Xbox One (Durango) Technical hardware investigation

[dobwal]

So it needs to support all of the same things that the PS4 does in low power mode / without disturbing the main hardware, maybe its using the exact same thing, the ATI/AMD video decoding blocks and the small arm CPU that is latched onto there APU's.

The setup up makes sense. The success of smartphones and tabs have influenced low power processors like Apple's Abased chips and chip designs like Snapdragon and Tegra. It's a high volume/high margin business that encourages high performance feature rich hardware and a mature development ecosystem. The low power proficiency is driven by the need to accommodate small batteries while still encouraging as much functionality as possible.

Why spend on R&D and transistor logic so highend chips can perform in this low powered state when these mobile designs are a great companion chip due to their low power requirement. Powerful enough to easily handle numerous roles while being cheap to manufacture. Look at the AppleTV its a $99 product that's profitable and whose functional ability is limited by its software. The Abased chips used provided way more functionality when used in the iphone.

 

[dobwal]

As mentioned before, Yukon and that roadmap was only one of many competing visions so they didn't 'simply abandon their whole vision' since it was never their whole vision.

And more than likely multiple configs were competing on performance and not vision. Visions aren't created overnight as its an evolution of your ecosystem's direction over time. Hardware design basically starts over every generation. Visions are usually refined over time. What we are seeing now is the continuation of vision that for MS started on the Xbox.

 

[BRiT]

*AHEM* Keep non-technical non-investigative posts out of this thread unless you want a ban.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Durango sound block

http://www.vgleaks.com/durango-sound-of-tomorrow/

I see mentions of picture-in-picture and backgrounding apps. Don't know much about the actual audio side of things, but there are some hints to other aspects of the system. No DAC? Digital audio output only.

 

[Gradthrawn]

No DAC? Digital audio output only.

I thought that was strange. I suspect they mean audio can now follow a digital only path. Otherwise, there would be no component/composite support. I could see dropping composite (why are you laggards playing in SD?) but dropping component at this point would be a bit premature, I think. However, I have no access to MS' internal data which would almost assuredly tell them how many of their (connected) 360 users are using the various output methods. The statement they make, though, is pretty darn conclusive:

Durango’s audio output pipeline eliminates the DAC (digital-to-analog converter) found in previous generation consoles. All audio is output strictly in the digital realm either through HDMI 1.4a or as S/PDIF optical output.

The "all audio output" part would clearly eliminate my theory. But that seems like quite a bold move.

 

[mrcorbo]

I'd be interested to know if the 48kHz sample rate is an absolute system limitation or whether it only applies to audio processed through the hardware processing pipeline. I expect support for higher sample rates up to the limit of the HDMI standard to be possible, but it would be nice to know for sure.

I'd also like to know if the downsampling to stereo for headsets implements any form of virtual surround.

 

[Rurouni]

I thought that was strange. I suspect they mean audio can now follow a digital only path. Otherwise, there would be no component/composite support. I could see dropping composite (why are you laggards playing in SD?) but dropping component at this point would be a bit premature, I think. However, I have no access to MS' internal data which would almost assuredly tell them how many of their (connected) 360 users are using the various output methods. The statement they make, though, is pretty darn conclusive:



The "all audio output" part would clearly eliminate my theory. But that seems like quite a bold move.

I think it's more plausible dropping the component and keeping the composite. Even going digital only is more plausible than having HDMI + component. From technical pov, having component is more logical. But from consumer pov, composite is more logical. Having no analog output for a console that should come out at the end of 2013 is very much possible and not bold at all.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I thought that was strange. I suspect they mean audio can now follow a digital only path. Otherwise, there would be no component/composite support. I could see dropping composite (why are you laggards playing in SD?) but dropping component at this point would be a bit premature, I think. However, I have no access to MS' internal data which would almost assuredly tell them how many of their (connected) 360 users are using the various output methods. The statement they make, though, is pretty darn conclusive:



The "all audio output" part would clearly eliminate my theory. But that seems like quite a bold move.

I use a good stereo amplifier and it doesn't have a digital input. Maybe my tv has an analog output. Not sure how this one plays out. Maybe they figure most people use their tv speakers or an audio system that is surround sound with a digital input. I have no idea what percentage of people would be in my situation, with a stereo system.

