Xbox Business Update Podcast | Xbox Everywhere Direction Discussion

[arandomguy]

This was years ago but I was on a Gamepass PC trial and you has to enter in CC details for it. I can't remember exactly why but I forgot to cancel and it rolled over into a paid month with a 1 month charge. I contacted customer service via chat and they refunded the full amount, not even pro rated.

But this was just a few days into it, was way cheaper back then ad well. Also I never used it at all even during the trial. The selection let's just say on PC then was rather limited.

 

[Nesh]

afaik they don't. You can cancel the subscription at any time but you can use the service after cancelling as long as that remaining month -or months- has been paid already.

Oh then he is either lying or what he was probably doing, was finish the game, cancel the service and reactivate when he needed for the next game. I.e finish game one in 15 days and use the remaining days later for another game.

 

[rntongo]

afaik they don't. You can cancel the subscription at any time but you can use the service after cancelling as long as that remaining month -or months- has been paid already.

On a different note....

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1791524663807328666

Will be interesting to see if this turns out to be true. I think people are going to be more interested in buying the Switch 2, as well we'll see price drops for the base PS5. So its going to be a tough sell when there's a PS5 pro, Switch 2, dirt cheap PS5. Releasing a "next gen" box in 2026 is business suicide imo. Unless its some sort of OEM device. But even then it wouldnt be next gen. Next gen would require at the very minimum 32GB of unified high bandwidth memory. They'd get a bad deal on memory in 2026.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Ok because here is what I want to point out and why Gamepass may be totally broken and financially sabotage its own products.

Hellblade 2 is $50. That price includes costs and a mark up, plus expected sales to at least break even.

Game is only digital

Gamepass Ultimate offers a monthly subscription of around $16.

2 of my friends who own XBOX won't buy the game. They will only give $16 to Microsoft play it and finish it. Why pay $50 when MS offers it for $16 too. This is not the first time they did this. I am sure a lot more are doing it.

It is as if MS is sacrificing the finances of its own created content to push Gamepass, like a subsidy of some sorts. This is unsustainable.

But what makes it worse and wonder if it is true, one of the two also claims that once he plays the game, he cancels his subscription and requests refund which he gets.

And I was like? WTH?

Even if true, this stuff is a drop in the bucket. Most people don't do this.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Will be interesting to see if this turns out to be true. I think people are going to be more interested in buying the Switch 2, as well we'll see price drops for the base PS5. So its going to be a tough sell when there's a PS5 pro, Switch 2, dirt cheap PS5. Releasing a "next gen" box in 2026 is business suicide imo. Unless its some sort of OEM device. But even then it wouldnt be next gen. Next gen would require at the very minimum 32GB of unified high bandwidth memory. They'd get a bad deal on memory in 2026.

How could you possibly know that. LOL

The hyperbole is amazing sometimes. "Suicide"? MS? I don't think so. We don't even know what the hardware is and what the target demographic is yet and everyone is worried that the sky is falling. It's hilarious.

 

[rntongo]

How could you possibly know that. LOL

The hyperbole is amazing sometimes. "Suicide"? MS? I don't think so. We don't even know what the hardware is and what the target demographic is yet and everyone is worried that the sky is falling. It's hilarious.

Its my analysis. They're struggling to sell Series consoles. Why not focus on delivering more software that sells before introducing another box? As well as I mentioned in my response(which you glanced over), launching in 2026 what is defined as a next gen console would require a system with at least 32 GB of unified high bandwidth memory. Its going to be an expensive machine to release early tbh and I'm not aware of any software in the pipeline that will differentiate it from the current gen systems. We're going into the second half of the current gen where console prices are going to drop and people who are still on their PS4s and Xbox Ones are going to move over. I think most people are just going to buy cheaper PS5, PS5 pro, Switch 2 and maybe the Series X if MS does a price drop to match the coming base PS5 price drops.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

They are delivering more software. This year's lineup seems incredible. I find it hard to believe you didn't know that. I believe you do know it, but it doesn't figure into your "Xbox is failing" narrative.

Btw, a new system might not need 32 GB of RAM. The S will be $199, the X will be $399 and the Next will be $599. Keep on rolling.

I do realize the main disconnect is that you have this funny issue with multiple configs even though there are 100s of PC configs. For some reason you just can't wrap your head around MS supporting S, X, and Next at the same time with their 30 dev teams and tools. It makes no sense to me so I'll move on.

 

[rntongo]

They are delivering more software. This year's lineup seems incredible. I find it hard to believe you didn't know that. I believe you do know it, but it doesn't figure into your "Xbox is failing" narrative.

