Xbox 360 Motion Controller: Too late?

[Shifty Geezer]

Sony's problem is that their strategy (which revolves around Blu-ray) isn't working

Actually it might well be. The inclusion of BRD wasn't about winning the most console sales, but making the most money for Sony. They've secured the format. Now they need the format to take off mainstream, and they'll be set to make more money than the console could on its own.

 

[patsu]

This is what I respect about Sony. People always criticize them for copying Nintendo, but upon close inspection they never copied Nintendo's strategy. Note, that Nintendo never copied Sony's strategy either (That's why there was never and will never be any DVD or Blu-ray player in a Nintendo console). Sony's problem is that their strategy (which revolves around Blu-ray) isn't working, while Nintendo's (which revolves a Blue-ocean/Low end/new interface strategy) is working. the worst thing you can do as a business (especially in entertainment and fashion) is to copy the market leader. As you can see by the chess game above the black king has no where left to go but to copy his conqueror. That will always have him at a disadvantage. At least Sony is smart enough to follow their strategy and wait it out instead of being checkmated.

Sony's strategy takes longer to realize. It is still panning out with some limited delayed success. I don't think Sony (or MS) wants to blindly copy Nintendo per se, but there are things they can learn from Ninty, which is ease of use. Sony still has much to do in this area. Their problem is not really Blu-ray, but they have too many loose ends to tie up.

I think MS may want to grow beyond hardcore gamers. There is still room for innovation in motion sensing.

 

[liolio]

Thanks guys for yours answers...

So this gives more relief to the article... lol

On topic, not a good news for MS, there are about to release broken device that offers half of what Ninty provided more than one year earlier...

But it's not too late, if MS sc**w this up it will be too late.
It has to be there (and working...) this year Sony has a strong line up this year and early 2009 may see the release of gt5 and FF xiii.
Ms have to prevent Sony from building a huge momemtum.

 

[AzBat]

MTV has responded to criticisms about the legitimacy of their report. Check it out below...

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1585014/20080408/id_0.jhtml

Tommy McClain

 

[AlphaWolf]

MTV has responded to criticisms about the legitimacy of their report. Check it out below...

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1585014/20080408/id_0.jhtml

Tommy McClain

Their response almost falls under the category of 'duh'.

In no way does it make it clear if there has been any serious effort put into it, or if it just part of the normal process at any company producing hardware when ideas get thrown around.

 

[Squilliam]

Actually it would be good. They can snatch a few 3rd parties from the Wii and the Wii can snatch a few from the Xbox360. The only player that loses out in this arangement is Sony. All they need is a killer game or two to bundle with a controller and stick one in the Core/Elite (Because it should have everything right) Then they're away laughing.

They just have to get it done right. If they can better the Wii and provide a good controller they might get a few million Wii owners jumping ship. (It hurts my arm lol and it feels wierd not pointing it at the tv)

 

[Freak'n Big Panda]

A motion controller would be entirely useless. It would need several AAA titles backing it to make any sort of impact and I don't even know if that's possible as we have yet to see any extremely compelling support for motion controllers even on the Wii. The wiimote reinforced Nintendo's pitch that the Wii was a new idea and revolutionary. Xbox just isn't marketed in the same way and a motion controller isn't about to change that.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Would Wii Sports and Wii Play have sold if not with motion controls? I think motion controls are proven.

 

[dobwal]

They're talking about an end of year product when Wii is at 30+ million? And there's already 20+ million XB360s out there without the XBmote. EyeToy + Play shows a successful peripheral in terms of market penetration, and it was still <10% uptake. It was something new and good value. I can't see a Vii-clone working any more effectively at wooing market share than an iPod clone. Especially when the design shown looks to be at a serious disadvantage to control versus the Wiimote. It likely won't work well with tennis or boxing or baseball - things with back-swings. And as a pointer it's gimped as I mentioned earlier.

If the 360 can sustain or grow its level of sales, introducing the motion control as a fundamental part of all 360 skus would result in a level of penetration, not seen by standalone peripheral offerings. The 360 doesn't need to be a Wii-clone to sell but it doesn't make good business sense to allow a competitor to maintain an exclusive feature thats having a big impact on the market.

However, if incorporated as a core part of the 360, the peripheral wouldn't need relatively deep market penetration for devs to offer a motion control scheme along with traditional control scheme. MS, would have to go it alone in terms of software where motion control was fundamental to gameplay until that type of software showed a level of success that would warrant 3rd party attention.

