Xbox Business Update Podcast | Xbox Everywhere Direction Discussion

[Johnny Awesome]

I love your idea for perks, but will 3rd party pubs play ball?

I agree that AAA content might only get them so far, but that theory hasn't really been tested yet, unfortunately.

 

[Cyan]

Of course it is. Xbox is the REASON for GP being at 30 million subs. Killing Xbox would kill GP. The problem with GP adoption for MS so far as I see it:

1) PC adoption is too low. Xbox GP is likely 20+ million of the 30 million subs. PC should be at least 10 million higher by now (ie. 40 million total subs).
2) The desire to have GP is strong among the existing Xbox fan base, but not strong enough to drive hardware sales to people who aren't already in the Xbox ecosystem.

The solution to both of these problems is: More AAA content. I believe that Starfield's release began a stream of AA+ content (8/10 stuff) that is evolving into AAA content.

Starfield and Forza Motorsport were a good start, followed by Diablo IV, Hellblade 2, FS2024, Ara, Towerborne, Avowed, Indiana Jones, CoD Black Ops, and Starfield Shattered Space. That's a stellar 1st party lineup this year. If GP continues to have years like this then MS just might get subscriber growth going again.

Btw, people talk about "black hole" games like CoD, but I know some GP users where GP IS the black hole. They couldn't even imagine going back to buying individual releases. MS needs to hook more subscribers like that.

that's the question lingering..., how do they keep the loyal Xbox fans? By creating a new Xbox, the loyal fans would get it and would help the growth of gamepass. But that's a catch 22, the Xbox would be fighting an uphill battle once again. Adding oem xboxes to a "regular" Xbox would help to open the pc market, or maybe they could just unify everything and creating an oem consolePC that's easy to use for the most loyal fans and that's it.

Phil Spencer hinted at something that I find very interesting, talking about Epic GAmes Store and itch.io when he talked about the Lenovo Legion Go. Imho, gamepass has some great games and I'd happily keep the subscription forever if they added small indies, shmups, card games, etc, etc, not only very popular games. Indiegala games, humble bundle, etc, could be also interesting.

 

[rntongo]

I think a lot of analysis would require Xbox to release actual unit sales for the Series X and S, as well as production numbers. I think those would be very interesting to look at. Sony just released their figures and you can tell they're doing well.

What I really wonder is why MS just doesnt do what worked well with the 360 gen and maybe add a handheld device of the sort. They're too stuck going in 360 degree directions stepping on rakes in all directions. Instead of following a tried and tested business model(Xbox 360). They focus too much on diversionary points about cloud, platform, subscription, yet consumers dont actually care about that. Consumers want to play fun titles that just work, and are released on time.

 

[eastmen]

Games with years of development, already targeting 3 (soon 4) consoles to begin with and often PCs.

You already can't afford to program in a fragile way on a multiplatform title.

And yet the common believe is that the Series S is one system too much for developers to target properly.

 

[eastmen]

that's the question lingering..., how do they keep the loyal Xbox fans? By creating a new Xbox, the loyal fans would get it and would help the growth of gamepass. But that's a catch 22, the Xbox would be fighting an uphill battle once again. Adding oem xboxes to a "regular" Xbox would help to open the pc market, or maybe they could just unify everything and creating an oem consolePC that's easy to use for the most loyal fans and that's it.

Phil Spencer hinted at something that I find very interesting, talking about Epic GAmes Store and itch.io when he talked about the Lenovo Legion Go. Imho, gamepass has some great games and I'd happily keep the subscription forever if they added small indies, shmups, card games, etc, etc, not only very popular games. Indiegala games, humble bundle, etc, could be also interesting.

You certainly wont keep loyal xbox fans if you provide no exclusive games to the hardware and just put it on all other platforms. People will just go to the other platforms in which MS doesn't keep a 100% of game pass revenue nor would some of them allow game pass on them at all.

So if every xbox game is day and date on ps6 and all xbox fans have a choice between ps6 with all exclusive playstation games and all xbox games or a new xbox with just xbox games and game pass many will choose the ps6.


Game pass has a ton of smaller games and are getting more and more every day. If you want to see other smaller games they do send out survays when you can request them.

 

[MfA]

The only thing which hurt their market share was Microsoft not being great at picking exclusives this gen and the tension between PC and xbox. In the hey days they favoured xbox over PC, but Windows is a core product, xbox was only ever a dangerous hobby.

They need to find a better way to unite them, even if xbox becomes a niche device with expensive higher end models, that could still work out for Microsoft.

Ideally xbox OS becomes something that can run on laptops too. So you can get a 500€ xbox set top box, a 1000€ laptop or a 1500€ prebuilt PC, all able to get xbox games designed to run on TVs and played with controller ... or seamlessly switch to normal windows. For the set top box, normal windows could be offered as a paid option.

 

[Cyan]

Game pass has a ton of smaller games and are getting more and more every day. If you want to see other smaller games they do send out survays when you can request them.

they don't have enough smaller games, or from enough genres, there are many masterpieces there imho. You have Steam just take a look performing a search at the amount of games of a certain genre that it has. Thanks for the tip about surveys, had forgotten about those. I used to send them feedback on how the app needed improvements.

