Xbox 360 as a DVD player (vs. PS2)

[Guden Oden]

Having used a PS2 to watch DVDs for almost three years now, I've become quite familiar with it as a playback device.

I have always used either composte or S-video with the PS2 (since there is no component cable available for it in europe), so one can of course notice an immediate picture advantage for the x360 when using component. A small question mark regarding the exact output resolution used, because PAL DVD video is - I believe - 720*576 pixels, and some have speculated x360 outputs a 480P signal in DVD mode. This might only apply to NTSC, and/or VGA cable equipped systems, I'm not sure. Anyway, from a simple eyeball test, the image looks very clean and sharp. Some claimed banding and such in dark areas, and suffice to say, I have not noticed any such problems myself.

Picture seems easily on-par with PS2, and in reality even better. At least when comparing S-video versus component as previously stated.

x360 is also noticeably quieter than the PS2 in DVD mode. Other circumstances is a different matter entirely, but at least when watching movies, fan noise is not only lower in volume, it is lower in pitch as well, making my PC with its six (!) fans the biggest source of noise.

One very pleasant aspect of x360 DVD playback is the swiftness which it reacts to rewind/playback commands. This isn't the case with PS2, which is noticeably laggy both when starting and stopping rewind. The various "gears" are also much smoother stepped than PS2, which has sort of playback in reverse, so-so fast and un-fucking-believably quick rewind modes to choose from, none of which are really suitable in most cases. x360 however reacts swiftly and precisely to button presses, has 2, 4, 8, 16 and 32x speeds both forwards and reverse, and and may even display the text I believe, at least while fast forwarding.

Having said that, I'm a little disappointed there's a rather large framerate hiccup on x360 each time the movie is unpaused, but at least there doesn't seem to be any pause during layer changes.

I only have the freebie remote for x360, and compared to PS2's, it's rather weak in its LED strength. Not only is the range only a few meters, it has to be aimed very precisely from a distance as well. PS2 remote I can point at the ceiling and still manage to operate DVD playback. If the full-price remote doesn't offer significantly stronger IR signalling I'd be terribly disappointing, because the freebie remote really is unforgivably weak. Then again, I'd think it would simply be best to not buy the full remote at all and instead go for a Logitech Harmony programmable unit instead.

One curious thing is that the x360 (wireless) pad cannot double as a remote, while PS2 pad quite happily will do just that. Not that it's particulary ergonomic or anything, but at least it's doable. On x360 all you get is this little on-screen display where a highlight can be moved around with the D-pad to operate a few of the more important functions, but this is rather cumbersome. Especially when fast-forwarding/rewinding. I can only assume this is so the user will get tired and decide to splurge for the remote instead. Friggin' microsoft!

Sound-wise, I'm rather annoyed that the unit - just like PS2 - refuses to decode DTS into analog. While I have the optical output connected to my surround system, it requires me to change the sound input manually whenever I want to switch between DVD playback and TV for instance. It'd been much more convenient if it decoded DTS as standard so I could keep input set on analog at all times. At least MS doesn't brag with a DTS logo embossed into the casing like Sony does. Always something I guess.

On the whole tho, I feel the DVD experience is better on MS's new wonder machine. Picture is better, background noise is less. Reaction time is smoother. Most stuff is just plain nicer. Good to see technology has progressed in the 5-ish years since the launch of PS2.

 

[kyleb]

Sound-wise, I'm rather annoyed that the unit - just like PS2 - refuses to decode DTS into analog. While I have the optical output connected to my surround system, it requires me to change the sound input manually whenever I want to switch between DVD playback and TV for instance.

I don't follow what you are talking about here at all. Why is there any need to use analog for anything when you have digtial connection, and how would you expect either console to be able to decode and output DTS surroundsound with only a single pair of analog outs?

 

[mrdarko]

not that matters to you now,but

http://uk.playstation.com/hardware/hardware.jhtml?id=1000000020&generationId=2

 

[CMcK]

A small question mark regarding the exact output resolution used, because PAL DVD video is - I believe - 720*576 pixels, and some have speculated x360 outputs a 480P signal in DVD mode. This might only apply to NTSC, and/or VGA cable equipped systems, I'm not sure. Anyway, from a simple eyeball test, the image looks very clean and sharp. Some claimed banding and such in dark areas, and suffice to say, I have not noticed any such problems myself.

I tried a DVD on my UK model Xbox 360 just out of curiosity. My TV (Loewe Xelos A32) reports that it was displaying the DVD at 720 x 576 just as my Pioneer 575 does. I'm using the standard 360 component cable BTW.

The image quality from the 360m was OK but I did find that there was some tearing on fast panning scenes. Overall I'll be sticking with the Pioneer.

