Xbox 360 HDMI Capable

[expletive]

Unfortunately, HDMI isn't a simple matter of making a cable with the right pinouts. If the XB360 doesn't have a TMDS transmitter chip, than it doesn't, and a true HDMI cable is IMPOSSIBLE.

If HDMI was possible, MS would have already announced a SKU for a HDMI cable package. There is no reason whatsoever for them not to make one, or announce an upcoming one. I bet with 95% probability that the XB360 output port does not contain digital signals except for audio, and that the XB360 does not have a TMDS transmitter nor HDCP support. Without this support, no cable is possible.

Why is there this assumption that there is NO reason for MS to not announce an HDMI cable right at this moment? There may be plenty of reasons that we dont know about, its cost, the fact that they want a bunch of people to buy component first then HDMI later, too many accessories that confuse the consumer etc.

I'm sure theres lots of other peripherals that havent been announced, that are possible and even PLANNED at this point. How about that little keyboard thingy we saw in some of those Asia presentation slides? That hasnt been announced, does that mean its impossible?

Jeez guys,' i'm not saying it is or isnt impossible but to say its impossible simply because they havent announced it yet seems a little over the top no?

Holmdahl also did not say 'the 360 is incapable of outputting HDMI at this point'. He said 'we will offer it when it makes sense'. That doesnt instantly mean it will be a cable, a new SKU, or a cable with some inline box that houses the necessary chip for an HDMI signal, it means only what was said.

 

[expletive]

Maybe they are not releasing it simply because it's beginning to be accessory overload at this point, and they also have enough on their plate right now. We'll see a second round of peripherals I'm sure, with a 40GB HDD, larger memory card, web cam and DVI cable.

Sorry scooby this scenario is way to plausible for this thread, go sell your logic somewhere else.

 

[Pugger]

I'm not saying this proves anything one way or another but there was a thread over at the Bizarre Creations website regarding best TV for image quality. Alan one of the developers posted this, in response to someone worry about there LCD display.

" It will look fine! I'm just saying that for me a CRT or plasma is a “nicer” picture (for lack of a better word!) Even with PC’s I still prefer a CRT monitor for my main display.

As always you should try before you buy, if you like the look of something then that should be good enough! Never settle for defaults either, the Samsung TV’s that MS are using have a massive amount of controls allowing you to set up your TV to just how you want it

Hopefully MS will release some sort of HDMI/DVI cable later on that will give the best possible image. HDMI and DVI are the same signal but HDMI also carries audio. If you are thinking of buying a display with HDMI/DVI you might want to check that it is HDCP compatible, it’s a form of content protection (Not a DRM) that might become widespread."

http://www.bizarreonline.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8864&start=30

 

[expletive]

As has already been pointed out on this thread, Best Buy describes the cable as an 'HDMI Component Cable' and they show a picture of a component cable. It's likely they have mistaken HDMI for HD in the description on the site.

And i've responded several times that its not only bestbuy, but also amazon, and j and r, that have the same cable listed. I'm not saying its impossible, but isnt it odd that 3 major online stores would make the same error in calling a cable HDMI? Why would all 3 mistakenly pull "HDMI" out of thin air? PLUS, i spoke to a guy in the QA/AC department at pelican and they confirmed its existence. Again i'm not saying its definite, but theres certainly enough evidence for it to be 50/50 at this point.

 

[XTrek]

And what reason do you have to believe the X360 does not have this chip?

As far as them not announcing, Todd Holmdahl confirmed it is coming, so it's not like they have said nothing. MS has shows through their actions that they realize they can not change the SKU on people, and they've built a modular system than can be upgraded. To think they didn't appl this same approach to the HDM/DVI capabilities defies logic. They will not make anyone buy a new SKU simply to enable DVI output.

Maybe they are not releasing it simply because it's beginning to be accessory overload at this point, and they also have enough on their plate right now. We'll see a second round of peripherals I'm sure, with a 40GB HDD, larger memory card, web cam and DVI cable.