The only thing which hurt their market share was Microsoft not being great at picking exclusives this gen and the tension between PC and xbox. In the hey days they favoured xbox over PC, but Windows is a core product, xbox was only ever a dangerous hobby.

that was the issue with Microsoft when it came to gaming. They left Windows, the best OS for gaming, in limbo. They are on track to fix it but they have a lot of catch up to do.

Their catalog of games is really good. The forward compatibility team could just add great games to Gamepass like Forza Horizon 2, which after 10 years it still looks incredible, and many others like that. Not just the next big exclusive day one.

They could also look into legal emulation, as Phil Spencer hinted at time ago, of machines that are no longer sold nor exist, like the MSX, which used an OS made by them.

I'd love to play games like Penguin Adventure myself or with my nephews. Or emulation for the Turbografx (PC Engine) and its many great shmups. Same with the Sharp X68000 which also has some great games and also great shmups. Amiga, Commodore 64, Amstrad....

For users like me who like to tinker, it can get also tiresome to set up many emulators, not to mention you can lose all that work if you format the disk.

There are frontends for that, but it isn't the same. They could integrate that in PC gamepass, for easy of use. They have a plethora of possibilities in Windows, they never realised.

 

[rntongo]

The only thing which hurt their market share was Microsoft not being great at picking exclusives this gen and the tension between PC and xbox. In the hey days they favoured xbox over PC, but Windows is a core product, xbox was only ever a dangerous hobby.

I agree this gen they have been terrible at picking titles but when you consider the Series X didnt launch with a single next gen title, they didnt even try tbh.

The reason they(Seamus and Ed) favoured Xbox over PC was the realization that creating a gaming platform for multiple configs of hw had some cons which could be overcome by making a fixed system like Sony had done. It was all marketed to Bill Gates as creating a system that would take over the living room before Sony did. So they(Seamus & Ed) had made Sony a boogeyman inside MS and led Bill Gates to accept the Xbox which at its core was a love letter to gaming. The culmination of these efforts was the 360. Before the clueless Don Mattricks came in to fulfill the goal to "take over the home", which really was just made up by Ed Fries and Seamus Blackley in the first place.

They need to find a better way to unite them, even if xbox becomes a niche device with expensive higher end models, that could still work out for Microsoft.

I agree with this. I think they need to create a single console per gen with a midgen refresh and a handheld midgen as well. Put a focus on picking better AAAs and managing the scope so they can be released on time. Then ensure that all these games are made available to PC on suitable times. Some can be day and date, others could wait maybe 6 months. But day and date for every single Xbox title just hasnt worked out quite well. Imagine Halo launched with so much missing from the game.

Sony's recently announced strategy makes a lot of sense when you think about it. Live Service games for the most part will be day and date PC and PS5 but their other games will come to PC well after they've sold well enough on the PS5. And in turn the midgen period gives them a chance to lure in PC gamers as the base console becomes cheaper and the midgen refresh maintains the profit margins. MS is trying to reinvent the wheel instead of investing appropriately into the Xbox and PC ecosystem, they're trying to merge them without considerations for the technical hurdles. So they end up failing to meet all the expectations and focus too much on platform instead of the actual games.

Ideally xbox OS becomes something that can run on laptops too. So you can get a 500€ xbox set top box, a 1000€ laptop or a 1500€ prebuilt PC, all able to get xbox games designed to run on TVs and played with controller ... or seamlessly switch to normal windows. For the set top box, normal windows could be offered as a paid option.

I think this will be interesting to see but the execution has to be flawless. Anything less than that and people will just gravitate to PS5/6 and PC with Steam. There's no incentive to own an Xbox when their main titles(Halo infinite, Starfield, Redfall) release half baked on multiple platforms. Why buy a laptop with Xbox OS if you can buy a PS5 and a PC with Steam? You get all the exclusives on the PS5 and you can either buy the MS games on Steam or pirate them on the PC.

 

[metacore]

What I really wonder is why MS just doesnt do what worked well with the 360 gen and maybe add a handheld device of the sort. They're too stuck going in 360 degree directions stepping on rakes in all directions. Instead of following a tried and tested business model(Xbox 360). They focus too much on diversionary points about cloud, platform, subscription, yet consumers dont actually care about that. Consumers want to play fun titles that just work, and are released on time.

Just that is waste of time for Satya. To much effort for too little gains and new " territories" dominated.

 

[Cyan]

Instead of following a tried and tested business model(Xbox 360). They focus too much on diversionary points about cloud, platform, subscription, yet consumers dont actually care about that. Consumers want to play fun titles that just work, and are released on time.

what do you mean by the X360 model unless I am missing something? Honest question. You define the X360 model and I thought it's what MS has been trying to do in the last 11 years. If you look at Sony, and MS trying to imitate them, that's more or less the X360/PS2 model to me -PS2 + the features added by the X360 later-.

By X360 model I mean a solid console with good GUI and features, keeping the core gamers happy.

Sony is putting up great numbers with our without exclusives, talks about prestige.

