Xbox Game Pass, Game Pass Ultimate now Includes EA Play! [XGP, GamePass]

So for the price of 2 games, I get unlimited access to their full library all year including new releases? Works for me.
Not necessarily. It's unclear at this point how long those games will be available. For the price of two games you'll get to play those new releases, but possibly only for a month. Which may be enough for some games, but if the intention is these are long term 'career' games, you'll end up having to buy them individually to continue playing.

The potential costs here seem quite extreme, with MS looking to lose a lot of potential revenue. So they must be hoping this investment establishes the service with a hopes to move to something Netflix like for games. Or it's a test case to see how much revenue impact there is with these major titles being included.
 
Well not necessarily, but games get removed out of Game Pass due to contract expiry. That's like Netflix removing their original content off their own service. It's would be just as unprecedented. the 1P content is going to stay. Since game pass has been released there has only been 2 removals after 8 months. Most of them sports titles that got refreshed with the newer one.

To really know what the rate of return will be for any company on Game Pass we'd need access to the pay back method. But I certainly don't see costs as a major problem. Most games sell the most they will ever sell in the first 2 weeks of sales and then most games will nose dive off to nothingness. This game pass keeps the player pool high, and offers a chance at recurring revenue well past those 2 weeks and quite possibly for years with ideally a growing subscriber base as each generation goes on. It certainly great for both indie and AA type studios. AAA will find its place over time.
 
To date, Game Pass hasn't had any Day One exclusives so we can't be sure what MS's plans are. I'm referring to AzBat's quote where MS didn't commit to keeping these games in there indefinitely, so they may not even be decided yet. It's an unknown at this point.

As for costs, the lost sales of something like Halo will be millions. Who's going to spend $60 (giving MS $40+) to buy Halo when they can use Game Pass and play it? If those same people were going to buy Crackdown and Sea Of Thieves, that's millions of people not giving MS $120 because they are using the service. That's a lot of wonga! I also don't see why the game being in Game Pass keeps the interest beyond the first two weeks. If the game has longevity, it'll grow and not need a Game Pass incentive to get people to play it (Destiny, Diablo 3). If it's a short lived adventure, it'll peak and fizzle. Those short games make their money by selling at full price.

Definitely an expensive move from MS intended to grow the service. I think it's intended as a loss-leader to try and establish a new business model. If Game Pass includes Play Anywhere on PC for the same games, it's quite obvious what the intention is. ;)
 
Game Pass currently works with Play Anywhere AFAIK.

They're probably betting on folks to not bother subbing/unsubbing constantly while checking out the other games on offer. It does mean they'll need to ramp up content people will even want in the first place though. *ahem* :rolleyes:

If the game has longevity, it'll grow and not need a Game Pass incentive to get people to play it (Destiny, Diablo 3). If it's a short lived adventure, it'll peak and fizzle. Those short games make their money by selling at full price.

You'd wonder what sort of statistics they have on people's gaming libraries from their logged hours (something they already track). People likely to play a certain long-term game like Diablo or Destiny might also tend to switch it up with other long-term games to make it worthwhile to sub, even if only for a year, and then it gives enough time for other games.

Dunno.

It'll be interesting to see how the sequels to Halo & Gears will evolve. I've brought it up before, but shooters as such will need to deal with how to expand the content without throwing away all the work done on a previous game because it's a bit of a waste having to remake favourite maps all the time.

If you look at all the maps included in MCC, just imagine if the latest Halo iteration didn't just reset the gameplay population, and the MCC MP actually worked across the 4 games for people to hop into relatively seamlessly.

It's probably safe to say that no one in their right minds are staying for the *****intense***** gameplay of Halo 4 & 5 campaigns.

A huge chunk of Gears 4 maps are just remakes, and moving to Gears 5, what happens then? They'll need to decouple it to some extent. The horde mode is hugely dependent on the maps, and there are still people playing despite the drop in the series' popularity.

Thinking back to Reach and Gears 3, their campaigns had arcadey options that kept people coming back. Reach had the credits system, which included daily & weekly goals in the campaign, and folks would spend it on cosmetics (useable in MP or Firefight). Gears 3 was just competent at co-op gameplay.

There are ways to keep people on-board after finishing a 6 hour story - of course it all hedges upon competent gameplay design and not making co-op players wait 30 seconds on top of a safe respawn check (and potentially writing that isn't so off-puttingly awful and an exercise in lazy writing for oawifjdklsfaldfhla dhflakjsd fhaldfjhaldfh).


uh... where was I.
 