 

[mrcorbo]

I use a good stereo amplifier and it doesn't have a digital input. Maybe my tv has an analog output. Not sure how this one plays out. Maybe they figure most people use their tv speakers or an audio system that is surround sound with a digital input. I have no idea what percentage of people would be in my situation, with a stereo system.

Not many. S/PDIF to analog converters do exist, though.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Interesting that it mentions backgrounding streaming radio specifically. Hadn't really thought about things like using a Pandora app while playing a game.

 

[bkilian]

I'd be interested to know if the 48kHz sample rate is an absolute system limitation or whether it only applies to audio processed through the hardware processing pipeline. I expect support for higher sample rates up to the limit of the HDMI standard to be possible, but it would be nice to know for sure.

I'd also like to know if the downsampling to stereo for headsets implements any form of virtual surround.

Damn, I wish I could talk about it..

 

[Scott_Arm]

Damn, I wish I could talk about it..

I wish I knew more about digital audio, and what would be typical for on-board sound in a PC or in the current-gen consoles, so I could compare.

Edit:

I missed this part

Durango is also designed to support up to four simultaneous stereo headset outputs, each of which can represent unique multichannel mixes that are downmixed as required by the output format (for instance, a headset or the S/PDIF output).

This wording seems a little confused. 4 headsets in stereo, but it also says multichannel which usually refers to 5.1, 6.1, 7.1 and then it mentions output format being S/PDIF. So, is that 3 headsets + optical out? If you have less than 4 headsets they can support different surround mixes? It would be interesting to know if the headsets are bluetooth, wifi or some propriety wireless protocol.

 

[expletive]

Not many. S/PDIF to analog converters do exist, though.

DACs are small these days i bet they could fit one in the end of an analog audio adapter cable.

 

[XpiderMX]

I use a good stereo amplifier and it doesn't have a digital input. Maybe my tv has an analog output. Not sure how this one plays out. Maybe they figure most people use their tv speakers or an audio system that is surround sound with a digital input. I have no idea what percentage of people would be in my situation, with a stereo system.

Well, original Xbox 360 A/V cable has SD/HD video and analog/digital audio output, what if this time all is digital but the DAC is in the cable?

I mean something like this:

 

[Gradthrawn]

I think it's more plausible dropping the component and keeping the composite. Even going digital only is more plausible than having HDMI + component. From technical pov, having component is more logical. But from consumer pov, composite is more logical.

Component bridges that multi-year gap in TVs between EDTV era and early HDTV. How big is that market? I'm not sure. But given the target demographic here I would hazard more component than composite users. I'm guessing composite is available to more consumers in general, but how many of said consumers are even interested in this type of device? Regardless, composite or component only is a moot point if there's no analog audio output support!

Having no analog output for a console that should come out at the end of 2013 is very much possible and not bold at all.

It's absolutely possible, of course. But not bold? I would disagree with that. While US HDTV adoption rates (presumably with digital inputs) look quite good, that cannot necessarily be said for other markets. Specifically, going digital only for a set-top entertainment box like this could limit adoption in a lot of non-Western emerging markets (heck, maybe even Western markets to a certain extent). Perhaps they feel that would be a safe approach for various reason? Although, looking around for any relevant precedent for going digital only, I did notice that the current Apple TV, several Google TV standalone boxes and the Boxee all only support digital output. So, perhaps its not quite as bold as I orignally thought. I think its still a matter limiting your market size, though.

Damn, I wish I could talk about it..

If you can't talk about that, can you talk about any numbers or data you've seen that might lead a major platform holder (MS, Sony or Nintendo) to believe going digital only is a viable path for their next release? Or perhaps other factors that would have been taken into consideration?

 

[mrcorbo]

Damn, I wish I could talk about it..

Heh, me too. Well, hopefully the important/interesting details will be provided at some point if your NDA prevents you from doing so even post-reveal.

 

[mrcorbo]

DACs are small these days i bet they could fit one in the end of an analog audio adapter cable.

Where does it get power from?

 

[liquidboy]

New vgleak on Durango audio, created new thread.. http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=63458

 

[Scott_Arm]

Where does it get power from?

Does HDMI have pins for power? 1.5-5V range?

 

[Gradthrawn]

Does HDMI have pins for power? 1.5-5V range?

Pin 15 from the looks of it. +5 V (max 50 mA)