Will Warner support Blu-ray?

[Carl B]

Why not tell the complete story instead of posting more FUD especially when you erroniously claim FUD coming from BG?

Here let me help you out. It doesn't matter that BR also uses AACS. The fact it also uses BD+ means MMC in AACS can be disabled. This basically means the mandatory part of MMC becomes optional aka not mandatory which defeats the whole purpose of MMC in AACS in the first place. IOW you're not guaranteed MC in BR like you are with HD DVD even though both use AACS.

Well, be that though it may, since the announcement blu-ray has gained more studio support, and not less. So whatever the studios preference for iHD over BD-J, the scales are still clearly tipped in blu-ray's favor as far as Hollywood goes; else we wouldn't have this topic title to begin with.

 

[PC-Engine]

Well, be that though it may, since the announcement blu-ray has gained more studio support, and not less. So whatever the studios preference for iHD over BD-J, the scales are still clearly tipped in blu-ray's favor as far as Hollywood goes; else we wouldn't have this topic title to begin with.

In the end studios want to make as much money as they can that's why some will be releasing movies on both formats. Of course it's not a mystery why SONY's own studios will not be releasing on HD DVD.

So basically of BDs if a movie company wanted to stop it like Fox then they could. But a movie company could also allow it if they wanted too? Is that what you are trying to say?

Yes ie what was mandatory now becomes optional.

 

[Edge]

I thought having the studio support is key to winning this format war, and now downplaying what the studios want, which is, THEY DON'T WANT "managed copy", is the choice of argument???

How many movies does Microsoft produce each year?

Should Microsoft dictate what movie studios do with their own property?

 

[mckmas8808]

I thought having the studio support is key to winning this format war, and now downplaying what the studios want, which is, THEY DON'T WANT "managed copy", is the choice of argument???

How many movies does Microsoft produce each year?

Should Microsoft dictate what movie studios do with their own property?

Good questions Edge. It looks like MS should be talking with Movie companies not Sony and the rest of the Bluray board.

 

[one]

Why not tell the complete story instead of posting more FUD especially when you erroniously claim FUD coming from BG?

Here let me help you out. It doesn't matter that BR also uses AACS. The fact it also uses BD+ means MMC in AACS can be disabled. This basically means the mandatory part of MMC becomes optional aka not mandatory which defeats the whole purpose of MMC in AACS in the first place. IOW you're not guaranteed MC in BR like you are with HD DVD even though both use AACS.

So? What Bill Gates wanted by saying very uncertain "Blu-ray is anti-consumer" was spreading wrong impression that managed copy is impossible for any Blu-ray disc. If Mandatory Managed Copy is what consumer really want and can be a differentiating factor, BD+ won't be used or dropped like CCCD. If the initial Blu-ray copy-protection scheme is breached, then newly released discs can get BD+ and a new protection shceme to extend the life span of Blu-ray while HD-DVD is left in the cold.

 

[PC-Engine]

So? What Bill Gates wanted by saying very uncertain "Blu-ray is anti-consumer" was spreading wrong impression that managed copy is impossible for any Blu-ray disc. If Mandatory Managed Copy is what consumer really want and can be a differentiating factor, BD+ won't be used or dropped like CCCD. If the initial Blu-ray copy-protection scheme is breached, then newly released discs can get BD+ and a new protection shceme to extend the life span of Blu-ray while HD-DVD is left in the cold.

And how does this affect the consumer? That's right it doesn't. The consumer doesn't care whether or not their HD movies has 10 different layers of CP. All they care is if they can make copies of the HD discs they own. This is where BR is anti-consumer comes in and this is where your constant FUD falls flat.

Should Microsoft dictate what movie studios do with their own property?

Since when was MS solely responsible for pushing MMC? Let's see...TW, Paramount, and Universal will be releasing HD DVD movies next year under AACS's MMC scheme...I guess that means they don't have a problem with it. OTOH Fox seems to have a big problem with MMC so they'll likely use BD+ to disable it in BR movies. Looks like they want you to buy the same movies on BR and DVDs...

