comparison articles, but too many of the people I know don't see the difference. Too many other factors get in the way.

    I added an edit for that. I used too much certainty beyond the history of creating eventual salvage SKUs that don't register in western markets.

    That was poor wording on my part. My question is whether the console chips use GF's process versus the TSMC process used for Bonaire.

    This is for parametric yields, not defect yields.
    Functional chips that don't hit spec below the desired TDP get rejected. That's a bigger problem these days than defects.


    The shared GDDR bus is a double-edged sword. It's way easier to thrash a DRAM bus in certain situations.
     
    #3445 3dilettante, May 23, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2013
  6. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    Could it be the secret to their "very special relationship" with EA... strongarm them so the games look the same. (no, I'm not joking)
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-24-why-microsoft-wont-publish-psn-firsts
    Wasn't much of an issue with PS3/360 except for bluray capacity, but this time it's going to be a mess if they do this again.
     
  7. anexanhume

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    Do you have a link on this?
     
  8. bagofsuck

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    can they over clock the speed via firmware update or this needs to come out of the factory already overclocked? i am asking this for the simple fact that they probably don't want to be behind the competition in terms of power..
     
  9. Kaotik

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    I think you're putting far too much weight on one guys words
     
  10. James Car

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    Reason #99 to jump ship.

    Weak specs are going to be very difficult to hide and devs may find it easier to ignore the platform if userbase growth doesn't perform as expected.

    The only way I could see MS enforce this is to put frame rate caps and fixed resolution caps. I'm not sure how they can enforce this on a platform they don't own though. :???:
     
  11. Exophase

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    By look the same you mean visually identical - same resolution? That'd never fly for games with dynamic resolution, they'd have to disallow that entirely.

    This last generation was interesting, Sony and MS ending up with nearly equal shares for much of their lives was rather unprecedented. The equilibrium pushed back on software and made most things cross platform. But if the hardware sales don't balance out that software equilibrium could break and any side falling behind would have less room to make demands..
     
  12. 3dilettante

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    This has data at 65nm, which is about where defects and parametric yield loss reached equivalence.
    I haven't found the slide deck for smaller nodes, where the crossover was complete.

    http://chipdesignmag.com/display.php?articleId=398
     
  13. bkilian

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    Wow, just noticed the tags on this thread. "belldandy killian"?

    I love the wasaaaaapi one though.
     
  14. Laa-Yosh

    Laa-Yosh I can has custom title?
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    You honestly believe that Sony won't have any such policies of their own??
     
  15. anexanhume

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    Thanks. Bring on 450 mm wafers.
     
  16. Gradthrawn

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    The five game states:

    I like the sound of terminated. That allows for the per game resume we've been speculating about ever since interference started talking about the XBO using self contained VMs for games. I'm going to assume its writing its last state to the HDD (there's no where else safe to store it, I don't think). It would still have to read 5 GB from platter into memory but then you're right back in the action. Very nice. Not sure I understand the use case for the constrained state, though. I assume Apps have access to the Apps OS resources only (2 cores, 3 GB, 10% GPU) so there should be no need (or even possibility) for them to eat up more resources. But apparently its pulling an entire Jag Compute module and half the GPU for something (I can only presume the Apps OS).

    EDIT

    Ah, looks like constrained may be for snapping in live TV and Skype calls:

    Constrained makes more sense than suspended with the game still on screen and the other content snapped in.
     
  17. Scott_Arm

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    I'm failing to understand the purpose of the constrained state if you cannot interact with the game? What is the point of leaving it running? Why not just suspend it instead? Kind of kills the idea of multitasking as well, if this is the state your game is put into when you run Skype at the same time, for example. I'd have to see an explanation of the usefulness of this.

    The terminated state is nice. Basically a VM snapshot, I guess. You just resume, like you were playing a movie where you left off. No menus to jump through.
     
  18. Xenus

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    10% of the gpu being boxed off kind of makes all the talk about upping the clocks pointless as it be just getting back to where they started at this point.
     
  19. aaaaa00

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    Suppose you got a call from someone important, and you decided to expand the Skype call fullscreen.

    You don't want to be kicked off a multiplayer server just because you decided to answer a Skype call, do you?
     
  20. Kb-Smoker

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    Seem that constrained state is for when the game is running in the background doing something. Like you are watching TV while the game is matchmaking.
     
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