Windows Spatial Audio (Headset Surround Sound)

[homerdog]

I'm confused about how surround sound works with headsets these days. I have a stereo "gaming" headset and when I turn on Windows Sonic spatial audio it seems to do surround sound. Works pretty well. I also have a 7.1 gaming headset and it appears to Windows as a 7.1 surround sound system. This also gives pretty convincing surround sound.

My question is, do I only enable Windows Sonic on the stereo headset? Guessing I leave it off on the 7.1 headset. Or use the 7.1 headset in stereo mode and enable Windows Sonic (this is better?).

Also some games like Overwatch have Dolby Atmos built in. In those games maybe I'm supposed to use a stereo headset, disable Windows Sonic, and enable Atmos in the game? That's the most confusing part of all this. I really don't know if I should disable Windows Sonic when I enable Atmos in the game. If so that's pretty annoying. And to my ears Atmos sounds better that Windows Sonic. Or at least it sounds different. I'm not qualified to say which is better.

Also my old headset came with a 1 year subscription to Atmos from the Windows store. It expired but I assume it was doing the same thing as Windows Sonic. Maybe. Very confusing. And when I had Atmos enabled in Windows, should I also enable it in games like Overwatch?

 

[swaaye]

Whatever sounds best. Whether any of these work well is dependent on your ears.

Windows Spatial Audio is a Hololens development AFAIK. Also used with WMR. It is more than just a spatial mix if developers want it to be. Atmos is yet another one.

Headphone spatial tech is decades old and keeps getting tweaks. I often like Creative's best, starting with CMSS3D and now especially SXFI holophonics.

Spatial Sound for app developers for Windows, Xbox, and Hololens 2 - Win32 apps

Developer guidance for Microsoft Spatial Sound, Microsoft’s platform-level solution for spatial sound on Xbox, Windows and HoloLens 2, enabling both surround & elevation audio cues.

learn.microsoft.com

 

[Silent_Buddha]

My question is, do I only enable Windows Sonic on the stereo headset? Guessing I leave it off on the 7.1 headset. Or use the 7.1 headset in stereo mode and enable Windows Sonic (this is better?).

Yes, Windows Sonic and Dolby ATMOS use HRTF to mimic actual 3d sound sources through stereo outputs. So, don't use them with a more than 2 output system like the 7.1 headset unless you make it only output a stereo signal.

As to which is better? /shrug, personal experience with one caveat...

Also some games like Overwatch have Dolby Atmos built in. In those games maybe I'm supposed to use a stereo headset, disable Windows Sonic, and enable Atmos in the game? That's the most confusing part of all this. I really don't know if I should disable Windows Sonic when I enable Atmos in the game. If so that's pretty annoying. And to my ears Atmos sounds better that Windows Sonic. Or at least it sounds different. I'm not qualified to say which is better.

Also my old headset came with a 1 year subscription to Atmos from the Windows store. It expired but I assume it was doing the same thing as Windows Sonic. Maybe. Very confusing. And when I had Atmos enabled in Windows, should I also enable it in games like Overwatch?

Dolby ATMOS on PC in games can be freely used with a Dolby ATMOS receiver, however to use it on headphones and get the related HRTF benefits, you need to enable Dolby ATMOS output for headphones which requires purchasing the Dolby ATMOS for PC app/license. Dolby ATMOS support in game combined with enabling Dolby ATMOS for headphone output should sound noticeably better than just using Dolby ATMOS, Windows Sonic or a 7.1 output as it can also mimic sounds coming from above and below you and not just to the sides and back.

Dolby ATMOS in Cyberpunk 2077 combined with enabling Dolby ATMOS on headphones was quite impressive.

Regards,
SB

 

[homerdog]

Yes, Windows Sonic and Dolby ATMOS use HRTF to mimic actual 3d sound sources through stereo outputs. So, don't use them with a more than 2 output system like the 7.1 headset unless you make it only output a stereo signal.

As to which is better? /shrug, personal experience with one caveat...



Dolby ATMOS on PC in games can be freely used with a Dolby ATMOS receiver, however to use it on headphones and get the related HRTF benefits, you need to enable Dolby ATMOS output for headphones which requires purchasing the Dolby ATMOS for PC app/license. Dolby ATMOS support in game combined with enabling Dolby ATMOS for headphone output should sound noticeably better than just using Dolby ATMOS, Windows Sonic or a 7.1 output as it can also mimic sounds coming from above and below you and not just to the sides and back.

Dolby ATMOS in Cyberpunk 2077 combined with enabling Dolby ATMOS on headphones was quite impressive.

Regards,
SB

So in Overwatch you're supposed to enable Atmos in Windows and also in the game? I think the description of Atmos in the Overwatch settings says something like "must use stereo headphones". And the setting definitely works on my stereo headset with Windows set to normal (no spatial audio) and the Atmos setting turned on in Overwatch. It would be even better if I also had Atmos on in Windows?

