Xbox One (Durango) Technical hardware investigation

[Grall]

When you make a bullshit statement, I'm not sure what you expect.

It's not a bullshit statement. It's too soon for it and everyone knows it, and no credible rumors have even hinted a sniff of DDR4 anyway. All we've seen is fanboy ejaculatory speculation, and pretending as if large chunks of DDR4 going into a mass-market device is within the realm of possibilities years before the RAM is scheduled to go into mass-market production is just pontification and wrangling of semantics to the point of descending into pointlessness. When exactly has anything like that ever happened in the console business? It'd be unprescedented, and totally not in line of what we know of durango so far (which is that it is a safe, risk-free, cheapish, middle-of-the-road piece of hardware just like orbis is .)

I'd expect dual APUs like some have hallucinated before DDR4 TBH...

 

[french toast]

Oh, I completely agree, but if they're willing to throw in extras 'for free', I say more ram, more storage, more controllers, more of everything except for the price...

Brit I like your logic

 

[dobwal]

Isn't demand the biggest thing holding up DDR4 production right now? What performance advantage will the first DDR4 chips have over DDR3 rated at 2133 MT/s? Whats the point of going with even higher priced enthusiast DDR4 at 3200 MT/s when you can go GDDR5?

 

[AlphaWolf]

It's not a bullshit statement. It's too soon for it and everyone knows it, and no credible rumors have even hinted a sniff of DDR4 anyway. All we've seen is fanboy ejaculatory speculation, and pretending as if large chunks of DDR4 going into a mass-market device is within the realm of possibilities years before the RAM is scheduled to go into mass-market production is just pontification and wrangling of semantics to the point of descending into pointlessness. When exactly has anything like that ever happened in the console business? It'd be unprescedented, and totally not in line of what we know of durango so far (which is that it is a safe, risk-free, cheapish, middle-of-the-road piece of hardware just like orbis is .)

I'd expect dual APUs like some have hallucinated before DDR4 TBH...

You mean like unified gpu architecture on the 360? Or sony using xdr. Or sony using gddr5 densities that aren't available yet. It's not exactly unprecedented for consoles to either be ahead or step outside what PC's are doing. It only matters if it makes sense for them to make the move.

 

[Nisaaru]

When exactly has anything like that ever happened in the console business? It'd be unprescedented, and totally not in line of what we know of durango so far (which is that it is a safe, risk-free, cheapish, middle-of-the-road piece of hardware just like orbis is .)

And the XDR Rambus in the PS3 was a commodity item? What might be cheap now might not be cheap in 2-3 years when DDR4 is mainstream. It's up to MS to know their sweet spot.

 

[MrFox]

In 2-3 years they will already have made a new smaller SoC.
Can they use DDR3 now, because it costs less, and DDR4 for the next SoC, because it'll cost less then?

 

[dagamer]

You mean like unified gpu architecture on the 360? Or sony using xdr. Or sony using gddr5 densities that aren't available yet. It's not exactly unprecedented for consoles to either be ahead or step outside what PC's are doing. It only matters if it makes sense for them to make the move.

As far as I know, using chips of a different density doesn't require redesigning the memory controller like switching from DDR3 to DDR4. One takes a whole lot longer to do than the other.

Could it be done, sure, if it were carefully planned a long time ago, but wouldn't there be leaks about MS looking into some magical "better memory technology"? We knew for a while that Sony was interested in bumping up the PS4s RAM, first from 2GB to 4GB, and a few whiffs of 8GB just right before the reveal. From Microsoft, nothing like that. And this is where philisophy comes into play: nothing leaked from Microsoft has indicated that they want to build the big bad superbox Sony is aspiring to make.

But then again, this isn't supposed to be a versus thread.

 

[XpiderMX]

Impossible, I do not think that word means what you think it means.

The DDR4 was in the leaked doc:

http://cdn.arstechnica.net//wp-content/uploads/2012/06/xbox720specs.png

 

[AlphaWolf]

As far as I know, using chips of a different density doesn't require redesigning the memory controller like switching from DDR3 to DDR4. One takes a whole lot longer to do than the other.

Could it be done, sure, if it were carefully planned a long time ago, but wouldn't there be leaks about MS looking into some magical "better memory technology"? We knew for a while that Sony was interested in bumping up the PS4s RAM, first from 2GB to 4GB, and a few whiffs of 8GB just right before the reveal. From Microsoft, nothing like that. And this is where philisophy comes into play: nothing leaked from Microsoft has indicated that they want to build the big bad superbox Sony is aspiring to make.

But then again, this isn't supposed to be a versus thread.

I think you're seriously over stating the difficulty of implementing a different memory controller.

