Xbox 360 internal HD-DVD drive shocker?

[patsu]

How sure are you sure of?

Pretty sure ?

Any case, the hi-end 360 or Xbox PC is not gonna compete with 60GB PS3, it will be in a different market...

Not another PS3 is a computer discussion ? The way the discussion was set up, the discussion point was what if the hi-end Xbox 360 is a feature to feature, head-on competition with PS3. That's why it went that way.

 

[fireshot]

Pretty sure ?

Why are you so sure? I love to see some hard facts.
I have seen too many logical speculations(at B3D) going wayside in reality.

Not another PS3 is a computer discussion ? The way the discussion was set up, the discussion point was what if the hi-end Xbox 360 is a feature to feature, head-on competition with PS3. That's why it went that way.

Xbox PC/Xbox AV, there are several rumors of what a hi-end 360 is. Is it only gonna compete with a 60GB PS3? I don't think so but what do i know...

 

[patsu]

Why are you so sure? I love to see some hard facts.
I have seen too many logical speculations(at B3D) going wayside in reality.

Pricing and cost data are confidential. I have already explained my views given the discussion assumptions (Low-volume, feature equivalent Xbox 360 AV vs high volume PS3 60Gb). As much as I love to see the hard numbers as you, this will lead to no where.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

For high volume items, Sony should be able to save money by sourcing internally (without middlemen). For limited items like Blue laser diodes, they can also source for it internally at cost... or it's a matter of money going from left hand to right hand.

Just on this sunject alone, passing components around in the company will general net less money than selling all those components to others. If Dony produce blue lasers at cost for PS3 to keep PS3 cheap, they'll be getting less money than if they sell those lasers to others with a hefty markup because they're rare. IT's possible for Sony to dedicate huge amounts of resources from within the company to support PS3, but at what losses? Thus it's a balancing act, trying to turn a decent profit while also trying to keep the cost of PS3 down. Sure, hey'll have an production economics advantage, but it likely won't be a huge one.

 

[function]

Pricing and cost data are confidential. I have already explained my views given the discussion assumptions (Low-volume, feature equivalent Xbox 360 AV vs high volume PS3 60Gb). As much as I love to see the hard numbers as you, this will lead to no where.

Don't forget that many of the most expensive parts like the CPU, GPU and memory will already be being mass produced/bulk bought for the standard 360. A HD-DVD drive could easily be a derivative of a mass produced PC drive, and if the rumoured product were to use a 3.5" HDD that could possibly be even cheaper to buy in than MS and Sony's 2.5" drives.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I was flipping through OXM today and guess what I found in the rumour mole section:

Remember that XBOX Live/DirectTV deal a while back? Picture a $600 jet-black Xbox 360 with a built-in HD-DVD drive, and HDMI A/V port, a 250gb HDD, and Tivo-like PVR functionality. Will it happen? So says one of the moles trusted sources...

Very interesting!

 

[patsu]

Yes, they should not offer a feature to feature equivalent XBox 360. The PVR differentiator is a plus.

In this case, the DirectTV monthly fees subsize for part of the initial CPE cost. i.e., if Sony were to enter into a similar agreement, then the subsidy will apply too.

Let's see what its impact to PS3 is if/when it gets released.

 

[scooby_dooby]

The PVR functionality is already there, I use my 360 as a PVR today, the PC does the recording but it's transparant.

This is exactly what I was talking about, match, or more likely exceed the PS3 featureset at $600 and bring the competition right too them, I don't hate the idea, it will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

 

[SPM]

More add-ons and use of a PC means more expense. With an internal HD-DVD drive, I can't see why an XBox360 with HD-DVD should be cheaper than a PS3, subsidies apart, but then Sony has more reason to subsidise BD player capability than Microsoft has to subsidise HD-DVD. What is more Sony makes better use of the BD drive since it will be used for games as well.

As for PVR capability, and featureset, Sony's hints at "PS3 is an upgradable computer" might be what Microsoft is aiming to counter.

 

[MasaC]

First MS said all xbox 360 would come with a harddrive. That didn't turn out to be true. Then they said no game would require HDD. That didn't turn out to be true. Then they said no xbox 360 would have an internal HD-DVD drive. That didn't turn out to be true. Then they said no game would require the HD-DVD. When will the lies stop?