 

[Guden Oden]

I don't follow what you are talking about here at all. Why is there any need to use analog for anything when you have digtial connection

Um, because not every piece of equipment attached to the surround system outputs a digital signal? So to watch DVDs (with DTS sound), I switch the TV to component input using one remote. Then I reach for another and switch sound system to digital input. Then to watch the evening news, I reach for the third remote, pause the video, then switch TV back to antenna input and sound system to analog input. As the x360 passes its analog sound through the TV anyway to the sound system, if it decoded DTS instead of just passing it straight out the optical jack I wouldn't have to touch the sound input at all, saving me that bother.

and how would you expect either console to be able to decode and output DTS surroundsound with only a single pair of analog outs?

Kyle, meet Dolby Surround Pro Logic II. Dolby Surround Pro Logic II, this is Kyle.



x360 happily encodes everything else in DPLII, so it's a little annoying it doesn't even output DTS as plain simple stereo.

Pretty sure I haven't seen any tearing in the video, fast-panning stuff or not by the way. I did notice some sound/video desynch after writing the first post though, and this is undoubtedly related to the jerking when unpausing. It was a small but noticeable delay that lasted for a few short moments, then the x360 dropped a couple frames and they were synchronized again at the price of a video update hiccup. Meh, MS better fix this problem via Live I say...

 

[[maven]]

The 360 DVD player is not as nice with the VGA cable:
It only outputs (anamorphic, non-anamorphic, widescreen, 4:3) in 640x480 with 60Hz, which for PAL DVDs looks rather bad.

 

[Guden Oden]

That's awful. At least could have produced an 800*600 image...

 

[kyleb]

Um, because not every piece of equipment attached to the surround system outputs a digital signal? So to watch DVDs (with DTS sound), I switch the TV to component input using one remote. Then I reach for another and switch sound system to digital input. Then to watch the evening news, I reach for the third remote, pause the video, then switch TV back to antenna input and sound system to analog input. As the x360 passes its analog sound through the TV anyway to the sound system, if it decoded DTS instead of just passing it straight out the optical jack I wouldn't have to touch the sound input at all, saving me that bother.


Kyle, meet Dolby Surround Pro Logic II. Dolby Surround Pro Logic II, this is Kyle.



x360 happily encodes everything else in DPLII, so it's a little annoying it doesn't even output DTS as plain simple stereo.

No reason for introductions, or to be condescending, I am very familiar with PLII. I just didn't get what you were asking for before as you said you wanted analog DTS output and the only way to get that would be with 6 analog outs. But yeah, I guess they could decode DTS and then reincode that to PLII. Yet I don't see why there would be any reason to bother as all the DVDs I have ever seen default to a Dolby encoded track which you would be able to get two channel expanded surround sound from that just fine. So I don't get what I could be missing here, do some DVDs over in Europe only have DTS audio or something or why would you be wanting to mess with DTS if you are just trying to output PLII?

 

[Murakami]

Do somebody know which MPEG2 decoding and/or deinterlacing functions Xenos GPU support?

 

[Murakami]

Do somebody know which MPEG2 decoding and/or deinterlacing functions Xenos GPU support?

No one?

 

[Randell]

Thanks for the post Guden. I was contemplating selling my aging Sony all-in-one HT system and replacing it with an xbox360 as I was sure DVD playback via component would be better (plus more up to date functions such as MP3, JPEG compatibility etc) would mean although not high end, it would suit as the centre of a budget HC set-up, and mean I could spend more on the HD-TV, surround amp and speakers.

However, this was before I discovered:

- DVD's can only upscale over HDMI (apprently).
- Currently no HDMI cable for xbox360, hence no upscaling.
- MS have not told anyone about what upscaling capabilties the Xbox has for SD-DVD's.
- No DTS support in the Xbox360 - not confident it cant be coded in but not sure its been licensed
- No SA-CD or DVD-A support (I have a few SACD's)
- Only 480p via VGA.

So all in all, I'm better off just getting a reasonable budget upscaling DVD player like the Samsung 850 when I get my HD LCD.

 

[stevem]

So all in all, I'm better off just getting a reasonable budget upscaling DVD player like the Samsung 850 when I get my HD LCD.

Another option is not to bother with a low-end upscaling player at all. Select a display with a built-in scaler instead. More often than not, the output quality of these is far better than entry level DVD players.

 

[kyleb]

All HD displays have built in scalers, but I have never seen one that can do it like a good upscaling DVD player can.

 

[bouy]

For some reason I get a weird image distortion at the top of the screen when watching a DVD. The top inch or so of the image seems to be refracted or something.

