XBox 360 launched in Japan

[AlphaWolf]

Fact is; on a single console, all developers would only have to concentrate on one single piece of hardware, reducing multi-platform targeted titles (because there wouldn't be multiple platforms) and increasing competiton among other competing developers. The end result would be better utilized hardware, period. Better utilized hardware == better value for money, and above all, because no one has to spend additional money on other hardware (let alone libraries and additional art assets), it would drive down costs further. In the end when developers have already established their libraries, engines and assets for a platform they're already getting great performance out of, they can use their time to make their software better by concentrating more on gameplay, which again equals higher quality software for all of us. Want an example? Take Jak 2 => Jak 3. Same engine, much better game thanks to them concentrating on gameplay elements.

If it were a monopoly, I am sure by now they'd have fully tapped the power of colecovision and be thinking about creating a new console. Because no one has to spend money on better hardware right?

<edit> yes its a ridiculous example, but so are all the assumptions that innovation, hardware quality, hardware advancements and prices would be in the best interests of the consumers if there was no competition.

 

[Powderkeg]

Fact is; on a single console, all developers would only have to concentrate on one single piece of hardware, reducing multi-platform targeted titles (because there wouldn't be multiple platforms) and increasing competiton among other competing developers. The end result would be better utilized hardware, period. Better utilized hardware == better value for money, and above all, because no one has to spend additional money on other hardware (let alone libraries and additional art assets), it would drive down costs further. In the end when developers have already established their libraries, engines and assets for a platform they're already getting great performance out of, they can use their time to make their software better by concentrating more on gameplay, which again equals higher quality software for all of us. Want an example? Take Jak 2 => Jak 3. Same engine, much better game thanks to them concentrating on gameplay elements...

They tried that once with the NES already, and it almost killed small-house 3rd party development entirely.

If you try to make it a single system, then the manufacturer of that system will be able to set royalty fees and release schedules that ensure their own titles are always the best sellers, and be able to limit supplies of 3rd party titles for the system. That's precisely what Nintendo did when they had a virtual monopoly in video gaming.

 

[scooby_dooby]

BTW; I'm still interested on your expertly opinion on the hardware argument... is that one still valid or have you decided to drop it, judging by the complete absence of it in your latest post? Just curious...

Just shows you don't read my threads to the end. I already discussed the hardware issue, and said that in 15-20 years when we have hit a theoretical limit in power it may not be an issue, that's a different story, but that isn't the case in the present day.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=652854&postcount=349
"As for the hardware discussion, I agree with you that when the point comes that hardware power is irrelevent, then it becomes a non-factor in this debate. But that has nothing to do with the here and now, here and now it's still a huge factor. I'm talking about now, and the forseeable future, not 15-20 years down the road."

Bobbler dropped the hardware argument, not me. Or rather, he's talking about 15-20 years awy, and I'm talking about now, so we're not really disagreeing.

Better utilized hardware != better value. Hardware that is on the cutting edge of technology, that companies are selling BELOW COST, is a better value in my books! The hardware always gets very well tapped by the end of the typical 5 year lifecycle so this really is not much of an argument. The superior hardware is the better value, you can't twist that one.

And your argument that 1st party titles would exist otherwise is flawed. They may exist but in a different form, and some wouldn't exist at all. Mistwalker would not exist if MS hadn't funnelled 40million dollars of seed money for example....because of this capital expenditure we will now get 3 new franchises as gamers that would not exist otherwise.

Other examples could be found as well, sure there are some games that woudl've been made othewise. There are others that would not exist at all, and still other that probably would've been much less than what they've become due to lack of money/resources. Hence my point there would be LESS 1st party titles, not none, just less.

This is a common sense thing, and I think when you stop arguing for the sake of arguing, and try to hear what I'm saying, you'll agree. These companies would not continue to spend the same level of capital on franchise development if there was no competition, and no market to gain.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Anyways, when are we getting new #'s on JPN?