 

[mckmas8808]

And how does this affect the consumer? That's right it doesn't. The consumer doesn't care whether or not their HD movies has 10 different layers of CP. All they care is if they can make copies of the HD discs they own. This is where BR is anti-consumer comes in and this is where your constant FUD falls flat.

Oh please PCE consumers can't do that now. Consumers can't (aren't supposed to) copy copyright DVDs to their own DVD recordable disc. And most consumers don't even know about Blu-ray and HD-DVD so how do you know what they want?

 

[Edge]

PC-Engine will be pro HD-DVD and argue against Blu-ray for one simply reason, NEC makes it. Arguing with this guy is pointless.

 

[mckmas8808]

PC-Engine will be pro HD-DVD and argue against Blu-ray for one simply reason, NEC makes it. Arguing with this guy is pointless.

But if that's the case shouldn't he also be pulling for Blu-ray? Read below.

NEC Electronics Corp., a semiconductor subsidiary of NEC Corp, supports the HD-DVD format but has also joined Blu-ray promotion group, the company officials said. Since both Sony and Toshiba are key NEC customers, the manufacturer has indicated its readiness to adopt both formats.

Link http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/6896.cfm

 

[MoeStooge]

Yes the fact that Blu-Ray is in the PS3 is reason enough for MS to oppose Blu-Ray. All this talk about managed copy is a red herring. What did you expect MS to say, "We don't like Blu-Ray because it's in the PS3, our main competitor in consoles."?

Why would they care? I ask this honestly because I don't see a major reason to care about the PS3 aspect of it. I think MS's battle with Sony in the console market has very little to do with the whole format war thing. They aren't putting either HD-DVD or Bluray in the Xbox 360. I can definitely see the possibility of MC being a red herring, but I don't think that MS's main issue is the PS3. This issue is about Windows. That is still their number one priority, not the Xbox.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I think the 'MS concerned with BluRay' theory is that if BluRay is the adopted medium of HD movies, people will look at PS3's movie playback functionality when buying a console. Whereas if HDDVD is the HD medium of choice, PS3's capacity to play movies becomes useless and it loses that feature bulletpoint.

Personally I don't think MS's whole world view consists of nothing more XB360 and beating Sony in the console space. Perhpas not what many want to believe, for if true, if MS really don't care that much, this 'console war' loses a lot of it's drama and becomes just another typical business competition between two industrial giants without any emotional ties, in stark contrast to their myriad of fans. Sony's position in the console space does seem more important to them though as PS3 seems set to become a launch platform for several key concepts - Cell, BluRay, and content distribution if they ever get their online service together.

 

[PC-Engine]

Oh please PCE consumers can't do that now. Consumers can't (aren't supposed to) copy copyright DVDs to their own DVD recordable disc. And most consumers don't even know about Blu-ray and HD-DVD so how do you know what they want?

What are you talking about? There are millions of people copying DVD movies right now. Regardless, having the ability buy HD movies and be able to make a copy of it for your PC or portable player is better than not.

 

[London Geezer]

What are you talking about? There are millions of people copying DVD movies right now.

Millions out of how many?

Regardless, having the ability buy HD movies and be able to make a copy of it for your PC or portable player is better than not.

Sure but in the end, will it matter that much?
Copying DVDs is much less "mainstream" than you think. Unless you think that the majority of people buying DVDs make a copy or copy the DVDs on their hard drives, which is laughable.

 

[Carl B]

What are you talking about? There are millions of people copying DVD movies right now.

Wait... legally?

 

[PC-Engine]

Wait... legally?

If people are willing to copy DVDs illegaly, that means demand for that pratice is there.This is where legal copying like that allowed by MMC comes in.

Copying DVDs is much less "mainstream" than you think. Unless you think that the majority of people buying DVDs make a copy or copy the DVDs on their hard drives, which is laughable.

Nobody said it was mainstream. In fact that's not even the point. The point is people do not want to buy multiple copies of a movie just so they can play it in their bedroom vs their living room vs their portable. MMC allows them to do this.