My 360 is hooked up to my Dell 2405FPW via component cables. I don't see the same distortion when playing games. And the distortion seems to be only on my 2405FPW, it was fine on my Dad's TV at home.

I'm going to try it out with a different DVD to see if it can be duplicated. The DVD I was watching was Disc four of Battlestar Galactica Season 1 UK version (the new BSG).

I remember when I was in Ft. Huachuca we tried watching Rambo Pt. II on someone's PS2 and it kept locking up right before Rambo shoots his explosive tipped arrow into the guy. WE swapped PS2's and it still had the same exact issue. So we busted out someone's Xbox and everyone was happy. That's the only problem I've ever seen on the PS2, my friend told me it had issues with some dual layer discs or something. Is that gone in the PStwo? I'm thinking about getting one for a friend for his unit deploying to the gulf.

 

[London Geezer]

All HD displays have built in scalers, but I have never seen one that can do it like a good upscaling DVD player can.

That's because usually, upscaling DVD players use HDMI. That way the information stays digital all the way through to the TV.
Using Component and running at 480p (leaving the scaling to the TV) looks very good as it's progressive scan, but it does convert twice (from digital to analog on the DVD player and back to digital on the TV) which could lead to a loss in quality.
99.9% of the people hardly ever notice the difference though.

Officially, DVD players can only upscale when using HDMI or DVI-HDCP, however there are a few players that allow you to upscale through component, with a "not-so-secret" code to be put in from the remote.

Personally, i don't care about upscaling DVD players as it's a bit gimmicky to me, i would care more about the fact that using HDMI or DVI, it all stays digital till i get the light on my retinas and there is no loss in quality.

 

[kyleb]

Sure staying digital has it's perks, but my comment was made reguardless of connection. I take to you have never seen good upscaling in action if you think it is a gimick. If you have much of a DVD collection at all and a quality display then you are really missing out. You can get a taste for what can be done by following this guide to set up ffdshow. No reason to buy the programs they recomend using it with though as ffdshow works with Media Player Classic just as well. You can also find more shots ilustrating the difference here

 

[stevem]

All HD displays have built in scalers, but I have never seen one that can do it like a good upscaling DVD player can.

A couple of Qs. Are you telling me the FLI-2301 in a panel is not as good as the FLI-2301 in a DVD player? Does it matter if the signal is scaled, then sent or sent, then scaled?

I take to you have never seen good upscaling in action if you think it is a gimick.

Upscaling is nothing new. Ancient Sigma's can attest to that. Decent post-processing is another matter. If you're interested in HQ, then an external processing box can be better than any integrated solution.

 

[kyleb]

I never suggested upscaling was anthing new, but rather that there are better ways to go about it than others with upscaling DVD players generally being notably superior to what comes but into displays. Anyway, what panel with a FLI-2301 are you talking about?

 

[Mintmaster]

Sure staying digital has it's perks, but my comment was made reguardless of connection. I take to you have never seen good upscaling in action if you think it is a gimick. If you have much of a DVD collection at all and a quality display then you are really missing out. You can get a taste for what can be done by following this guide to set up ffdshow. No reason to buy the programs they recomend using it with though as ffdshow works with Media Player Classic just as well. You can also find more shots ilustrating the difference here

Do upscaling DVD players have the same results as ffdshow? I've seen upscaling DVD demonstrations in AV specialty stores and they were never this good. The ffdshow processing also creates some halos/ringing at object edges in some of those screenshots. I'm curious to see if there are any artifacts in motion as well. After all, the DVD only has so much information on it.

 

[London Geezer]

Sure staying digital has it's perks, but my comment was made reguardless of connection. I take to you have never seen good upscaling in action if you think it is a gimick. If you have much of a DVD collection at all and a quality display then you are really missing out. You can get a taste for what can be done by following this guide to set up ffdshow. No reason to buy the programs they recomend using it with though as ffdshow works with Media Player Classic just as well. You can also find more shots ilustrating the difference here

Hey there,

Well i didn't mean "gimmicky" as in useless, it surely can produce nice results, but the examples you gave only show what i was saying, the difference is there but it's hardly amazing. Obviously the level of difference or level of quality on your eyes might be different from my standards, but i'd say those examples are really nothing amazing. DVD is standard resolution and it will always be, as much work you put on it.
Upscaling DVD players are after all a stop-gap solution til we get HDDVD/Bluray, and mainly a way to make those HDTV show a decent video on DVD, cause many - especially LCD's - look like crap when fed interlaced material through Scart or S-Video or *shiver* composite.

The only reason i'd buy an upscaling DVD player is so i can use the HDMI/DVI plug and because an LCD really needs progressive scan signals to look decent. Apart from the Bravia's or the most expensive ones.