 

[Phil]

Just shows you don't read my threads to the end. I already discussed the hardware issue, and said that in 15-20 years when we have hit a theoretical limit in power it may not be an issue, that's a different story, but that isn't the case in the present day.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=652854&postcount=349
"As for the hardware discussion, I agree with you that when the point comes that hardware power is irrelevent, then it becomes a non-factor in this debate. But that has nothing to do with the here and now, here and now it's still a huge factor. I'm talking about now, and the forseeable future, not 15-20 years down the road."

Bobbler dropped the hardware argument, not me. Or rather, he's talking about 15-20 years awy, and I'm talking about now, so we're not really disagreeing.

Actually I did, but it seems you're not, as you obviously missed my post directed at you directly further up.

This is a common sense thing, and I think when you stop arguing for the sake of arguing, and try to hear what I'm saying, you'll agree. These companies would not continue to spend the same level of capital on franchise development if there was no competition, and no market to gain.

1st/2nd party titles exist for the prime reason that because the teams are internal, the revenues are higher. Given this, even on a single console, you will see 1st party titles pushing the envelope in order to cash in on the consumers dollars. The point that they are used as system-sellers is an added benefit, yet it's not exclusive to them. There are a few games on PS2 at least that are "system-sellers" and are NOT 1st/2nd party games.

Anyway, the whole point why 1st/2nd party games were brought up again is because .Sis quoted it. I never argued the point that 1st/2nd party games don't push the envelope - the point was that the benefit of a single platform would raise the competition among developers and reduce the costs while increasing hardware utilization while likely enhancing gameplay elements further.

As I said, it's a give-take situation. There are a lot of benefits to a single platform / "format" if you want to admit it or not.


Powderkeg:

Excellent point. That's definately another drawback to a single platform. (BTW; I never said a single platform would be without drawbacks, just that there are many benefits to the consumer as well).

 

[expletive]

Anyways, when are we getting new #'s on JPN?

At this point, does it really matter? What are we going to see, 60k, 70k, 80k units sold?

IMO, the #'s only become relevant again when they release some of the other games in JP. Until then, we're talking about tens of thousands of units either way from 70k or so, not really anything to draw some conclusions from.

It is interesting that MS released those tiny Blue Dragon commercials though, i wonder if that was a last minute decision to try and maintain some level interest until the DOAs/N3s/etc

 

[Nicked]

This weeks Japan number from Dengeki.
13,500.

So +- a few k for what other tracking companies will release. MS better hope DoA4 is as effective as they need it to be.

 

[pipo]

It looks good...

Perhaps because of the revelation of the menu screens in last week's issue, Children of Mana has leapt up from 29 to 23. Mistwalker's Blue Dragon for Xbox 360 holds strong in number 8, and Dead or Alive 4 is moving up again. The public had stopped caring about boobies for a week, and now, suddenly, the desire has popped back up. Impending release does that for a game.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1931&Itemid=2&limit=1&limitstart=2

Also from that article:

Despite his wicked amounts of awesome, Hideo Kojima did not make the top spot of Famitsu's "Man of the Year" list. Which is probably okay -- were I the editor-in-chief, I'd probably resist the overwhelming urge to put him at the top every year, myself. Kojima comes in number 4, right above my Xbox Live cooperative Perfect Dark Zero partner SCEI President Ken Kutaragi, and right below the man whose finger hovers above the "Power" button on the remote control of the future, Nintendo's president Satoru Iwata.

In number one, it is my pleasure to announce, is none other than my personal pick for Man of the Year, 2005: Hironobu Sakaguchi. Sakaguchi, too, like Hino, has a life-changing connection with Yuji Horii: it was Horii's successful Dragon Quest that inspired Sakaguchi to refine, revise, and complicate the formula in Final Fantasy, his fledgling company's last-ditch effort to not die.

[snip]

Sakaguchi has been, for the last eleven years, an unrelenting risk-taker. While Dragon Quest stayed blissfully the same, Sakaguchi pulled Final Fantasy every direction except down. Battle systems changed, characters changed, themes changed. His unmaking was the Final Fantasy movie -- it scored millions of dollars of damage points on all investors, and resulted in Sakaguchi being filed away at an office in Hawaii for nearly five years.