 

[Davros]

now especially SXFI holophonics.

ooh, tell me about these holophonics are they holophonics aka zuccarelli labs holophonics ?

 

[swaaye]

ooh, tell me about these holophonics are they holophonics aka zuccarelli labs holophonics ?

This is thorough and sums it all up nicely.
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/creative-sound-blaster-x4/

The sound is interesting and I really like it. It's hard to describe. It's as if you are in a room of sound instead of having sound in your head. The enclosed feel of headphones goes away. They model your ears via photos and you need headphones they've modeled. The box also supports CMSS-3D style downmix.

 

[hoom]

This stuff confuses me so much.
I've got separate App/Control panels for:
Dolby DTS with mobo branding
Realtek Audio Control panel also with mobo branding & a DTS tickbox
Razer 7.1 tied to the headset
Windows Sonic

Really not sure which combo should produce better sound

Related question, what sound format should be set?
On the Realtek console I can set 24bit up to 192000Hz but it doesn't seem to like the modes over 48000Hz
In Windows settings I only get 16bit on the 7.1 mode but 24bit with it off

 

[homerdog]

This stuff confuses me so much.
I've got separate App/Control panels for:
Dolby DTS with mobo branding
Realtek Audio Control panel also with mobo branding & a DTS tickbox
Razer 7.1 tied to the headset
Windows Sonic

Really not sure which combo should produce better sound

Related question, what sound format should be set?
On the Realtek console I can set 24bit up to 192000Hz but it doesn't seem to like the modes over 48000Hz
In Windows settings I only get 16bit on the 7.1 mode but 24bit with it off

This is brutal. Most things wrt PC gaming have gotten way simpler over the years. Sound did get simple with the death of dedicated sound cards, EAX etc. but now I'm pretty much lost again. To many settings and control panels with seemingly redundant features that may or may not interfere with each other and ruin your experience.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

So in Overwatch you're supposed to enable Atmos in Windows and also in the game? I think the description of Atmos in the Overwatch settings says something like "must use stereo headphones". And the setting definitely works on my stereo headset with Windows set to normal (no spatial audio) and the Atmos setting turned on in Overwatch. It would be even better if I also had Atmos on in Windows?

So, it get's a little complicated (what isn't on PC anymore? )...

Overwatch has built in support for Dolby Atmos for Headphones but not Dolby Atmos for Home Theater setups. IE - you can't output a Dolby Atmos stream to a Dolby Atmos receiver and get full surround + height because it's specific only to the headphone support that Blizzard included in Overwatch (they paid for a license to include it in the game). So, for Overwatch, you wouldn't enable Dolby Atmos in Windows, probably. I'm not sure if it'll detect that it's enabled in Windows and adjust accordingly or not. This makes sense as they implemented that in game before Windows had a Dolby Atmos for Headphones app that can decode and use the Dolby Atmos stream that you would send to a Dolby Atmos receiver.

Overwatch 2, however, appears to have Dolby Atmos for Home Theaters (the full fat support). This you would use in conjunction with the Dolby Atmos for Headphones support in Windows or streaming to a Dolby Atmos receiver.
I didn't investigate further to see if OW2 also has an in game paid license (by Blizzard) for Dolby Atmos for Headphones support as they did with the first OW. Steaming out Dolby Atmos is free, having an option for it to be used with headphones (HRTF) requires a license paid either by the developer or by the person playing the game. The Dolby Atmos license for receivers is paid by the makers of the receivers. Whew...

Phew... I believe some games that support Dolby Atmos won't enable it for headphones unless the game detects that you have a license for Dolby Atmos for Headphones.

Regards,
SB

 

[Davros]

The sound is interesting and I really like it. It's hard to describe.

I've been a fan of Holophonics since I first heard it in 1983 on the album Pink Floyd - The Final Cut, at the end of one song there is a car that drives past I remember getting up and looking out of the window to see who the bloody hell was driving a car at insane speed in my street. This is so fortunate for me as i'm actually in the market for a headphone amp. I bought a pair of headphones just because the earcups were not leather/pu leather/leatherette or whatever. I got fed up of buying them and then 6 months later they start peeling. Anyway when I got the headphones home I discovered they were 250 ohms. so i absolutely will be buying one of those sxfi amps

 

[Davros]

Razer 7.1 tied to the headset

you are aware if your headset is usb it's bypassing your realtek hardware

 

[hoom]

Its actually a 3.5mm plug so it does go through the Realtek.
I had to go back and recheck my order when it arrived because I was certainly expecting USB & didn't even think to check when I bought.

got fed up of buying them and then 6 months later they start peeling

Man I hate that

 

[homerdog]

So, it get's a little complicated (what isn't on PC anymore? )...

Overwatch has built in support for Dolby Atmos for Headphones but not Dolby Atmos for Home Theater setups. IE - you can't output a Dolby Atmos stream to a Dolby Atmos receiver and get full surround + height because it's specific only to the headphone support that Blizzard included in Overwatch (they paid for a license to include it in the game). So, for Overwatch, you wouldn't enable Dolby Atmos in Windows, probably. I'm not sure if it'll detect that it's enabled in Windows and adjust accordingly or not. This makes sense as they implemented that in game before Windows had a Dolby Atmos for Headphones app that can decode and use the Dolby Atmos stream that you would send to a Dolby Atmos receiver.