Btw, a new system might not need 32 GB of RAM. The S will be $199, the X will be $399 and the Next will be $599. Keep on rolling.

I do realize the main disconnect is that you have this funny issue with multiple configs even though there are 100s of PC configs. For some reason you just can't wrap your head around MS supporting S, X, and Next at the same time with their 30 dev teams and tools. It makes no sense to me so I'll move on.

Well look at it this way, if they release a next gen box in 2026 and it performs well we all benefit. If they release a next gen box in 2026 and its a failure then maybe they look at what constructive criticism is out there. You think I’m just pushing a narrative but there is empirical data backing up that theres quite a lot of negative sentiment around Xbox both amongst consumers and devs. The people who like Xbox the most are the ones who give constructive criticism when there’s negative sentiment

 

[eastmen]

Will be interesting to see if this turns out to be true. I think people are going to be more interested in buying the Switch 2, as well we'll see price drops for the base PS5. So its going to be a tough sell when there's a PS5 pro, Switch 2, dirt cheap PS5. Releasing a "next gen" box in 2026 is business suicide imo. Unless its some sort of OEM device. But even then it wouldnt be next gen. Next gen would require at the very minimum 32GB of unified high bandwidth memory. They'd get a bad deal on memory in 2026.

Just moving from zen 2 to zen5/6 would be a major generational change in cpu performance. if they can put in rdna 5 it be an even bigger jump. Sprinkle in a NPU for AI and a helping of ram and you could have a large leap from the ps5/ps5 pro. Add in games that take advantage of the NPU for games that you can't get on the other platforms and have the 32 first party studios release games and boom.

 

[metacore]

Its my analysis. They're struggling to sell Series consoles. Why not focus on delivering more software that sells before introducing another box? As well as I mentioned in my response(which you glanced over), launching in 2026 what is defined as a next gen console would require a system with at least 32 GB of unified high bandwidth memory. Its going to be an expensive machine to release early tbh and I'm not aware of any software in the pipeline that will differentiate it from the current gen systems. We're going into the second half of the current gen where console prices are going to drop and people who are still on their PS4s and Xbox Ones are going to move over. I think most people are just going to buy cheaper PS5, PS5 pro, Switch 2 and maybe the Series X if MS does a price drop to match the coming base PS5 price drops.

Soon after ps5Pro will land, i fully expect Scorpio style executives on black background video hyping their next "console" strategy and rallying remaining ambassadors. XboxPc console, meeting consumers where they are, greatest leap... and all sorts of convenient doublespeak.

2027 comes and given silicon and gamedev realities all this materialises as cross gen ports, smallest leap ever for general and frankly enthusiasts circles. If hardware is third party, price for performance ratio will inevitably go down, not differing from standard pc, but marketing will somehow imagine this as greatest leap.

Few quarters later " you know what console business is really hard" meeting consumers where they are, no growth etc.

After 25 They have not realised that successful consoles offered, strong exclusive software support , great price for performance or in general, something beyond what general computing platform can provide, innovative control, standardised experience . Consoles are dedicated devices, not only locked pc connected to tv and obviously this is absolutely alien concept to their corporate profile. They were hoping to grow xbox brand to such strength that one day muddy the watter and change this but it didn't pan out. This lack off focus as perceived from outside is echos of all that.

 

[XboxKING]

Ok because here is what I want to point out and why Gamepass may be totally broken and financially sabotage its own products.

Hellblade 2 is $50. That price includes costs and a mark up, plus expected sales to at least break even.

Game is only digital

Gamepass Ultimate offers a monthly subscription of around $16.

2 of my friends who own XBOX won't buy the game. They will only give $16 to Microsoft play it and finish it. Why pay $50 when MS offers it for $16 too. This is not the first time they did this. I am sure a lot more are doing it.

It is as if MS is sacrificing the finances of its own created content to push Gamepass, like a subsidy of some sorts. This is unsustainable.

But what makes it worse and wonder if it is true, one of the two also claims that once he plays the game, he cancels his subscription and requests refund which he gets.

And I was like? WTH?

Looks like the joke is on your frIends; Microsoft is allowed to say that in 2024 they had subscriber growth, if a person uses the service for as much as a single day; that person was a subscriber in that year

 

[rntongo]

Soon after ps5Pro will land, i fully expect Scorpio style executives on black background video hyping their next "console" strategy and rallying remaining ambassadors. XboxPc console, meeting consumers where they are, greatest leap... and all sorts of convenient doublespeak.