 

[Carl B]

If people are willing to copy DVDs illegaly, that means demand for that pratice is there.This is where legal copying like that allowed by MMC comes in.

Sure, but it's that very desire to stem the illegal copying that has Hollywood coming to blu-ray right now. And frankly, that makes sense to me. If I were Hollywood, it would certainly be my modus operendi.

 

[PC-Engine]

Sure, but it's that very desire to stem the illegal copying that has Hollywood coming to blu-ray right now. And frankly, that makes sense to me. If I were Hollywood, it would certainly be my modus operendi.

You are not Hollywood so why should you care about restricting content copying?

 

[MechanizedDeath]

The bottom line is that DVD copies are technically illegal. Why else did they incorporate Macromedia encryption to stop copies to VHS? That we have DVD copying software readily available is a byproduct of the hacker scene more than any consent from the studios.

The bottom line to the companies is that they don't want this backdoor open to the consumer. It's understandable from the studios' perspective, no matter how much I personally disagree with it. For dollars and sense, it's just asking for someone to crack the encryption and once again make blockbuster host to thousands of cheap movies. With BD already boasting write capability as its main selling point, and the presence of rewriteable DL-BD already, it means that consumers will have access to master-quality copies of studio productions from pretty much Day1. Gee...that's a backdoor left unlocked and unguarded IMO. Once the encrpytion is cracked, you'll already have every torrent site from here to Hong Kong sitting on hundreds or thousands of copies of these movies just waiting to your street vendor to burn at full quality and sell on the cheap.

I don't agree with it, b/c I love cheap movies. But I'm not gonna pretend it's not a major issue for the studios who already pretend that piracy is killing their wallets. If it gets the studios on-board, it's a no-brainer for the BDA to incorporate that safeguard into their format.

IMO, the MMC issue has now become the rally cry for the HD-DVD supporters b/c the price argument is getting beaten bloody. That was the previous complaint this summer, despite knowing of these other aspects before. Since Matsushita has recently made that a non-issue (as many of us predicted it would be), the MMC argument has taken center stage. HD-DVD is dead. Good riddance. I don't think it's unfair to say that either. It was the inferior product from the technical standpoint, and a protracted format war would have been far, FAR worse for the consumer than any of this manage copy bs anyway. If you care about MMC so much, take comfort in knowing that there are far more hackers/crackers than BDA engineers. It will be broken in the fullness of time, and with the ability to support full movies in the new tv standard that will last for decades, you'll eventually be able to back up all your movies (albeit illegally) in full quality. As it it even matters. PEACE.

 

[Edge]

> "NEC Electronics Corp., a semiconductor subsidiary of NEC Corp, supports the HD-DVD format but has also joined Blu-ray promotion group, the company officials said. Since both Sony and Toshiba are key NEC customers, the manufacturer has indicated its readiness to adopt both formats."

That's not enough to sway PC-Engine, as NEC is still going forward with HD-DVD. PC-Engine sees danger in Blu-ray, as it opposes Microsoft's Xbox 360 plans (GPU daughter die is manufactured by NEC), so that's another reason to oppose Blu-ray.

Rabid supporter of Nintendo over the years because they manufacture the GPU for the Gamecube.

I have never seen the guy have a reasonable argument with anyone on this forum, or the other forum I belonged to with him, that involves NEC. I have no problems with someone being a fan of NEC products, but to argue so unreasonable about it all the time, really is something.

 

[DemoCoder]

DVD was a huge success, and most people never made copies of DVDs. Hence, the crying about *mandatory* MC by HDDVD supporters is a canard. If people truly want it, they will either a) shop for BR movies and recorders with MC enabled or b) search for the inevitable freeware hacker utilities to make copies (what is done today)

BR is technically superior on all fronts, so regardless of what the consumers want now, or realize now, if we're going to lock everyone into another standard for 10 years, may as well pick the better one.

The optional MC issue isn't a deal breaker for the format, since most of the benefits come from other aspects, not the DRM. Consumers have not been dying for a DVD replacement because of DRM.

All in all, I'd rather not have DRM at all.