Very Interesting Xbox 360 Survey

[Shifty Geezer]

And it certainly was an argument about next-gen'ness. You used 'next gen or not' as the entire basis for whether or not the price was justified. Yet, as I showed in my silly response, your criteria for what is next gen or not was completely arbitrary.

I was only using 'next-gen'ness in the argument to pipo's comparison with the PS3 and Wii controllers, and it was only part of my argument. If you're going to compare this controller with Wii and PS3 on price, you also have to compare on features. And both Wii and PS3 are adding a new feature (more advanced than MS's 8 year old tech BTW) which could account for higher pricing. I just grouped them under the banner 'next-gen' as they're using techniques not used in the previous gen, whereas the XB360 controller isn't (apart from wireless, which 3rd party and Nintendo had, so that's not new technology).

An argument about 'next-gen's definition won't go anywhere, as there's many ways to cut it. Ignore the term next-gen-ness and instead look at the meat of the argument. This new controller is adding, apparently, nothing much feature wise to the old XB360 controller. It seems to have less costly features than the PS3 and Wii controllers, and yet could be priced as high or higher than them. Who thinks that's fair and reasonable pricing? It might sell bucket loads, but that doesn't make it any less of a rip-off than watch batteries at £5 a pop and iTunes at 99p a song in the UK versus about 60p in the US!

 

[Platon]

The simple truth is that if MS wants to go mainstream, they will have to lower prices on more or less everything. Maybe they are still taergetting the "hardcore" or early adopters so these prices are maybe then OKish, but next year the will for sure have to lower prices not only the consoles but also the periferals.

As for the online downloading of movies and TV shows, I would imagine that now intially it will only be the "enthusiasts" that are taking advantage of it and maybe once again tha prices are OK for that, but they will also need to go down in price to catch the mainstream, especially as many download them for "free"...

 

[scooby_dooby]

Have you ever tried calling MS and asking them to fix your broken D-Pad?

No, because first of all MS support is fuckin inept, and second of all it's a problem with all 360 Dpads.

 

[Planet]

Why not? $59.99 is another possible price point and you've been perfectly happy ignoring that.

Just like every PS3 critic is perfectly happy ignoring the $499 price point of the 20GB version?

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Please, they know that an upgraded controller would sell at the same price as the current controller, so that argument is nonsense. They know what would sell, this all about how to extract EXTRA money from the userbase.

Ohhhh Noooess!!! A company making a profit. And GOSH! Trying to maximize it?!

AAAAHRRRRGGGH!!!!!

IF YOU DON'T WANT IT, DON'T BUY IT.

It is bad, I don't own MS stocks, and I don't appreciate price gouging like a $100 wifi dongle, $100 HDD, and $70 controllers.

THEN DON'T BUY IT.

You can make all the excuses you want, but as far as I'm concerned they are gouging the consumer and at the same time creating a monopoly by not allowing any competitors in the wireless space.

You can bitch and moan all you want. You sound like a 10 year old who believes they "deserve" to have x-y-z just "because."

WAhhhhhhh!!! Cry me a river.

 

[Rolf N]

You sound like a 10 year old who believes they "deserve" to have x-y-z just "because."

You sound like the little brother of 10-year-old Microsoft who believes they deserve to have customers and an income "just because"

 

[Joe DeFuria]

You sound like the little brother of 10-year-old Microsoft who believes they deserve to have customers and an income "just because"

Really? What part of "If you don't want it don't buy it" don't you understand?

 

[pascal]

OT:

Joe DeFuria !!

What happened to you?

 

[Joe DeFuria]

OT:

Joe DeFuria !!

What happened to you?

If you mean..."where the hell have I been..." Changed jobs, and considerable effort to cut down on wasting time on the 'net. But with the elections, new Next-gen PC hardware and new console launches all converging at about the same time, I decided to peep in for a couple weeks. I'll be disappearing back to my hole in a week or two...

 

[Rolf N]

Really? What part of "If you don't want it don't buy it" don't you understand?

Which part of "discussion forum" do you not understand?

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Which part of "discussion forum" do you not understand?

I understand every bit of it, thanks. How about "logic"...you familiar with that word?

For example, If I thought MS believes that they just deserve income "because" (as you assert), then I would be telling everyone that the price is one that everyone should be happy to pay.

