Xbox Business Update Podcast | Xbox Everywhere Direction Discussion

[Cyan]

In the end I think that idea was doomed to fail. Reason being, as tech advanced, what as a 9.4 five years ago maybe became a 7.6. If you kept it out of ten, as increasing tech raised the ceiling on a ten, everyone's existing specs would have to be re-evaluated lower. As such, that score would go down over time for all users. "Why's my computer getting worse?!" "Oh, you need to upgrade." Not a good look.

Or, you have an uncapped score and just let inflation take its toll. "This game needs a 7.5 minimum." I'm good. "This game needs a 9.6." "This game needs a 12.5" 15.8. 32.9. 76.3.

In short, as an absolute score the numbers would just go up and up and up over time. As a relative score, user machine scores would go down over time which would be a really bad look.

I guess if you wanted to maintain that concept, you'd want to bracket it in 'generations'. Set a score for now based on XBSX. Then introduce a next-gen score at a particular date (coinciding with a new console or spec) for a new score against a new benchmark. That way the score wouldn't go down over time but would be fixed for that generation of software.

the inflation idea isn't bad, as long as you don't put much stock into it. It helps you to have a warm fuzzy feeling when your computer is up to the task. The WEI's final score was the score of your weakest link. So if your components had a 10 but your disk scored 1, the overall of your system would be 1. HDDs, no matter what, even if you had the best hard drive ever, topped at a certain score.

Xbox as the base hardware to follow requirements sounds better. Also, if they create certified builds like Xboy Performance, Xboy Sony VAIO, Xboy Quality, Xboy Path Tracing.., as long as the driver of the selected components are up to the task....

It's not like they don't have certifications already. In fact Copilot+ is a certification for certain PCs, so it's entirely possible to build upon that but for gaming.

Copilot+ PC hardware requirements - Microsoft Support

support.microsoft.com

 

[eastmen]

the inflation idea isn't bad, as long as you don't put much stock into it. It helps you to have a warm fuzzy feeling when your computer is up to the task. The WEI's final score was the score of your weakest link. So if your components had a 10 but your disk scored 1, the overall of your system would be 1. HDDs, no matter what, even if you had the best hard drive ever, topped at a certain score.

Xbox as the base hardware to follow requirements sounds better. Also, if they create certified builds like Xboy Performance, Xboy Sony VAIO, Xboy Quality, Xboy Path Tracing.., as long as the driver of the selected components are up to the task....

It's not like they don't have certifications already. In fact Copilot+ is a certification for certain PCs, so it's entirely possible to build upon that but for gaming.

Copilot+ PC hardware requirements - Microsoft Support

support.microsoft.com

The problem is that all the games would have to keep getting new scores assigned to them. Like if Doom 2016 came out and required a hardware score of 10 and in 2020 a new doom game out and required a hardware score of 10. You'd have to back assigned a new score to doom 2016. But then a person with a computer that ran Doom 2016 would have to go and get a new score for their system.

Its not an easy thing for people to do

 

[Cyan]

New speculations about the next generation of Xbox mentions a technology that is a future trend with the use of AI Accelerator (NPU), probably from AMD or Qualcomm?

The enormity of Microsoft's Windows Phone shut-down mistake is becoming increasingly clear in the AI era

Microsoft has an Apple-shaped AI nightmare on its hands, as OpenAI realizes the limits of partnering with Microsoft.

www.windowscentral.com

An interesting article by Jez Corden.

 

[MfA]

The only real use for the NPU is for frame reconstruction (DLSS&co). Even if someone makes a decent LLM for dialogue which can run from flash (think LLM in a flash, but with an LLM actually optimized for it ... not just the FFN) it probably won't require a lot of compute.

Some rendering algorithms can use large systolic arrays, but a separate NPU will have too much latency. Rendering needs something tightly integrated with shaders.