Motion control on the Wii becomes less attractive the moment you can say the 360 and the PS3 offer close alternatives. Imagine stepping into the game shop and all the kiosks from all three console have people playing motion control games. If you are a prospective console buyer currently on the fence and see that scenario, it practically forces the Wii to depend more other aspects such as brand, library and price.

 

[archangelmorph]

A motion controller would be entirely useless. It would need several AAA titles backing it to make any sort of impact and I don't even know if that's possible as we have yet to see any extremely compelling support for motion controllers even on the Wii. The wiimote reinforced Nintendo's pitch that the Wii was a new idea and revolutionary. Xbox just isn't marketed in the same way and a motion controller isn't about to change that.

The Wiimote didn't 'reinforce' the Wii..

the Wiimote IS the Wii..

Without it then what would the Wii be (Gamecube 1.2..?)

Not to mention the fact that the Wii launched with no 'AAA' titles in the traditional sense & it sold bucketloads so I really don't see much strength to your arguement that MS or anyone else couldn't hit the same kind of figures whilst riding on the back of the 'Wii-age gaming' image.. All they need is some sound marketing & some Wiimote-centric party/sports games of their own that really benefit from the advanced HD rendering capabilities of the platform.. That and bundling the device, a game & the arcade pack for £159 & they could potentially drop their feet right in the centre of nintendo's market..

 

[liolio]

After all this talk, Iwould tend to think that patent issues are hurting MS.
I guess you may copy the wiimote but the nunchuck seemsmore complicated.
If somebody feels like doing some patents hunt

 

[Shifty Geezer]

However, if incorporated as a core part of the 360, the peripheral wouldn't need relatively deep market penetration for devs to offer a motion control scheme along with traditional control scheme.

sixaxis is standard with al PS3s, but how many devs are really making the most of it, let alone adding any useful measure of motion support to games? A tagged on motion-control scheme to existing games isn't going to sell XB360s to casuals any more than Halo 3 on Wiimote would sell Wii's to Wii's current market. Now *if* MS could map existing games onto motion control, so you could buy the peripheral and have existing games use it, they might get somewhere, at least in selling a peripheral to existing XB360 owners. But the absence of nunchuck type second control input puts a damper on that idea.

Motion control on the Wii becomes less attractive the moment you can say the 360 and the PS3 offer close alternatives.

Which is a big *if*. Look at how MS have competed with EyeToy... They haven't They've made nothing of the camera peripheral, and aren't showcasing motion controls through that in stores. It doesn't take a Wiimote to compete with Wii - the right hardware (which is out) with the right software (which is missing) would work. Neither company has rolled out real competitors with their existing options, despite plenty of time to knock up a Wii minigames motion-control library.

...it practically forces the Wii to depend more other aspects such as brand, library and price.

Which places Wii in a strong position! how many people looking for a portable music player shop around options, versus buy an iPod on name? And the Wii would be in a stronger position than iPod because it'll have the existing IP's people know. 'I enjoyed Wii Sports round my mate's house. I'd rather buy the product I know I like than a similar looking thing on a machine I don't really know about.'

I agree that MS and Sony can compete with Nintendo, but it'd need a major, major push. Both have put their eggs in different baskets and any movements in that direction are an afterthought, closing the door after the horses have bolted in the vague hopes a few horses remain.

 

[Freak'n Big Panda]

The Wiimote didn't 'reinforce' the Wii..

the Wiimote IS the Wii..

Without it then what would the Wii be (Gamecube 1.2..?)

Not to mention the fact that the Wii launched with no 'AAA' titles in the traditional sense & it sold bucketloads so I really don't see much strength to your arguement that MS or anyone else couldn't hit the same kind of figures whilst riding on the back of the 'Wii-age gaming' image.. All they need is some sound marketing & some Wiimote-centric party/sports games of their own that really benefit from the advanced HD rendering capabilities of the platform.. That and bundling the device, a game & the arcade pack for £159 & they could potentially drop their feet right in the centre of nintendo's market..

If anything the fact that the Wii sold bucketloads without any titles to demonstrate the Wiimote's ability to offer new and exciting gameplay just strengthens my argument. The PS3 has the sixaxis and although it's not nearly as advanced as the wiimote with regards to motion control it clearly didn't do *anything* to help push PS3s to consumers. This has to do with how the console was marketed. The Wii was always pushed as a new and exciting platform, the controllers acted as physical evidence to consumers that the Wii offered something new and different that the PS3 and Xbox 360 did not. This is just pure speculation on my part but I think if you ask the majority of Wii owners if they think the PS3 has motion control capabilities the vast majority will say no.