But that's not what I said, was it.

Whether or not you or scooby is "happy" about the price doesn't matter. What matters is what you actually do with your wallet. The fact of the matter is, if you buy it, then you DO believe it is worth it...no matter what you say about its worth or how happy or not you are about the purchase.

 

[Rolf N]

I understand every bit of it, thanks. How about "logic"...you familiar with that word?

For example, If I thought MS believes that they just deserve income "because" (as you assert), then I would be telling everyone that the price is one that everyone should be happy to pay.

But that's not what I said, was it.

Whether or not you or scooby is "happy" about the price doesn't matter. What matters is what you actually do with your wallet. The fact of the matter is, if you buy it, then you DO believe it is worth it...no matter what you say about its worth or how happy or not you are about the purchase.

We're not here to buy things or not, but to talk about things. Even opinions may be uttered in the process.
In any case, that was much better than just barging in on a working thread and scream-crapping on a perfectly valid opinion in the most childish way possible. Thanks for working on that.

edited bit: You must realize that this being "maximizing profit" is just an opinion, too. Prices can indeed be too high to sell significant numbers, in a way that reduces profit versus a lower price but more units moved. I know you know that.

 

[pascal]

If you mean..."where the hell have I been..." Changed jobs, and considerable effort to cut down on wasting time on the 'net. But with the elections, new Next-gen PC hardware and new console launches all converging at about the same time, I decided to peep in for a couple weeks. I'll be disappearing back to my hole in a week or two...

Understood. Enjoy your time

 

[Arwin]

We're not here to buy things or not, but to talk about things. Even opinions may be uttered in the process.
In any case, that was much better than just barging in on a working thread and scream-crapping on a perfectly valid opinion in the most childish way possible. Thanks for working on that.

edited bit: You must realize that this being "maximizing profit" is just an opinion, too. Prices can indeed be too high to sell significant numbers, in a way that reduces profit versus a lower price but more units moved. I know you know that.

And anyway, after 5 years, the Xbox still has to make any profit. Current expectations are somewhere in 2007 (which probably doesn't include the losses made on the Xbox?).

So in other words, it's payback time!

Seriously, Xbox has to make a profit too at some point, and they'll be looking at all the traditional as well as non-traditional ways they can find, obviously. Can you really blame them?

It seems to be easier in this respect for Sony, who have more to gain from BluRay, 1080p televisions, media, and so on ...

 

[scooby_dooby]

Ohhhh Noooess!!! A company making a profit. And GOSH! Trying to maximize it?!

Oh give me a break, you sounds like an MS board member or something. Compare MS to Sony who has an open policy on peripherals, open policy on memory cards, FREE charging kit with controllers, and it's CLEAR MS are doing nothing but nickel and diming to the extreme.

You really could not be missing the point more. I might buy it, I might not, THAT'S NOT THE POINT. The point is this company is being greedy, compared to their competitors in the space, that's it. You can agree or disagree, I don't care but at least understand the basic argument, it's undeniable.

Look at the amount of money Sony is leaving on the table using generic memory cards, generic HDD, no $20 plug and play kit to charge your controller. In light of what Sony is doing, how you can defend MS's constant attempts to rape us for every little thing possible is beyond me.

Sony should be commended for their open support, and MS condemed for their insistance on locking everything down and then overcharging for it. Not the other way around.

This isn't about whether I'll buy it or not, it's simply the principal.

p.s. what i DESERVE is a functioning controller for $50 without major defects. By having a 'upgraded' DPad in this new controller, they are admitting the DPad in the initial controllers was garbage. $50 is a premium price, and for that price I don't expect to have to pay MORE to get basic funtionality.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Oh give me a break, you sounds like an MS board member or something.

What I am, is a capitalist.

Compare MS to Sony who has an open policy on peripherals, open policy on memory cards, FREE charging kit with controllers, and it's CLEAR MS are doing nothing but nickel and diming to the extreme.

It's clear that they two have slightly different strategies. MS lets you go out and by a core console, and Sony forces you to buy things you may or may not need.

Who is more "greedy". BOTH

BOTH companies have their own idea on how to maximize profit. This doesn't make one company any more greedy than another.