 

[eastmen]

New speculations about the next generation of Xbox mentions a technology that is a future trend with the use of AI Accelerator (NPU), probably from AMD or Qualcomm?

The enormity of Microsoft's Windows Phone shut-down mistake is becoming increasingly clear in the AI era

Microsoft has an Apple-shaped AI nightmare on its hands, as OpenAI realizes the limits of partnering with Microsoft.

www.windowscentral.com

An interesting article by Jez Corden.

This is more of a reason that Ms should keep investing into Xbox , tens of millions of consoles isn't something to pass up.

But yea I'd love for them to actually put out a windows phone using windows and not android.

 

[Nesh]

I'll be fair and say that Sony has done alright this gen with Ragnarok, SM2, HFW, GT7, FF exclusives....

Stellar Blade? Demon's Souls? Returnal? Rise of the Ronin? Rachet and Clank?

 

[Nisaaru]

The only real use for the NPU is for frame reconstruction (DLSS&co). Even if someone makes a decent LLM for dialogue which can run from flash (think LLM in a flash, but with an LLM actually optimized for it ... not just the FFN) it probably won't require a lot of compute.

Some rendering algorithms can use large systolic arrays, but a separate NPU will have too much latency. Rendering needs something tightly integrated with shaders.

I "believe" MS and mobile providers really push for NPUs to get some emotion recognition system based on Video/Audio feedback to evaluate the reaction of the user to information(ads, politics) in realtime.

That would be the next level of Big Data and we all know that MS wants a chunk of the advertising market.

MS+co. surely does not push for NPUs to make gaming smoother because that doesn't print "money".

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Stellar Blade? Demon's Souls? Returnal? Rise of the Ronin? Rachet and Clank?

I didn't list every game. Nor did I list every good Xbox game either.

 

[QPlayer]

MS+co. surely does not push for NPUs to make gaming smoother because that doesn't print "money".

Really? Just imagine a game in which the NPC characters are completely controlled by AI. This control covers interaction with NPCs and includes lifelike sound generation. Just a few examples. The NPCs have different unique personalities that the program remembers once you interact with them, so if you run into them later, it knows who you are and reacts accordingly. Conversations with NPCs can take a completely different direction depending on how you behave and what you say to them, so you can even get friends or helpers who don't just walk around based on a script or stand in one place, if you talk to them and convince them, they can also sit next to you and walk they constantly talk to you about the topics discussed, which can be anything. Just this AI NPC thing has endless possibilities for games.

Now imagine that all of this is presented during the presentation of a new generation console as a main function and games based on it are shown.
In order for all of this to work smoothly and responsively, you will need an NPU, local computing can be much faster than cloud-based computing.

 

[eastmen]

Really? Just imagine a game in which the NPC characters are completely controlled by AI. This control covers interaction with NPCs and includes lifelike sound generation. Just a few examples. The NPCs have different unique personalities that the program remembers once you interact with them, so if you run into them later, it knows who you are and reacts accordingly. Conversations with NPCs can take a completely different direction depending on how you behave and what you say to them, so you can even get friends or helpers who don't just walk around based on a script or stand in one place, if you talk to them and convince them, they can also sit next to you and walk they constantly talk to you about the topics discussed, which can be anything. Just this AI NPC thing has endless possibilities for games.

Now imagine that all of this is presented during the presentation of a new generation console as a main function and games based on it are shown.
In order for all of this to work smoothly and responsively, you will need an NPU, local computing can be much faster than cloud-based computing.

Just imagine all that in a new elder scrolls shown off at the announcement of a new console.

Think it would be pretty epic.

 

[Nesh]

I didn't list every game. Nor did I list every good Xbox game either.

No but you were selective to convey the wrong impression

 

[Nisaaru]

Now imagine that all of this is presented during the presentation of a new generation console as a main function and games based on it are shown.
In order for all of this to work smoothly and responsively, you will need an NPU, local computing can be much faster than cloud-based computing.