2027 comes and given silicon and gamedev realities all this materialises as cross gen ports, smallest leap ever for general and frankly enthusiasts circles. If hardware is third party, price for performance ratio will inevitably go down, not differing from standard pc, but marketing will somehow imagine this as greatest leap.

Few quarters later " you know what console business is really hard" meeting consumers where they are, no growth etc.

After 25 They have not realised that successful consoles offered, strong exclusive software support , great price for performance or in general, something beyond what general computing platform can provide, innovative control, standardised experience . Consoles are dedicated devices, not only locked pc connected to tv and obviously this is absolutely alien concept to their corporate profile. They were hoping to grow xbox brand to such strength that one day muddy the watter and change this but it didn't pan out. This lack off focus as perceived from outside is echos of all that.

Spot on.

Soon after ps5Pro will land, i fully expect Scorpio style executives on black background video hyping their next "console" strategy and rallying remaining ambassadors. XboxPc console, meeting consumers where they are, greatest leap... and all sorts of convenient doublespeak.

2027 comes and given silicon and gamedev realities all this materialises as cross gen ports, smallest leap ever for general and frankly enthusiasts circles. If hardware is third party, price for performance ratio will inevitably go down, not differing from standard pc, but marketing will somehow imagine this as greatest leap.

Few quarters later " you know what console business is really hard" meeting consumers where they are, no growth etc.

After 25 They have not realised that successful consoles offered, strong exclusive software support , great price for performance or in general, something beyond what general computing platform can provide, innovative control, standardised experience . Consoles are dedicated devices, not only locked pc connected to tv and obviously this is absolutely alien concept to their corporate profile. They were hoping to grow xbox brand to such strength that one day muddy the watter and change this but it didn't pan out. This lack off focus as perceived from outside is echos of all that.

@Johnny Awesome You should really read this part. MS Releasing a next gen console in 2026 will ram straight into this scenario. It will play titles just marginally better than a PS5 pro and yet will be a very expensive fixed hw system. Most new gen releases these days have to be cross gen because of changes in tech and industry. Releasing in 2026 means having the longest cross gen period for a new console and the consumers will punish MS for this. Of course they could put billions into this new system to make it more powerful than anything Sony releases at the end of 2027 but I doubt that will happen if they had to pinch pennies on the RAM of the Series S. Someone in the Finance department will veto such a decision. I honestly think December 2027 is the earliest time you can release a real generational leap worth moving to without breaking the bank. I think GDDR7 will have been out for about 3 years. But releasing in 2026 means GDDR7 will have been out for about 2 years. It would be quite expensive to pit a next gen system against a PS5 pro without the software catalog to back it up. As well consider that currently there are alot of people on both Xbox and Playstation who feel they havent gotten enough titles on their system. Sony is aiming to push this in the second half and MS will completely miss the boat if they simply release a new box and then start telling consumers "Sorry we haven't released any titles that show off the generational leap of the new system but starting 2027 or 2028 we will start having regular releases of cross gen titles that reveal the true power of our next gen system"

 

[Nesh]

Looks like the joke is on your frIends; Microsoft is allowed to say that in 2024 they had subscriber growth, if a person uses the service for as much as a single day; that person was a subscriber in that year

But that's irrelevant. My friends give no shits how MS interprets the numbers to give a better picture for PR purposes or to appease the ears of the shareholders.

All my friends want to do is maximize their value.

For MS what really matters is money and for business money talks. But MS receives a fraction for a $50 game and the GP growth is not actually real. Therefore the joke is on MS.

 

[see colon]

I think most people are just going to buy cheaper PS5, PS5 pro, Switch 2 and maybe the Series X if MS does a price drop to match the coming base PS5 price drops.

Microsoft doesn't usually sell 2 generations of consoles at the same time. Sony, however, does. It's part of the reason why PS2 is the best selling console of all time, they were still actively selling it when PS3 was out. So I'm doubtful there will be cheaper Series X consoles to buy. And I think, perhaps, that a price increase will probably match whatever PS5Pro is, and assuming full backwards compatibility, will occupy much the same role except that developers can target the high end spec and ignore Series S.

 

[eastmen]

Microsoft doesn't usually sell 2 generations of consoles at the same time. Sony, however, does. It's part of the reason why PS2 is the best selling console of all time, they were still actively selling it when PS3 was out. So I'm doubtful there will be cheaper Series X consoles to buy. And I think, perhaps, that a price increase will probably match whatever PS5Pro is, and assuming full backwards compatibility, will occupy much the same role except that developers can target the high end spec and ignore Series S.