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To date, Game Pass hasn't had any Day One exclusives so we can't be sure what MS's plans are. I'm referring to AzBat's quote where MS didn't commit to keeping these games in there indefinitely, so they may not even be decided yet. It's an unknown at this point.

Can you quote me for a historical record? Can't remember when I posted it. As iRoboto stated there have been only 2 or so removals from the service since it started. I believe they are basically just reminding people of the cycling of content that could happen. Doesnt mean it will be frequently used. I will give MS a benefit of the doubt until they say or do otherwise. You may not want to but that's fine & understandable.

Tommy McClain
 
As for costs, the lost sales of something like Halo will be millions. Who's going to spend $60 (giving MS $40+) to buy Halo when they can use Game Pass and play it? If those same people were going to buy Crackdown and Sea Of Thieves, that's millions of people not giving MS $120 because they are using the service. That's a lot of wonga! I also don't see why the game being in Game Pass keeps the interest beyond the first two weeks. If the game has longevity, it'll grow and not need a Game Pass incentive to get people to play it (Destiny, Diablo 3). If it's a short lived adventure, it'll peak and fizzle. Those short games make their money by selling at full price.
I get where you are going with that in particular, but you're looking from the viewpoint of the risks involved with game pass. As opposed to, say what the benefits would be. If the benefits outweigh the risk postively enough to provide value for both the consumers and the company then we can assume this is why they proceeded.

There are several concerns that are real, and will likely play out. The main one, being what you wrote, try and 'bye' for $10 which you and many folks have brought up.
The opposing view is this: the hardest part for games in general, is barrier to entry. Getting people to even try your game is tough enough. Getting people to play with you is extremely expensive.
So two fold the game pass solves 2 problems:
a) Groups of friends with gamepass all have the same titles and library, that can as a group move from to game, and play whatever they want as a group. This is something that has been the case, for me for a 1 off day to play basketball say around NBA finals season is something I would never do because I don't pay $80 dollars x 8 people for the week of NBA finals. But now I can

b) Conversely with developers, it's impossible to get people to try your game because of barrier to entry, perhaps your marketing fell through, or perhaps you don't think your friends will try it out. Too much pressure on that barrier to entry to 'try' things. And so developers from this because many games today require participation in large volumes to be successful.

Having resolved those two major issues the only 2 remaining is for Microsoft:
a) How does MS profit from this, well the answer is simple. If the game pass revenue surpass traditional revenues, than it's certain more successful than if they didn't have it on game pass.

b) How does MS continually beef up game pass with more content. Game pass will have to follow in netflix's model. They'll need tons of original and 'fresh' programming to keep their audiences subscribing. And of course, there is always the idea that people would be comfortable enough to just let their subscriptions continue on. Because when you have parties, or guests, or family members, or sharing etc. There are all sorts of reasons to keep subscribed. There are many folks who subscribe to the gym and they never go. And gyms are specifically looking to sign these types of people up all the time.

Definitely an expensive move from MS intended to grow the service. I think it's intended as a loss-leader to try and establish a new business model. If Game Pass includes Play Anywhere on PC for the same games, it's quite obvious what the intention is. ;)

Perhaps? We'll know more by E3 if it's a loss leader or not. But the intentions are to broaden the service for sure. Its' one thing to be Play Anywhere on PC. It's entirely another to be able ot stream your game library to any device. Something PS Now does not offer. They only offer you their streaming catalog.
 
I wonder how close the *average* yearly attach rate of "new at retail" titles for Xbox One owners is to 2......
If it's less than 2, then it's already a profit LOL.

Another way to look at it, is that they data mined a strong correlation between MAU and profits across their whole service. The game pass is to make people to just keep coming back to use their console more and more. They've already had 8 months of data on game pass, and this was before the 'first party entry' that will happen in March.

Whether it be advertising, media, etc or what not. The more you use the console the more money they are making. The subscription point must just help alleviate the risk.
 