This year, that is, 2005, he literally stood up from his desk and walked out of the company he had made. He started a new studio, one called Mist Walker, and announced two games for the upcoming Xbox 360. He is engineering his game based on one concept: that current Japanese brand loyalty is not indestructable. This assertion is not taken lightly by the stone-faced men of Japanese business-war strategy -- it's enough to get him kicked out of perhaps any major Japanese corporate meeting. Which is why, perhaps, his new company's offices are in Hawaii.

Nice read, as always...

 

[one]

This weeks Japan number from Dengeki.
13,500.

So +- a few k for what other tracking companies will release. MS better hope DoA4 is as effective as they need it to be.

Lo and behold! I doubt DOA4 can rescue it as most fans probably already bought the console with a bonus FF11 beta disc in initial units.

Media Create: Dec 12-18
http://www.m-create.com/jpn/s_ranking.html

DS 408,770
PSP 95,689
PS2 55,342
GBASP 19,098
GC 17,849
GBM 14,432
Xbox360 8,623
GBA 416
Xbox 182

 

[dantruon]

what with the DS, how come it sell more than 200k every week?. Nintendo in the handheld market is king imo.

 

[pipo]

They released a lot of AAA titles the last months. The current hit is Mario Kart.

 

[mckmas8808]

what with the DS, how come it sell more than 200k every week?. Nintendo in the handheld market is king imo.

Nintendo in the handheld market have always been king. Not to good for MS and their sales. MS better hope DOA4 can bring them over 100,000 a week in sales.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Not looking very bright, but with that launch lineup it's not a real surprise, I think we have to wait those Jrpg's to see what's going to happen. On a sidenote those DS sales numbers are amazing.

 

[one]

Not looking very bright, but with that launch lineup it's not a real surprise, I think we have to wait those Jrpg's to see what's going to happen. On a sidenote those DS sales numbers are amazing.

Are there any RPGs in the near future?
eM is not exactly hot and it's not clear when Sakaguchi's games can be released.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Are there any RPGs in the near future?
eM is not exactly hot and it's not clear when Sakaguchi's games can be released.

I don't remember/know the release dates, but I would think those games are neverthless just about the only change to get japanese people excited about X360, especially if they turn out to be good or great games.


Umm what is eM?

edit: oh it's Enchant ArM, so it doesn't look to be any good?

 

[mckmas8808]

I don't remember/know the release dates, but I would think those games are neverthless just about the only change to get japanese people excited about X360, especially if they turn out to be good or great games.


Umm what is eM?

edit: oh it's Enchant ArM, so it doesn't look to be any good?

But what if the PS3 is out by then? Why should the Japanese people jump ship?

 

[DuckThor Evil]

But what if the PS3 is out by then? Why should the Japanese people jump ship?

Well I'm not talking about jumping ships all I'm saying it might get decent success. I don't think It's even possible to beat Sony in Japan, not even close.

 

[pipo]

Well I'm not talking about jumping ships all I'm saying it might get decent success. I don't think It's even possible to beat Sony in Japan, not even close.

Indeed, that's not very likely. Although the DS shows software still sells hardware...

 

[Nicked]

Just one last batch of numbers before DoA4... (launched yesterday I do believe).
Next week will be an interesting chart, and we can all see if the Xbox360 is going to pick up with better content or if it is truly DOA.

DS 597000
PSP 161000
PS2 97000
GC 36000
SP 35000
GBM 19000
360 5000

Just dreadful. And this is at one of the busiest times of the year and the launch of a new console with a flagship Japanese title already available for it (RR6).
If it doesn't do at the very least 20k next week...

 

[mckmas8808]

Just one last batch of numbers before DoA4... (launched yesterday I do believe).
Next week will be an interesting chart, and we can all see if the Xbox360 is going to pick up with better content or if it is truly DOA.

DS 597000
PSP 161000
PS2 97000
GC 36000
SP 35000
GBM 19000
360 5000

Just dreadful. And this is at one of the busiest times of the year and the launch of a new console with a flagship Japanese title already available for it (RR6).
If it doesn't do at the very least 20k next week...

OMG!! MS better hope for the best with DOA4. IMO the 360 should do at least 40,000 next week.