Seriously I'd eat my own shit if MS released a motion control peripheral that actually sold well. Their only chance would be to bundle it with all the systems and fund development of a bunch of new innovative games (maybe using head tracking or something) to push the controller. Consumers most likely wouldn't pay it any attention, or would just buy a Wii if they were interested in that sort of thing.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If anything the fact that the Wii sold bucketloads without any titles to demonstrate the Wiimote's ability to offer new and exciting gameplay.

So Sports and Play have been done before?

 

[Freak'n Big Panda]

So Sports and Play have been done before?

Sports and Play are really nothing more then tech demos. They get boring quickly and the movements quickly degrade into small flicks after the players realize it's more efficient to control game in that manner, somewhat defeating the purpose all together. I mean this is all just personal opinion but I think the head tracking stuff demoed on youtube (too lazy to find a link right now, let me know if you are interested and I can find it) is far far more interesting.

 

[patsu]

It's hard to argue that way though (It would be an endless debate). To you and me, they may be lame tech demoes. Wii Sports proved to be very attractive to a large population of people. Earlier on, folks here were saying it's the only game that sell (or it's the one that gets bundled with Wii and attach ratio was low).

To the average users, Wii Sports may be new to them. They have not experienced it before.

 

[AzBat]

Their response almost falls under the category of 'duh'.

In no way does it make it clear if there has been any serious effort put into it, or if it just part of the normal process at any company producing hardware when ideas get thrown around.

I agree it was 'duh', but we(the Beyond3D community) didn't really need any convincing in the first place. However, another site has confirmed some of the same details as MTV, as well as add some more...


http://www.8bitjoystick.com/archives/jake_xbox_360_newton_motion_sensing_controller_confirmed.php

Evidently MTV withheld some details and the site above didn't. I believe they're referencing the code-name 'Newton'. So MTV believes he's corroborating what they reported earlier.

Here's some of the details that are new...

The "Newton" controller's code name is after the physicist Sir Isaac Newton. The internal Microsoft engineering code name is for this controller is "Newton" as in Newtonian Physics relating to gravity, inertia and acceleration.
...
In 2001 Nintendo licensed patents from Gyration and used it to develop the Wii.
...
Microsoft is rumored to have licensed patents from Gyration and are using them to develop their motion sensing Wiimote controller.
...
The Newton is also going to use an LED sensor bar that can be powered by the USB ports on the 360, it is going to have an LED sensor on the front accelerometer and gyroscope sensor that can detect tilt and motion, rumble motors, wireless two way data communication with the 360, a built in Microphone for Xbox Live and voice-activated games.

Tommy McClain

 

[AzBat]

BTW, he also posted some of his theories on how Microsoft will release it and how it might look...

I have a good feeling that it might retail for 50 or 40 around the same price as a Wiimote and it might come with a 5 by 5 download code for the Conkers : Fast and the Furriest Xbox Live arcade game as a "Pack In" that can be downloaded after buying the stick much like how a code for Uno came with the Xbox Live Vision camera.
...
I have a feeling that there already is a clue about the final design of the "Newton" controller on the market right now and millions of Xbox gamers literally have it in their hands. I have a good feeling that the Xbox Play & Charge battery pack is going to fit on the bottom of the "Newton" controller. That would mean that it is going to be curved, about and inch wide and powered by two AA batteries or an equivalently recharge kit.
...
I have a feeling that the "Newton" is likely to come in multiple colors such as white (chill), Black and Pink like the Play & Charge battery packs.

Tommy McClain

 

[patsu]

Oh come on, do it already !
I need MS and Nintendo to push Sony sometimes.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Sports and Play are really nothing more then tech demos. They get boring quickly and the movements quickly degrade into small flicks after the players realize it's more efficient to control game in that manner, somewhat defeating the purpose all together. I mean this is all just personal opinion

I too didn't rate the gameplay of those titles as particularly fantastic, but I think a good 20 million people seem to disagree with us

but I think the head tracking stuff demoed on youtube (too lazy to find a link right now, let me know if you are interested and I can find it) is far far more interesting.

But that doesn't add gameplay. It adds immersion, but it's not going to change the way sticks are moved and buttons are pressed to control your character on screen. Wii's motion controls have done in various games. sixiaxis has done to lesser extent with Ducks and Warhawk's flying. Motion control could be an awesome benefit to gameplay too, as imagined in an old motion control possibilities thread on this forum.