 

[Cyan]

Xbox releases on PlayStation 5 prove Phil Spencer was right: they're selling very well in the competition.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1795804609308664041

https://twitter.com/x/status/1795804633367269543

 

[Cyan]

The future of Xbox is Roseway, it seems, the code name of a consistent Microsoft social UI across devices, according to Jez Corden. So Xbox has found a way to include its ecosystem on PlayStation and Nintendo: by making use of this social interface.

According to Corden's words, Microsoft would have already begun with the tests of this new interface. In fact, there is talk of the possibility that this interface is a "Xbox Mini Guide", so that the Ecosystem of Redmond is available on any platform.

Corden says, "In fact, I have some details about how it looks exactly‘ Xbox on all screens ’now'. And I think what it is, is that each Xbox game will have a social user interface consisting of all games ... so, if you are playing Sea of Thieves, for example, on a PlayStation, you can open a mini Xbox or Something like that, something like the Battle.net [of Activision Blizzard]».

This is mentioned at the 1:30:10 mark -video should start playing there-:

 

[MfA]

Why buy a laptop with Xbox OS if you can buy a PS5 and a PC with Steam? You get all the exclusives on the PS5 and you can either buy the MS games on Steam or pirate them on the PC.

More portable, multipurpose, the xbox games are properly optimized for tv/controller gaming and the xbox certified hardware.

 

[Cyan]

More portable, multipurpose, the xbox games are properly optimized for tv/controller gaming and the xbox certified hardware.

for non Xbox devices, maybe that forward compatibility layer they are working on, could allow them to run Xbox and Windows games to run on a Playstation or a Nintendo Swtich, etc, even without the cloud.

I expect more hints of the direction they are taking during the showcase June 9th. Alas, I can't watch it. It's the european elections and I got chosen to be the president of the polling place in the little area where I live. I am not a politician, it's just a task for regular people during election days.

 

[rntongo]

what do you mean by the X360 model unless I am missing something? Honest question. You define the X360 model and I thought it's what MS has been trying to do in the last 11 years. If you look at Sony, and MS trying to imitate them, that's more or less the X360/PS2 model to me -PS2 + the features added by the X360 later-.

By X360 model I mean a solid console with good GUI and features, keeping the core gamers happy.

Sony is putting up great numbers with our without exclusives, talks about prestige.

Xbox One
Dont tell your consumers to eff off like Don Mattrick did because even a great launch line up wont save you from that.

Xbox Series X
where are the games?? Where are the games?? Where are the games??

So they have to do the core things well first. Make great games built for a fixed system then make those great games available on PC. That should be the core goal. that drives innovations. Last gen they were a home entertainment machine not a gaming console and basically told everyone to eff off. This gen they focused too much on acquisitions, preaching the gospel of platform, subscriptions, all you can eat subscription and promising games or trying to gaslight consumers into liking half baked titles. They are really allover the place with no clear goal.They just keep on springing up some diversionary thing that doesnt show a focus on games. Next month we're going to hear about this new diversionary thing(which could work or could flop).

The idea that MS is imitating Sony by releasing a console is not accurate as well. Xbox 360 was a success in its own right and the PS4 was developed to actually learn from the success of the Xbox 360. A lot of people dont know this but Sony engineers were amazed by the 360 system architecture and admitted it was an overall better machine than the PS3. Unfortunately MS decided Don Mattricking that success and not continuing with that line. There is space for two fixed system platforms in the market. In trying to "not copy" Sony, MS has given up on the good things they did on the OG Xbox and the 360 and pursued highly esoteric diversionary goals. If they fail it will end up as a 3rd party publisher. There are so many great titles that were available on the 360 and OG Xbox that Sony decided to replicate on the PS4 and PS5 and today Phil doesnt want to make those titles because it would be copying Sony. I am not surprised at all that MS's gaming division is facing some challenges.

 

[rntongo]

More portable, multipurpose, the xbox games are properly optimized for tv/controller gaming and the xbox certified hardware.

Have you considered Valve and Sony havent released multiple laptops , tvs, and desktops running their gaming OS because the games wont be as optimized? I think it could be plausible. I dont doubt MSFT could pull it off but there are some serious technical hurdles.

 

[MfA]

Valve and Sony don't have their own desktop OS. Though I think Valve should (fork ChromeOS).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Valve and Sony don't have their own desktop OS. Though I think Valve should (fork ChromeOS).

Didn't they with Steam Machines?

 

[QPlayer]

MS game dumping will start in the second half of this year. But the management no longer leaves it to chance that this will be enough to boost the Series consoles even with a significant price reduction. They make new hardware, new marketing, and target a wider audience.

What is this new hardware anyway?? I think they need to give an answer at the Xbox Games Show since people are already talking about it everywhere.

 

[MfA]

Didn't they with Steam Machines?

It's not a proper desktop environment. SteamOS would need far more work to be normie usable on the desktop.

There are three non hobbyist desktop operating systems, ChromeOS, Windows and MacOS. Even then ChromeOS is only really suitable for PWAs, for a more general purpose desktop environment with native software it needs more work.