 

[Kaotik]

As far as I know, using chips of a different density doesn't require redesigning the memory controller like switching from DDR3 to DDR4. One takes a whole lot longer to do than the other.

Could it be done, sure, if it were carefully planned a long time ago, but wouldn't there be leaks about MS looking into some magical "better memory technology"? We knew for a while that Sony was interested in bumping up the PS4s RAM, first from 2GB to 4GB, and a few whiffs of 8GB just right before the reveal. From Microsoft, nothing like that. And this is where philisophy comes into play: nothing leaked from Microsoft has indicated that they want to build the big bad superbox Sony is aspiring to make.

But then again, this isn't supposed to be a versus thread.

MS was even rumored to use hybrid memory cubes at one point

 

[Grall]

And the XDR Rambus in the PS3 was a commodity item?

PS3 didn't use XDR years before the tech was scheduled to be put into mainstream use. That's a hell of a big difference.

 

[Sonic]

PS3 didn't use XDR years before the tech was scheduled to be put into mainstream use. That's a hell of a big difference.

You're correct. PS3 used XDR despite XDR never being put into mainstream use.

 

[GrimThorne]

I don't think so. Vgleaks specs make sense unlike this. For a moment if this is paritally correct. 1 apu for 360 bc. Instead of gddr4 it is 12 gb ddr3. It could still be very expensive. The most expensive console ever probably. Vgleaks missed 360 soc for BC. The rest I think they are right

Missed it? How do you miss a whole APU or SoC?

It's obvious that they were clueless to it's existence even as they claimed to have full knowledge of everything related to the platform. As it stands, not everyone even believes what they're now claiming anyway.

It's just more proof that no source (no matter how credible) is infallible. They've enjoyed all the hits and source nods that everyone has given them these many months, but it could be that they ran out of relevant things to share some time ago.

 

[MrFox]

Assuming devs are the leak sources... Devs wouldn't be told a single word about BC. They are told what they need to develop a game. OS features and services are probably very secret too.

(let alone the theory that leaks are voluntary and controlled to generate hype)

 

[GrimThorne]

Assuming devs are the leak sources... Devs wouldn't be told a single word about BC. They are told what they need to develop a game. OS features and services are probably very secret too.

(let alone the theory that leaks are voluntary and controlled to generate hype)

Well enough of them certainly have been stating that they don't know what final silicon is going to look like. Whether or not they're all being coyish is now literally just around the corner to being proven.

I still think that we were already given a preview of how things will look when Yukon got leaked last year. IF there is going to be a dual apu or SoC, it will probably reflect the Yukon design.

 

[Betanumerical]

The DDR4 was in the leaked doc:

http://cdn.arstechnica.net//wp-content/uploads/2012/06/xbox720specs.png

Nothing else in that document has turned out to be true so I think using it as a source is a bit sketchy.

 

[PalmiNio]

Nothing else in that document has turned out to be true so I think using it as a source is a bit sketchy.

Nothing? Would say it has pair out pretty good on the "vision".

From waht i understand the document was an internal presentation over what MS wanted their next moves to be.

The technical points feels more like a wish without knowing what 2013 would hold on technology vs price.

I still think it is possible that the will have SoC + SoC based on the price.

1 SoC for gaming + 1 SoC (the new 360 SoC) for OS/Media/Mini Games.

If the normal specs from VGleaks are true and there where nothing more, then the 499 USD pricetag does not make sense (Price tag stated by Paul Thurrott).

But 720 SoC + 360 SoC + Kinect + 8GB DDR3 + BD ODD + 1TB HDD = 499 USD, that makes more sense.

 

[Rangers]

There's not gonna be BC. It would ruin all streamlining and cleanness to the design, and plus with all this talk of new EU laws and devices all going green, the old power hogging 360 architecture being tossed in is a non-starter.

If you want to play 360 games after 2013, you'll buy a $99 "Stingray".

Look to the Wii U for why you do NOT want BC mucking up your clean slate design, lol.

 

[XpiderMX]

Nothing else in that document has turned out to be true so I think using it as a source is a bit sketchy.

I think you need to re-read the document. From the linked pic:

- 8 cores cpu
- x86
- ~2Ghz (1.8Ghz)
- The "application" APU
- The "system" chip (ARM)
- Always on

And from other pages:
- esram (p. 10)
- video engines (p. 10)
- tv web on xbox 360 (p. 15)
- tv, aps and web content on xbox 360 (p. 15)
- windows 8 on pc, xbox(p. 24)
- pc/phone companion, aka smartglass (p. 37)

 

[DopeyFish]

Nothing else in that document has turned out to be true so I think using it as a source is a bit sketchy.

ESRAM was in that doc. (On the next page)

Kinect 2 being bundled was also in that document (with rough expectations of a wider FOV and 4 player capability)

Xbox mini is there too