Can you quote me for a historical record? Can't remember when I posted it. As iRoboto stated there have been only 2 or so removals from the service since it started. I believe they are basically just reminding people of the cycling of content that could happen. Doesnt mean it will be frequently used. I will give MS a benefit of the doubt until they say or do otherwise. You may not want to but that's fine & understandable.
Sorry, it was Arnold Beckenbauer, not you. https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/2019644/

I also haven't said or assumed MS will withdraw the games after a month. I was just pointing out to those assuming those games would there indefinitely (RobertR1) that they might not. We can't be absolutely sure what MS's plans are with these exclusives. There are business arguments for and against them offering this ludicrously good value, and I've been arguing to cons as necessary to the discussion. ;)
 
They're probably betting on folks to not bother subbing/unsubbing constantly while checking out the other games on offer. It does mean they'll need to ramp up content people will even want in the first place though. *ahem* :rolleyes:

This. They're surely betting on some percent of people that will just put the thing on autopilot, and partly out of inertia never unsub or at least not for a long while. Also many of those people will probably have some sort of vague affinity for the service even if they aren't currently actively using it (I like that gamepass thing, I'll keep it) Like a cell phone bill, but cheaper.

What's that percentage, 30%, 40%?. Like I said, I assume they ran the numbers and decided it all works.

Or maybe they just looked at netflix stock LOL. The monthly price is actually very similar to Netflix.

Will be interesting one bellwether of success will be if/when Sony follows suit. I'd say Nintendo but, they hate progress.
 
There aren't really any parallel businesses. Netflix often rents cheaper stuff ($10+ movies versus $60 games) where the losses per titles are far lower. It's also mostly older stuff except their own content for which there's no other market - they aren't going from selling multiple $60 box sets to giving access to those box sets for $10 a month.

I'm sure this is a loss leader from MS. They are sacrificing short term revenue to get people onto the service, in order to grow the ecosystem and get recurring revenue. The reasons to stick with Xbox next gen will be more significant when you have that library and service behind you. What's the tie ratio? Probably is less than $120 a year average game spend so getting people onto the service probably results in more income per year per household.
 
There aren't really any parallel businesses. Netflix often rents cheaper stuff ($10+ movies versus $60 games) where the losses per titles are far lower. It's also mostly older stuff except their own content for which there's no other market - they aren't going from selling multiple $60 box sets to giving access to those box sets for $10 a month.

I'm sure this is a loss leader from MS. They are sacrificing short term revenue to get people onto the service, in order to grow the ecosystem and get recurring revenue. The reasons to stick with Xbox next gen will be more significant when you have that library and service behind you. What's the tie ratio? Probably is less than $120 a year average game spend so getting people onto the service probably results in more income per year per household.

There are major parallels. Netflix has original content (shows) and now even their own movies. This original content is highly reviewed, high end production value and often with known casts. Nothing "cheap" here at all. In similar context, 1st party games are just original content that will now also be distributed on a subscription format.

For those wanting a physical copy, you can buy box sets of Netflix original content btw. https://www.amazon.com/House-Cards-...qid=1516874067&sr=8-2&keywords=house+of+cards

So if anything, Xbox Games Pass is becoming exactly like Netflix. Lure people in with original content, give them access to a broader but older library and give them the option for physical (or digital) ownership of the original content if they like.
 
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Stuff gets rotated in and out of Netflix because a lot of it is licensed from outside content owners. The only so much Netflix wants to spend annually on content so older content makes way for new.

There is literally no point in MS rotating out its own titles. There is no logical reason to do so unless they were just offering it as a preview service. But they are not describing in that fashion. First party exclusives are a one time sunk cost so there aren't any ongoing licensing costs. Plus for games like Halo or Forza removing them could be disruptive to their communities if a significant portion is accessing those titles through game pass.
 
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If they throw Minecraft on there that will be a sign that MS is seriously committed to making GamePass a major service and a pillar of their ecosystem like Live.
 
Wonder where they sit with most publishers. At some point others (Activision-Blizzard, Bethesda, 2K etc.) will want to introduce their own, just as EA did. At that point, it might as well be a Win10 box (especially with MS shifting to Play Anywhere), and then I'd wonder if Live Gold disappears in favour of GamePass (many years later).

ahem.

:sleep:
 
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This is crazy news. I'm interested to know how this develops over the next few months.

Great news for anyone subscribed to Game Pass. Potentially concerning to any game without MT's.

But most games are going that way anyway - I had a go on Uncharted 4's multiplayer last night, and it's so littered with MT's compared to the multiplayer of Uncharted 2 that I feel a sadness deep in my soul.
 
This is crazy news. I'm interested to know how this develops over the next few months.

Great news for anyone subscribed to Game Pass. Potentially concerning to any game without MT's.

But most games are going that way anyway - I had a go on Uncharted 4's multiplayer last night, and it's so littered with MT's compared to the multiplayer of Uncharted 2 that I feel a sadness deep in my soul.

But he (The Major) didn't say: Once XGP title, permanent XGP title.
 
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