The main reason for not including HDMI is to save money. The HDMI/HDCP chipset costs. Also they must pay a royalty for each 360 to includes it.

 

[ban25]

Well, Amazon gives the same description of the cable as being 'HDMI Component'. I think given the fact that Microsoft has not announced any official digital cable for the system (no HDMI or DVI) while announcing practically every form of analog output under the sun, it's very likely that we will not see such an option. Given that the system does not have an HD-DVD drive and only outputs DVDs at 480p, I don't see any real need to even have HDMI-out.

And i've responded several times that its not only bestbuy, but also amazon, and j and r, that have the same cable listed. I'm not saying its impossible, but isnt it odd that 3 major online stores would make the same error in calling a cable HDMI? Why would all 3 mistakenly pull "HDMI" out of thin air? PLUS, i spoke to a guy in the QA/AC department at pelican and they confirmed its existence. Again i'm not saying its definite, but theres certainly enough evidence for it to be 50/50 at this point.

 

[MfA]

I bet with 95% probability that the XB360 output port does not contain digital signals except for audio, and that the XB360 does not have a TMDS transmitter nor HDCP support. Without this support, no cable is possible.

They could in theory have HDMI without HDCP couldn't they? (In practice people would get pissed if they couldnt stream HD content over it from a windows media PC.)

 

[expletive]

They could in theory have HDMI without HDCP couldn't they? (In practice people would get pissed if they couldnt stream HD content over it from a windows media PC.)

No, HDCP compliance is part of the HDMI spec.

 

[expletive]

Well, Amazon gives the same description of the cable as being 'HDMI Component'. I think given the fact that Microsoft has not announced any official digital cable for the system (no HDMI or DVI) while announcing practically every form of analog output under the sun, it's very likely that we will not see such an option. Given that the system does not have an HD-DVD drive and only outputs DVDs at 480p, I don't see any real need to even have HDMI-out.

I'm not going to repeat it but if you care to read the thread youll see numerous instnaces explained where the 360 may require such a connection.

I've already responded to the "MS hasnt announced it so it must not ever be available" debate already as well.

 

[expletive]

The main reason for not including HDMI is to save money. The HDMI/HDCP chipset costs. Also they must pay a royalty for each 360 to includes it.

Thats right, and they want to keep that core bundle as cheap as possible. That doesnt mean, however, that they wouldnt have made provisions to offer an external cable or 'active cable' solution so people who want it can pay to have it, yet those that dont need it, dont pay for it needlessly.

 

[Ty]

Sorry scooby this scenario is way to plausible for this thread, go sell your logic somewhere else.

Uh, yea. A HDMI cable sure will cause consumer confusion at this point (never mind what we have here!).

If anything, it's more likely that the part simply hasn't been built yet (witness your discussion with Pelican - it's in the QA department and their CS department didn't know much about it).

Will the X360 have HDMI? Probably. How will this be achieved? None of us here know.

Some claim MS can't be that stupid. Others are playing the wait-and-see attitude. I don't think either at this point are silly positions.

Thats right, and they want to keep that core bundle as cheap as possible. That doesnt mean, however, that they wouldnt have made provisions to offer an external cable or 'active cable' solution so people who want it can pay to have it, yet those that dont need it, dont pay for it needlessly.

Goodness, do you mean a chip in the cable (as I mentioned earlier)? Ugh, no thanks. The ADC-DAC method is hardly something worth writing home about.

 

[DemoCoder]

They could in theory have HDMI without HDCP couldn't they? (In practice people would get pissed if they couldnt stream HD content over it from a windows media PC.)

Even if this were possible, how would they achieve it without a Silicon Image TMDS chip in the XBox360 (or TMDS integrated into Xenos). The only possible way you could have an "external" TMDS chip on the cable is if someout, the external output port has direct access to frame buffer memory, which I find unlikely.

It seems to me that HDMI was left out of the XB360 for cost issues, and I don't think the current XB360 is capable of it. They will have to release a future SKU to support it.