You really could not be missing the point more. I might buy it, I might not, THAT'S NOT THE POINT. The point is this company is being greedy, compared to their competitors in the space, that's it. You can agree or disagree, I don't care but at least understand the basic argument, it's undeniable.

Of course it's deniable.

Equating "greed" with a "different philosophy on pricing schemes" is just well, stupid.

Hell, MS shipped their product of comparable power "to the competitors" a YEAR EARLY. Meanwhile, Sony is "milking" the PS2...who is more "greedy?"

Give me a break.

They are companies...both driven by profits. Both, by definition, are as greedy as one another.

p.s. what i DESERVE is a functioning controller for $50 without major defects.

What you DESERVE is for MS to abide by whatever warantee agreement you are entitled to with your purchase. Nothing more or less.

What MS DESERVES is for you to give them a chance to honor their end of the bargain before you try and rape and pillage them.

 

[Shark Sandwich]

Really? What part of "If you don't want it don't buy it" don't you understand?

I agree with this principle. It's the way a free market is supposed to work

However, I don't think that means that nobody should be allowed to complain or express their opinions otherwise. I find it very frustrating when I see MS charging unreasonable prices for something I want. I find it even more frustrating that many people are willing to pay these high prices, so MS has no reason to drop them.

Even worse, with items like the wireless controllers, hard drive, and wifi adapter, MS controls the hardware and has no competition. This allows them to charge more than they'd otherwise be able to get away with.

I really want to see people say NO to Microsoft so they'll have to drop their prices, or even better, see MS allow third-party wireless controllers and other peripherals. However, my guess is that most people will just bend over and take it, rationalize the cost somehow, and prices will stay the same. People like me will have to either suck it up and pay the high price, or go without.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I agree with this principle. It's the way a free market is supposed to work

However, I don't think that means that nobody should be allowed to complain or express their opinions otherwise.

Hey, I didn't say people don't have a right to complain. It's the "The company is doing it out of greed...as opposed to this other company that doesn't" talk that irks me.

It's also tiresome to hear the same old "it only costs X to manufacture...so it should sell for less" arguments, when the cost of materials to build is

1) only a fraction of the cost that it takes to get the product produced all the way through to the consumers' hand

2) Cost has little to do with selling price. Supply and demand sets the price...the overall cost will determine the profit.

I find it even more frustrating that many people are willing to pay these high prices, so MS has no reason to drop them.

Sure. I find it frustrating when people complain about the cost...and then go ahead and buy it....which only supports the price.

Even worse, with items like the wireless controllers, hard drive, and wifi adapter, MS controls the hardware and has no competition. This allows them to charge more than they'd otherwise be able to get away with.

I would not say that's "worse." It's a business decision that fits into the entire scheme of the sales model for the box. MS needs to get enough revenue for profit from somewhere. It's obviously not the console itself at this stage. So for now, it's going to be some of the games, probably Live, and peripherals.

Would you prefer lower profit margins on peripherals, and higher prices for games? Higher price for the Box?

People like me will have to either suck it up and pay the high price, or go without.

Correct. You could buy a PS3 to satisfy your "peripheral" problem...so why don't you?

Hey, my household took in over $300K in gross income this year. Even though I'd like one, I have not yet bought a 360! Why? Because I judge the total cost of ownership too high. I have limited disposable income (after the mortgage, retirement savings, college savings, day-care costs...emergency fund savings...) and it's not worth it.

Having said that...I don't curse out MS as "teh Devil"...I'm simply going without until circumstances change. (MS lowers the price, MS adds more value, or I have more disposable income.)

 

[London Geezer]

Hey, I didn't say people don't have a right to complain. It's the "The company is doing it out of greed...as opposed to this other company that doesn't" talk that irks me.

I don't think that was scooby's point. Of course all these evil corporations are just as greedy as each other. They're all in it for the profits and market share. Sony will cover the cost for this apparent "gesture of good will" by inflating their HDTV prices even more, or whatever other product they sell - most of which are overpriced, as we all know. Whereas MS will try to make money some other way.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I don't think that was scooby's point.

Well...(and the emphasis is his, not added by me).

The point is this company is being greedy, compared to their competitors in the space, that's it. You can agree or disagree, I don't care but at least understand the basic argument, it's undeniable.