If we get a Xbox next in 2025/6 then why wouldn't they have a two tier launch like they did with the series ? A 2025/2026 console at xbox series x performance but with new zen/rdna could actually be cheaper to produce than the current ps5/xbox series x

 

[rntongo]

Microsoft doesn't usually sell 2 generations of consoles at the same time. Sony, however, does. It's part of the reason why PS2 is the best selling console of all time, they were still actively selling it when PS3 was out. So I'm doubtful there will be cheaper Series X consoles to buy. And I think, perhaps, that a price increase will probably match whatever PS5Pro is, and assuming full backwards compatibility, will occupy much the same role except that developers can target the high end spec and ignore Series S.

MS was also still selling the Xbox 360 after the launch of the Xbox one. As we go into the second half of the current gen Sony is going to pivot the PS5 as the cheapest console you can buy and try to bring it down in cost and price as much as possible as well as since PS4 production likely ended last year. For perspective the lowest quarters of Xbox Series sales is equivalent to more than a years worth of PS4 produced. Last figures I can find online was 1 million PS4s produced in 2022 due to shortages of PS5s. So I dont think considering PS4 production or sales figures are material at all. Maybe considering the adoption rate of the PS5 from the larger PS4 install base.

So I'm doubtful there will be cheaper Series X consoles to buy. And I think, perhaps, that a price increase will probably match whatever PS5Pro is, and assuming full backwards compatibility, will occupy much the same role except that developers can target the high end spec and ignore Series S.

I agree MS may decide to market the Series X as an alternative to the PS5 pro but I dont think they will price match and here's why; We know MS is already in the process of building a cheaper discless Series X according to FTC leaks. I think this one will sell well and see price reductions as the gen progresses. They should be launching it sometime this year as well. Considering how much they've not invested in cost cutting the Series X like Sony has done with the PS5, I think this all but guaranteed to increase the margins on the Series X. I think $399 will be the price of the discless Series X since they already dropped it to $449 and the BOM is lower due to lower storage, APU and memory costs in general. They'll see further cuts going to a newer node like Sony did with the PS5 as well as a smaller form factor.

But I could be wrong as well. I think we're going to see the slimmer discless Series X next month in June.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If we get a Xbox next in 2025/6 then why wouldn't they have a two tier launch like they did with the series ? A 2025/2026 console at xbox series x performance but with new zen/rdna could actually be cheaper to produce than the current ps5/xbox series x

Interesting proposition. Who says it's a next gen? Could be a new console, not intended as a generational leap, but a refresh. New and better, but not Whole New World. Or, they could have non-generational spec advancement with a next-gen something else, like...Kinect 3. Or whatever. But some real USP. Just selling another console like PlayStation hasn't done MS particularly well, while Nintendo's reinvention has worked incredibly well most of the few attempts.

 

[Nisaaru]

Interesting proposition. Who says it's a next gen? Could be a new console, not intended as a generational leap, but a refresh. New and better, but not Whole New World. Or, they could have non-generational spec advancement with a next-gen something else, like...Kinect 3. Or whatever. But some real USP. Just selling another console like PlayStation hasn't done MS particularly well, while Nintendo's reinvention has worked incredibly well most of the few attempts.

Afaik they killed the "refreshed" console that was leaked in the trial.

 

[rntongo]

Just moving from zen 2 to zen5/6 would be a major generational change in cpu performance. if they can put in rdna 5 it be an even bigger jump. Sprinkle in a NPU for AI and a helping of ram and you could have a large leap from the ps5/ps5 pro. Add in games that take advantage of the NPU for games that you can't get on the other platforms and have the 32 first party studios release games and boom.

Yes a Zen 5/6 CPU would be a true generational leap(Actually there's recent leaks about Zen 6), as well an RDNA 5 GPU would be a decent leap but I think memory would be the biggest bottleneck if they released in 2026. My other concern would be the support from devs. I think a 2026 launch would require devkits ready by end of 2025 as well. Just seems like a super tough endeavor. But if they pull it off well and good. Xbox deserves a win.

Afaik they killed the "refreshed" console that was leaked in the trial.

I thought they just clarified that it wasnt the final design. Wasnt entirely sold on the trash can design to be honest. I want an add on for a disc tbh.

 

[RobertR1]

Dear lord, please figure out how to get beta branches on Gamepass. Having to wait for early access games for ages to get updates on XBL (Manor Lords) is painful.