Xbox 360 1080p – Why Not?
- Thread starter helvetica bold
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helvetica bold
Newcomer
Is it the scaler in question or the fact that VGA > component?
Well I guess that a $3000 TV would have a better scaler and
the $400 360.
Anyway, sorry, didn't know about the PS2 1080i info, interesting!
I'm a tecch noob – Art Director by trade...
Well I guess that a $3000 TV would have a better scaler and
the $400 360.
Anyway, sorry, didn't know about the PS2 1080i info, interesting!
I'm a tecch noob – Art Director by trade...
scooby_dooby
Legend
Some though, not all. *all* was a little strong a word to use, y'know?
Sorry, figure of speach
I'd say anything after the westinghouse/sceptre 1080p sets accepts 1080p. It just so happens most companies decided this year was the 1080p year so they brought their 1080p sets out this year.
There was only a handful of companies (and generally one model if that) that even had a 1080p set out prior to the cheap westinghouse/sceptres that came out about a year and a half ago, maybe closer to a year (and those two accept 1080p). I'll revise my statement even: I'd say it's not disingenuous to say any model introduced in the last year would accept 1080p -- most of the 1080p sets available now were introduced in the last year or so.
I was mostly curious if you knew something I didn't or if you were exaggerating a little. Regardless, it isn't a huge deal either way ... on a 1080p screen with sufficient hardware (which even the cheap-o 1080p panels seem to have), 1080i == 1080p. So if a dev on 360 were inclined, they could make a 1080i game and be just as well off as a 1080p game (especially if they used a 1080p framebuffer) for most anyone capable of actually displaying such a resolution. 1080p is more or less a bullet point -- it's the 1080 part that matters most.
From a technical point of view, I would assume 1080P wouldnt be very EDRAM friendly either.
It would require a lot of tiles which would probably start to be a major overhead correct?
________
Liveangelina Live
It would require a lot of tiles which would probably start to be a major overhead correct?
________
Liveangelina Live
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scooby_dooby
Legend
Agreed.
Not quite agreed here. For instance, 1080p30 is bearable, 1080i30 isn't so much. If you have 1080i60, it is bearable, but only if the image displayed is virtually static. Otherwise, it starts to look like modern 3D cinema without the glasses.
At least, that's my experience. Yours may vary.
Not quite agreed here. For instance, 1080p30 is bearable, 1080i30 isn't so much. If you have 1080i60, it is bearable, but only if the image displayed is virtually static. Otherwise, it starts to look like modern 3D cinema without the glasses.
At least, that's my experience. Yours may vary.
When I mentioned interlaced, I was assuming 1080i60. I think scooby was assuming that much as well.
scooby_dooby
Legend
Ya, as ERP already pointed out.
Do any 360 Games render to 1080i? And similarly can any console games switch the render target between 720p & 1080i depending on the resolution chosen by the user as would normally be the case on a PC game,
Im thinking whether that would be an interesting option for 1080p games on PS3 as users could get a choice between 1080p or more eye candy/higher frame rates.
No modern PC game renders in interlaced mode, interlaced rendering is fundamentally different from progressive rendering ... you can't afford to miss an update, period (if you do you get horribly jittery motion). I doubt any dev will do 1080i rendering without whips being involved (either to get him to submit, or because he's a masochist to begin with).
Not the least of which being the # of consumers that can actually accept a 1080p signal on a 1080p display...
On antoher note:
I dont think any games ever render in interlaced mode do they? I believe by their nature they always rendering a full frame and then using some sort of video chip to convert it into the desired format...
What I am saying is different than what Scooby is talking about, he is talking about the "1080p TVs" that won't actually accept a 1080p input, which is many until this year. What I am talking about (which drives me slightly crazy) is that on the Samsung BD-R, *all of the content on the disc is 1080p, however, the device interlaces to 1080i and then there is a separate chip that then re-outputs the signal to 1080p, this is the reason IMO that my HD A1 outputs 1080i. AVS has a much better explanation, and my brain is fried at the moment, I will try and find you a better explanation. So, from the BluRay player is doesnt go from disc to tv at 1080p. For the HD DVD player it just goes from 1080p on the disc to 1080i to the tv...so less processing overall. Both players drive me a little crazy though in their handling of 1080p as a whole (1080p24 = non-existent), but honestly at the end of the day, its still better than DVD and sometimes as good as D-VHS if not better.
*all = Movie content only, the extras are all SD/ED content
can we not talk about interlaced, it gives me a headache ( being older no doubt than the majority of ppl here, i can still remember when it was widely used )
also tvs!, i though all serious gamers used monitors
heres a nice one $2700NZ (try finding a tv less than twice that with similar specs)
30 inch resolution 2560x1600, 1080p pah :smile:
http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/30lcd_nz?c=nz&l=en&s=dhs
also tvs!, i though all serious gamers used monitors
heres a nice one $2700NZ (try finding a tv less than twice that with similar specs)
30 inch resolution 2560x1600, 1080p pah :smile:
http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/30lcd_nz?c=nz&l=en&s=dhs
Iron Tiger
Regular
VGA could handle it, but why doesn't it?
And my results match helvetica bold's. 1366x768(VGA)>1080i(component) on my Samsung 244t monitor. My monitor should be able to take a 1080p signal from DVI or VGA (its native res is 1920x1200). I wouldn't mind seeing MS enable the setting through VGA if only to compete in the "spec sheet war" with Sony. Even if I don't get 1080p games from it, I'll still have higher resolution upscaling on my DVDs.
I remember there are 3840 x 2400 QUXGA monitors on the market since several years ago. It cost like 8+ grand for 22", you need quad DVI to drive it at reasonable refresh rate. I wonder if something better has come out. Probably in 10 years consoles will support that kind of resolution.
helvetica bold said:
Certainly... 1080i you're taking an RGB digital signal, converting it to YCbCr, converting to analog, then your TV has to convert the analog back to digital, then convert back to RGB before outputting to the panel. At least w/VGA you can avoid the color space conversion. DVI or HDMI would be best of all since you can just pass the signal as digital RGB all the way to the panel. Plus the 1080i your TV also has to perform deinterlacing as well.
Plus as ERP alluded to, the scaler probably better in your TV than the 360 (at least for now).
Iron Tiger said:
Microsoft may not have built it with a RAMDAC with the appropriate signal bandwidth.
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