Overwatch 2, however, appears to have Dolby Atmos for Home Theaters (the full fat support). This you would use in conjunction with the Dolby Atmos for Headphones support in Windows or streaming to a Dolby Atmos receiver.
I didn't investigate further to see if OW2 also has an in game paid license (by Blizzard) for Dolby Atmos for Headphones support as they did with the first OW. Steaming out Dolby Atmos is free, having an option for it to be used with headphones (HRTF) requires a license paid either by the developer or by the person playing the game. The Dolby Atmos license for receivers is paid by the makers of the receivers. Whew...

Phew... I believe some games that support Dolby Atmos won't enable it for headphones unless the game detects that you have a license for Dolby Atmos for Headphones.

Regards,
SB

What a nightmare. How does Windows Sonic play into this? I think it does the same thing as Atmos for headphones. So if I wanted to use Windows Sonic I need to make sure all the surround stuff is turned off in the game and turn on Windows Sonic in the OS? If a game has an option for 5.1 or 7.1 speaker config, do I activate that alongside Windows Sonic? Or maybe that will mess it up.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

What a nightmare. How does Windows Sonic play into this? I think it does the same thing as Atmos for headphones. So if I wanted to use Windows Sonic I need to make sure all the surround stuff is turned off in the game and turn on Windows Sonic in the OS? If a game has an option for 5.1 or 7.1 speaker config, do I activate that alongside Windows Sonic? Or maybe that will mess it up.

No. Windows Sonic takes a multichannel audio stream and converts it into a 2 channel HRTF output (headphones). Dolby Atmos for headphones does the same thing, but it can additionally decode/re-encode a Dolby Atmos audio stream into 2 channel HRTF output (headphones).

So, for Windows Sonic you want to enable multichannel audio (5.1, for example) in game. For Dolby Atmos for headphones you can either enable multichannel audio or use Dolby Atmos in game output. The confusing bit is whether you have to disable Dolby Atmos in windows if the game has native Dolby Atmos for Headphones native support (vs. Dolby Atmos encoded stream).

Regards,
SB

 

[trinibwoy]

I tried Windows Sonic for the first time recently and it does a really good job taking a surround output and producing convincing positional audio on stereo headphones.

@homerdog is your headset actually 7.1 or stereo with “software” surround? If it’s the latter then you can either use the software that came with your headset or Windows Sonic. They do the same thing.

 

[Malo]

I'm not sure how a headset can be 7.1 over a 3.5mm stereo jack.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I started to do EQ on my headphones and that didn't play nice with windows sonic or the dolby atmos app, so I stopped using them. Many games are starting to offer HRTF/3D sound options, so I just use those in games. Otherwise I just stick with the stereo mix for my headphones. I think if you are using the in-game atmos for headphones, HRTF or 3D-audio options the game will be outputting stereo sound and the dolby atmos or windows sonic apps won't do anything.

I'm not sure how a headset can be 7.1 over a 3.5mm stereo jack.

It might not be real 7.1. There are some scam headsets that take a stereo signal and try to make a fake surround mix out of it. It's as terrible as it sounds.

 

[Davros]

There are headphones that have multiple speakers in them but I'm skeptical about them. If I move my headphones back a little bit on my head it doesn't suddenly sound like the audio is coming from behind me
ps: do you have one of those creative amps ? what happens if you dont use the app that maps your ears ?

 

[homerdog]

I tried Windows Sonic for the first time recently and it does a really good job taking a surround output and producing convincing positional audio on stereo headphones.

@homerdog is your headset actually 7.1 or stereo with “software” surround? If it’s the latter then you can either use the software that came with your headset or Windows Sonic. They do the same thing.

I'm sure it's software. I don't know how a headset can actually be 7.1, but it cost $70 at Walmart.

Robot or human?

With headsets I use them until they break, which of course is when I need to use it, so then I rush out to Walmart and get another one.

I'm gonna use Windows Sonic and leave the RAZR software off. Still not sure if I should disable Windows Sonic when I enable Atmos in a game.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I'm sure it's software. I don't know how a headset can actually be 7.1, but it cost $70 at Walmart.

Robot or human?

With headsets I use them until they break, which of course is when I need to use it, so then I rush out to Walmart and get another one.

I'm gonna use Windows Sonic and leave the RAZR software off. Still not sure if I should disable Windows Sonic when I enable Atmos in a game.

If you enable dolby atmos for headphones in Overwatch it should be outputting a stereo audio signal, which I think Windows Sonic will leave alone. Dolby Atmos for Headphones is an HRTF type of virtualized surround with a stereo signal. Windows Sonic should only try to virtualize surround for games that are outputting a surround audio format.