 

[one]

There's no HDMI port on the box... What's the point of that Pelican HDMI component cable?

 

[valioso]

There's no HDMI port on the box... What's the point of that Pelican HDMI component cable?

there is also no component or s-video inputs, and yet those adaptors are out there for that type of output, so is not impossible that one day they'll release an hdmi cable.

 

[expletive]

Uh, yea. A HDMI cable sure will cause consumer confusion at this point (never mind what we have here!).

If anything, it's more likely that the part simply hasn't been built yet (witness your discussion with Pelican - it's in the QA department and their CS department didn't know much about it).

Will the X360 have HDMI? Probably. How will this be achieved? None of us here know.

Some claim MS can't be that stupid. Others are playing the wait-and-see attitude. I don't think either at this point are silly positions.

Agreed. The only position i have debated against and i would dare call 'silly' are the "MS hasnt announced it so it can never exist" position.

Goodness, do you mean a chip in the cable (as I mentioned earlier)? Ugh, no thanks. The ADC-DAC method is hardly something worth writing home about.

There lots of people that have multiple AD/DA conversions in their video strem today and dont even know about it. When you input a signal via component to a CRT that is not in its native resolution (which is usually the case), it must convert it from Digital to analog in your cable box (or wahtever) for the component out, analog to digital to scale it, scale it, then back to analog again for the CRTs. Its not unheard of and i bet a majority of the people with HD are doing this.

"A chip IN the cable" sounds much worse than what i had in mind ( ) which is a small plastic box that would plug into the A/V port in the back. In that box would be the necessary chips to output HDMI. Then the cable would extend directly from there.

Also there is no guarentee there would have to be another A/D conversion. If there is no TDMS, thats fine but it doesnt mean that the 360 cant pass the raw digital output data to that port. No one said that the output signal cant bypass the final D/A conversion...

 

[one]

there is also no component or s-video inputs, and yet those adaptors are out there for that type of output, so is not impossible that one day they'll release an hdmi cable.

Yeah no inputs whatsoever, but analog outputs. What's the point again?

 

[valioso]

Yeah no inputs whatsoever, but analog outputs. What's the point again?

the pt is that they can make an hdmi cable that adapts to the video output from the back of the console.. the same way that component cables, vga cables or svideo cables are all connected to the same place..

 

[one]

the pt is that they can make an hdmi cable that adapts to the video output from the back of the console.. the same way that component cables, vga cables or svideo cables are all connected to the same place..

Well, if you say there is a component/VGA-to-HDMI cable peripheral for Xbox 360, things like that should exist as already released products in the general A/V market. What I could find for such conversion are AV amplifiers with > $1000 price tag or this new product with MSRP $299. If a slim component/VGA-to-HDMI cable for Xbox 360 is possible with a reasonable price for a typical game console user, the manufacturer of this brand-new bulky product must be out of mind.

http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/hcp261.ASP

 

[DemoCoder]

Why would I want a A/D converted HDMI cable? It's a waste of time and defeats the whole purpose anyway. If I'm going have analog signals in my path, I may as well just use the component cable.

Face it, there is no HDMI cable nor will there be. An A?D converter would be a stupendous hack, expensive, and inferior quality. Practically worthless unless your TV ONLY has an HDMI input.

 

[expletive]

Well, if you say there is a component/VGA-to-HDMI cable peripheral for Xbox 360, things like that should exist as already released products in the general A/V market. What I could find for such conversion are AV amplifiers with > $1000 price tag or this new product with MSRP $299. If a slim component/VGA-to-HDMI cable for Xbox 360 is possible with a reasonable price for a typical game console user, the manufacturer of this brand-new bulky product must be out of mind.

http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/hcp261.ASP

Youre making the assumption that the video coming out of the port in the back is analog. Just becuase it isnt HDMI, does not mean that the digital signal from the scaler chip cant be passed on directly as a 'raw' digital signal to an HDMI cable/converter.