MS pushes NPUs for normal productivity systems. They would never push something in that market for potential gaming usage nor would businesses want to pay for that

 

[MfA]

Really? Just imagine a game in which the NPC characters are completely controlled by AI.

Non batched LLMs are bandwidth hogs and models optimized for local (LLM in a Flash) even moreso, compute is almost irrelevant.

Image processing is where NPU's can shine.

 

[QPlayer]

MS pushes NPUs for normal productivity systems. They would never push something in that market for potential gaming usage nor would businesses want to pay for that

I see it's too early to talk about it here... maybe it will be better to wait for the first game AI-related announcements and presentations. I guarantee many people will be surprised.

 

[Nisaaru]

I see it's too early to talk about it here... maybe it will be better to wait for the first game AI-related announcements and presentations. I guarantee many people will be surprised.

How useful a NPU might be for potential future games is completely irrelevant to my comment

 

[Cappuccino]

ln this day and age, I can understand Nadella in regards to Xbox, but he has to be patient because Xbox is in a difficult situation and needs a change, needs not to follow what work for others, like Nintendo does so well. Sony doesn't need to change 'cos their model works but it took them some failures to get where they are now.

optimisation could be achieved as in a console if MS finally took care of Windows regarding gaming and created a series of hardware guidelines for OEM like devices. Xbox Two or whatever console might be a given, but the rumours of a hybrid device make sense, and Microsoft has never denied them. There is hope I guess since the Surface department is in charge of future gaming hardware from MS.

I still don't get what a hybrid console does for MS. The entire console business model is selling the hardware for a loss to lock users into the ecosystem, ie the Xbox store, paying for Xbox Live, paying for Xbox certified controllers and accessories, etc. When you can buy a hybrid Xbox (which I would assume are sold at a loss) and just install Steam and never pay for Xbox Live/Gamepass or any Xbox store games, where do they make money?

Also, the Surface dept being in charge of anything is not a good sign lol. Those are probably the least reliable laptops in the Windows ecosystem. Signed, a Surface Laptop 2 owner that has had half his screen turn yellow over 6 years of ownership.

 

[MfA]

I still don't get what a hybrid console does for MS.

Align internal incentives, instead of xbox creating perverse incentives which it always has. If applied to laptops too it gives Windows laptops a shot in the arm which Microsoft sorely needs (ARM is definitely not it and AI is off to a poor start).

The entire console business model is selling the hardware for a loss to lock users into the ecosystem

The entire business model is a hobby with anti-synergy to their core business.

When you can buy a hybrid Xbox (which I would assume are sold at a loss) and just install Steam and never pay for Xbox Live/Gamepass or any Xbox store games, where do they make money?

Very few people want to sit on their couch and boot into windows even with big picture mode.

They want games optimized for console type gaming with a fool proof operating system and interface.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

No but you were selective to convey the wrong impression

Actually, I was selective to convey the right impression by listing the best games on each platform.

Stop trying to fight about absolutely everything.

 

[fehu]

There's a rumor about an halo remaster for ps5.
I don't know if it's a leak or a made up news, or even a probe news originated from Microsoft to check the public's reaction*, but what's interesting is that nobody dismissed it as an absurdity.
BTW, I've never understood halo's charme, and getting old I've moved far away from fast shooters. I just remember getting lost in under detailed small corridors, and being instakilled in multiplayer. After so many years, it's still relevant?

*
- Phil we have the response from the public!
- Aaaand?
- They don't care! We did it!
- Excellent. But they don't care about us going multiplatform, or they don't care anymore about anything that we do?
- I haven't asked...
- Don't worry, anyway is there that we are heading.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Halo is still relevant, but not as much as it used to be. Overshadowed by CoD. It might be more relevant if PS users were also given access to it.

I think this is a good move AFTER they announce something concrete about new Xbox hardware to satiate the hardcore Xbox fan AND as long as there is a decent time delay for PS.