 

[expletive]

More add-ons and use of a PC means more expense. With an internal HD-DVD drive, I can't see why an XBox360 with HD-DVD should be cheaper than a PS3, subsidies apart, but then Sony has more reason to subsidise BD player capability than Microsoft has to subsidise HD-DVD. What is more Sony makes better use of the BD drive since it will be used for games as well.

As for PVR capability, and featureset, Sony's hints at "PS3 is an upgradable computer" might be what Microsoft is aiming to counter.

If there is a subsidy for HD-DVD i believe it would more likely come from Toshiba than MS.

 

[patsu]

The PVR functionality is already there, I use my 360 as a PVR today, the PC does the recording but it's transparant.

Urgh... it still need a PC with that hard disk ? In any case, we have an opportunity to see what happens next (if this thing happens)

 

[scooby_dooby]

First MS said all xbox 360 would come with a harddrive.
- True

Then they said no game would require HDD.
- False. They said no games initially would require it, i.e launch games, which was true.

Then they said no xbox 360 would have an internal HD-DVD drive.
- They haven't broken that promise....yet.

Then they said no game would require the HD-DVD.
- Still pending.

 

[Bad_Boy]

First MS said all xbox 360 would come with a harddrive.
- True

Kinda ot, but didnt everybody expect a standard harddrive before the two SKU's were announced?

 

[bleon]

First MS said all xbox 360 would come with a harddrive. That didn't turn out to be true. Then they said no game would require HDD. That didn't turn out to be true. Then they said no xbox 360 would have an internal HD-DVD drive. That didn't turn out to be true. Then they said no game would require the HD-DVD. When will the lies stop?

So far MS have done the exact opposite of what they've promised, so the chances of HD-DVD games being released is quite high.
It would solve a lot of issues caused by the restrictive DVD capacity. Multiplatform games wouldn't need to have content hacked off and downgraded. Developers would find it easier to port games over to 360 without wasting time on compression and multidisk juggling.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Kinda ot, but didnt everybody expect a standard harddrive before the two SKU's were announced?

Ya, my first warning on this forum was the day they announced the core, when I flamed MS for about 3 hours straight

 

[Bad_Boy]

Ya, my first warning on this forum was the day they announced the core, when I flamed MS for about 3 hours straight

I never was really happy about the two SKU's MS and Sony have done. I can kinda see why they would do something like that, but me personally I'd rather have one SKU like nintendo is doing.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

In the case of two SKU's, I don't PS3 is as badly done as XB360, as functionally they're identical, expect maybe wireless PSP linkup. The XB360 Core elliminated the standard HDD, affecting it's usefulness in games. By contrast whatever devs want to do with PS3, it'll work on either system (unless they want 30 GB installs!).

 

[function]

First MS said all xbox 360 would come with a harddrive.

Nope.

Then they said no game would require HDD.

Nope.

Then they said no xbox 360 would have an internal HD-DVD drive.

Actually, they carefully stated they had "no plans" to do this. That doesn't mean they can't use 360 technology in a PSX-style system that incorporates a HD-DVD drive.

Then they said no game would require the HD-DVD.

Still true, but in the long term I guess we'll see. Access time and data transfer rate are likely to make the external HD-DVD less than ideal for many games. As I said earlier, if a publisher thinks they can make a go of HD-DVD games good luck.

When will the lies stop?

Sigh.

The funny thing is, I don't have a 360 and at the moment I don't want one. I don't want a HD-DVD drive. I want a Wii. I just don't understand why these threads sometimes degenerate into spinning and FUD from parties that have nothing to gain.

 

[function]

In the case of two SKU's, I don't PS3 is as badly done as XB360, as functionally they're identical, expect maybe wireless PSP linkup. The XB360 Core elliminated the standard HDD, affecting it's usefulness in games. By contrast whatever devs want to do with PS3, it'll work on either system (unless they want 30 GB installs!).

Indeed, the 360 can't rely on a HDD unless it wants to elminate a proportion of the userbase. I still think that tradeoff was the right one though (and Sony's decision the right one too, under the circumstances). In a big role reversal, MS want to push down price to reach mass market prices quickly and profitably, and Sony want to up the features.

I can't help marvelling at how .. err ... poetic(?) ... the twists and changes in this generational transition have been so far!